E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

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DIESEL IS THE FUTUERE.


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crzycav86
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GTR PrYdE wrote:yep, a walbro 255 is plenty for up to about 500whp, no need for an external pump either. most guys get a double pumper in-tank setup for 500+
walbro 255 might flow enough for 500hp with gasoline, but e85 is not gasoline. e85 kat's require more fuel than gasoline for the same power numbers.

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WDRacing
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E85 + SAFC = pump gas or E85 since it can store 2 seperate tunes.

You will need more then a 255lph pump to run 500 on E85. But dropping in two isn't that difficult. I would just assume run twin MSD pumps externally mounted.

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Swedish Mike
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Just wanted to post a thought about the media talk.

The big gasoline companies controls a lot in this world, I never trust anything I see on TV these days and this is one thing I wont accept.I´m 100% sure the gas companies will do all in their power to stop E85 and other new ideas.

A year ago you could read test´s regarding E85 and how good it is and now when many people use it, you hear the opposite.Pure BS in my ears.

If you are a gas lover and refuse to use E85 daily, at least give it a chanse in your race car. Use it as a pure race fuel.
Modified by Swedish Mike at 2:21 PM 5/20/2007

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WDRacing
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Mike don't you know that using E85 gives you cancer!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Swedish Mike
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WDRacing wrote:Mike don't you know that using E85 gives you cancer!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Haha, yeah, yeah...

A guy over here tried to commit suicide using a hose from the exhaust and into the car.He tried for hours but nothing happened and finally gave up. Later he understood why he failed, he forgot that he had a E85 car!

Read this in a news mag a while ago.

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GTR PrYdE
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I stand corrected. I thought I saw results of it, but I tried finding it with no luck. double pumper it is for 500+, but what to do about injectors...higher than 1000cc's, driveability goes to crap...

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GTR PrYdE
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WDRacing wrote:Its easy, remove intank fuel pump, buy MSD external fuel pump for $100, fill up with E85. Run 370's with a stock ecu in NA form, add bigger injectors and a controller with boost. No timing retard needed since it's 104 octane at the minimum.

Hows that?
walbro, 370s, e85, all on a kat? what turbo did you have in mind for this setup?and no timing adjusments whatsoever? im currently gathering parts for a t25 kat, so this is VERY appealing to me. thanks

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The 370's will run with E85 on the stock ecu since the E85 requires so much more fuel to run at stoich. The timing won't need to be retarded since you're running 104 octane and you can safely run 5 psi on a completely stock KA so running E85 should be just as easy.

Bare in mind that this is just some basic theory I whipped up in like 15 seconds, but it's sound.

Might as well try it out...

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crzycav86 wrote:
walbro 255 might flow enough for 500hp with gasoline, but e85 is not gasoline. e85 kat's require more fuel than gasoline for the same power numbers.
I'm going to see how high the 255 can flow with E85. im at 22psi already but my act xtreme clutch is slipping real bad it cant handle 430+ wtq ( i am throwing a rb20 flywheel and jwt 350z clutch in tomorrow so i am going to see what it takes to max this pump out. then i got a supra pump i am going to throw in (290lph)

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GTR PrYdE
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what do yall use to read knock?

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WDRacing
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I have the MSD Knock Alert.

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Get a J&S Safeguard and be done worrying about knock for EVER ...

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Swedish Mike
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GTR PrYdE wrote:what do yall use to read knock?
If you want to tune a lot of cars and fast ones, get a microphone and head set knock guard.The only way to be 100%, many electronic knock devices miss the small and dangerous detonations.

The only downside is that you only use it for tuning, not mounted in the car.

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Swedish Mike wrote:
If you want to tune a lot of cars and fast ones, get a microphone and head set knock guard.The only way to be 100%, many electronic knock devices miss the small and dangerous detonations.

The only downside is that you only use it for tuning, not mounted in the car.
Thats true Mike, except with the J&S he uses an actual sonar type device so it works a little bit differently, it basically detects it before it even happens.

I know sounds kinda weird but it works.

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Swedish Mike
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S13FX wrote:Thats true Mike, except with the J&S he uses an actual sonar type device so it works a little bit differently, it basically detects it before it even happens.

I know sounds kinda weird but it works.
Never heard of it but sounds like a nice piece. Probably detect the knocks at early stage, you can hear the same thing in the headset type, you hear them build up and can stop them before it happens.

We tested a few cheap knock detectors a few years ago and they couldn´t tell the difference between a knock and angry cams pounding. Red light all the way.

One small knock can kill the engine and many devices on the market need one knock to react, that´s the bad part.


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It has a built in MAP sensor. So it senses boost also. You can set a preset boost level to retard the timing at, and it has the knock sensing timing retard also. So you can run different retard amounts at different boost levels.It also uses a sonar type sensor to detect knock before it even happens.

Thats just a little bit from the description. I read somewhere that the guy that invented this used to be some sort of a sonar tech in th Air Force.

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Swedish Mike
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S13FX wrote:It has a built in MAP sensor. So it senses boost also. You can set a preset boost level to retard the timing at, and it has the knock sensing timing retard also. So you can run different retard amounts at different boost levels.It also uses a sonar type sensor to detect knock before it even happens.

Thats just a little bit from the description. I read somewhere that the guy that invented this used to be some sort of a sonar tech in th Air Force.
Cool, I got to read more about this. Never heard the word sonar before.

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Actually the J&S safegaurd is pretty cool. I used it for a while but it kept picking up engine noise as knock ( nissan sensor ) I never did try the bosch sensor ( which is what they recommend if I remember correctly). These only pull timing from the cylender that is knocking and not the whole engine. You can read more about it here.

jandssafeguard.com

Back to E85....

We were using AN-6 fuel feed line, dual walbros and it maxed out The feed line at 560WHP. Another setup was dual pump AN-8 feed line with stock return on a 2.0 and they were making 660 whp.So I am not sure how far stock lines will let it go. With 1 pump and stock lines I have seen 396whp. Now, maybe running a bigger fuel feed line will make more power with a single pump, I dunno but maybe worth a shot.

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sstomek
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sstomek wrote:anyone running on e85 with their own tune willing to post it up along with a description of what you changed?
and maybe some dyno numbers?

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240sxmech
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Great post by the way . So maybe someone can answer my questions, I have an 06 chevy silverado crew cab that is pump gas and e-85 compatable.Now if i fill up with e-85 i dont have to change anything or hit any switches i can just add it when ever, empty tank ,half full tank it doesnt matter.So why are you guys saying you have to change your tune for the e-85 or get bigger injectors when i dont have to do anything to mine. Mine runs on the same tune and the same injectors. Please elabarate on this,not sure about the spelling of that word. Thanx

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GTR PrYdE
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240sxmech wrote:Great post by the way . So maybe someone can answer my questions, I have an 06 chevy silverado crew cab that is pump gas and e-85 compatable.Now if i fill up with e-85 i dont have to change anything or hit any switches i can just add it when ever, empty tank ,half full tank it doesnt matter.So why are you guys saying you have to change your tune for the e-85 or get bigger injectors when i dont have to do anything to mine. Mine runs on the same tune and the same injectors. Please elabarate on this,not sure about the spelling of that word. Thanx
well in new GM cars that are flex fuel, they are already tuned for both fuels, and you can have any blend of gas and e85. in our cars, converted for e85- you can only have one fuel or the other- not much of a blend. megasquirt has a GM sensor to use different blends, making a megasquirt tuned car "flex fuel"

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Yep they have a sensor build in that senses what you use. Very simple.

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Swedish Mike
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Some brands use a wideband lambda sensor to tell the difference, best way IMO, the tank sensors often fail in the Ford cars.

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Edub1
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240sxmech wrote:Great post by the way . So maybe someone can answer my questions, I have an 06 chevy silverado crew cab that is pump gas and e-85 compatable.Now if i fill up with e-85 i dont have to change anything or hit any switches i can just add it when ever, empty tank ,half full tank it doesnt matter.So why are you guys saying you have to change your tune for the e-85 or get bigger injectors when i dont have to do anything to mine. Mine runs on the same tune and the same injectors. Please elabarate on this,not sure about the spelling of that word. Thanx
The question is, why would you want to. It's only cost effective when used as race fuel - it offers no other advantage except making a handfull of people rich and allowing the auto makers to circumvent the CAFE standards and produce gas guzzling SUVs.

I learned recently that many people in Mexico can not afford corn tortillas any more because of this ethanol scam. Think of how many food products are made from corn - all of these are doubling in price. It's horrible.

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great replies thats exactly what i wanted to find out was how my truck new if i had e85 in it .

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Quote »The fuel composition sensor (FCS), also known as the flex fuel sensor, measures the ethanol to gasoline ratio of the fuel in the fuel line to the injectors. Flexible fuel vehicles can be operated with a blend of ethanol and gasoline, up to 85 percent ethanol. To optimize the ignition timing and the fuel injection amount, the MegaSquirt requires information about the percentage of ethanol in the fuel.

The fuel sensor uses a microprocessor to measure the ethanol percentage and fuel temperature, which it uses to produce and output signal. The fuel sensor signal is a square-wave voltage signal. The signal varies in both frequency and pulse width:

The frequency of the signal indicates the ethanol percentage. The output frequency is linear with respect to the percentage of ethanol content in the fuel. The PCM provides an internal pull-up to five volts on the signal circuit, and the fuel sensor pulls the 5 volts to ground in pulses. The normal range of operating frequency is between 50 and 150 Hertz: 50 Hertz indicates 0% ethanol, and 150 Hertz indicates 100% ethanol.

The pulse width indicates the fuel temperature. The normal pulse width is between 1 and 5 milliseconds: 1 millisecond indicates -40°C (-40°F), and 5 milliseconds indicates 125°C (257°F). [/quote]

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Edub1 wrote:
The question is, why would you want to. It's only cost effective when used as race fuel - it offers no other advantage except making a handfull of people rich and allowing the auto makers to circumvent the CAFE standards and produce gas guzzling SUVs.

I learned recently that many people in Mexico can not afford corn tortillas any more because of this ethanol scam. Think of how many food products are made from corn - all of these are doubling in price. It's horrible.
Well first off, E85 would be a lot nicer for people to use that only run between 7 to 14 psi, and don't really want to worry about TIMING, which seems to be a big issue among a lot of KA-t'ers,

Second of all I do agree with you that you don't save a penny using E85 over normal pump gas, but it is still a nice option to have..

Third of all who cares what the freaking price of a tortilla is in Mexico.

This is a car forum and we are in America (although I fully understand that there is people in other countries visiting the forum which is a GREAT thing BUT) we have much bigger problems to worry about here in America then the fact of how much someone has to pay for their food in other countries.

On that note if you want to get your self some inexpensive race fuel I say go straight for E85. It is not hard at all now days to have two differ maps ready to go, in case you can't put something other then E85 in your car.

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Edub1 wrote:
The question is, why would you want to. It's only cost effective when used as race fuel - it offers no other advantage except making a handfull of people rich and allowing the auto makers to circumvent the CAFE standards and produce gas guzzling SUVs.

I learned recently that many people in Mexico can not afford corn tortillas any more because of this ethanol scam. Think of how many food products are made from corn - all of these are doubling in price. It's horrible.
Hey bro...I've defended you when it's come to bringing up various options that have gone against conventional thinking, don't be a hipocrit.

Honestly, I could give a crap about every other country on the entire planet. I'm an American...period dot. Am I prejudice...you bet your a$$ I am, I hate stupid. I think all stupid people should jump into a huge woodchipper and I'll throw the switch myself...hell you can send me the electric bill.

Give me a friggin break, DO NOT talk about BS like that in MY forum when we're talking about the cheapest race fuel to be offered in this country at the moment...thats just simple fact.


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