E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

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PapaSmurf2k3
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swedish mike, do you have AIM? Id like to talk to you about Volvo's descision to use a mitsubishi direct injection motor, and the possibilities of E85 with direct injection.


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Swedish Mike
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PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:swedish mike, do you have AIM? Id like to talk to you about Volvo's descision to use a mitsubishi direct injection motor, and the possibilities of E85 with direct injection.
No AIM, sorry. The Mitsu GDI engine is only used in a few models of S/V40.Way to complicated injection to convert, wouldn´t do it.

The big main pump on the engine is very fragile and often break, E85 would probably jam it.Also hard to give it more fuel, special injectors and impossible to adjust fuel pressure since this is made in the pump.

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Swedish Mike wrote:
No AIM, sorry.
damn, oh well. I wasn't considering converting on a KA, just theory in general. I just think E85 would be a better route to go with because of lower combustion temperatures, and one of the main problems with direct injectors is that they are burning up. Also, with direct injection its capable of running an AFR of 65:1 with gasoline, and was wondering the possibilites of AFR with E85, and its effects on turbo applications. The future of internal combustion engines should be cool... now only if they dont gay up everything around the motor (body, etc)this is the best thing nissan has released since the 350z:http://www.nissanusa.com/altimaCoupe/

S13FX
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I fixed my ECU E85 Is a go my friends I repeat E85 is a go.

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Spike240SX
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ok so what happened here. i started my own thread about my E85 project and it made its way into here? im lost! no moderator post or anything telling me they did it!

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Swedish Mike
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Spike240SX wrote:ok so what happened here. i started my own thread about my E85 project and it made its way into here? im lost! no moderator post or anything telling me they did it!
Haha, I´m totally lost as well.

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WDRacing
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Just relax, I merged the two threads because you were simply reposting info we had already discussed in a thread we started a week before your "project" thread started.

There is no sense having two exactly the same threads going on at once. This is a family and we work as a team, there's no need to feel you have to have your own thread. By working together and sharing idea's we'll be able to come up with the best methods for what is already the same goal.

The other reason I did this is simple. I've been modding Nico for just over 4 years. I've seen some great threads simply slip by the way side that contained really good information. I didn't want that to happen here, so I merged the two threads in hopes of having one really good final product. I want other websites linking here because we rock.

If you honestly have an issue, I'll be more then happy to discuss things over AIM, I'm WDRacin, or email me [email protected]

WD

S13FX
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Now how about some pictures of the E85 Power house MU HAHAHAHA

http://www.oakton.edu/user/~mnowosielski/turbo/

More pictures of fuel line setup and fuel pump setup coming up, also a complete write up of how Im going to tune it too. Just gotta gimme some time cause my eprom burner is kicking my *** right now lol.

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Spike240SX
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no its all good. it just kinda threw me a curve ball but no big deal.

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WDRacing
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I have some very good info coming and lots of ideas for tuning.

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Swedish Mike
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Just read about our touring car championship (STCC), they will all use E85 for 2007. Really cool!

2 litre limit, 8500 rpm limit and now running 300 bhp.

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WDRacing
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Did they have any details about running the E85, like why they are running it etc? How about a Link Mike?

WD

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Swedish Mike
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WDRacing wrote:Did they have any details about running the E85, like why they are running it etc? How about a Link Mike?

WD
Nope, read it in a magazine. The STCC engines are top secret stuff, even if I had a link they wouldn´t tell or show pics.Many brands and they all want the wildest engine.The Volvo Team even promised more power using E85, I think they use 108 octane race fuel now.

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Swedish Mike
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About E85, what do you think about this E85 road car, 75-190 mph pretty fast?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anWyryJXr-A

S13FX
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Pure sexiness. God why did I ever have to get my car totaled oh well time to make the RB20 E85

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GTR PrYdE
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Im eagerly awaiting e85, a guy on the evo forums is pushing 510whp daily with a 35r and e85 fuel only! He made 475whp on 93+alky. An awesome gain over straight 93. Cheap Racegas thats eco-friendly FTW!

EDIT: This is on a very low reading mustang dyno. Add about 15-20% ad it'll be close to dynojet numbers.

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crzycav86
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hey guys, my professor for our f-sae program gets 30 free sae reports. he only wants 10, so he offered us to request some papers of interest.

if you guys find any interesting articles on e85, i will forward the request over to him, and we'll see if he can get them.

sae paper search engine is here: http://www.sae.org/jsp/jsps/advancesearch.jsp

just link up the ones you think might be helpful in this discussion.

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Kaleo55
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I don't know how I missed this thread, but it's by far one of the very best I read on Nico in terms of really intelligent, worth while information being exchanged. Keep this going. My engine builder was very keen on E85 as a realistic fuel alternative and encouraged me to look into to. Thanks for the stimulating dialog, props to you all!

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WDRacing
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Its upsetting really, Mike was so close to converting when he wrecked his S13. I won't have a car running for quite some time.

With E85 you can run very aggressive mapping and make gobs of power at a low boost before you even think about retarding timing.

I was actually thinking about going with a high compression KA and using E85 to facilitate a low boost setup. Say 8 psi max...

That would make for a very fun car to drive everyday.

CrazyInteg
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Car is a 1991. Are my fuel tank and fuel lines going to be okay? I read OBD2 cars are good to go, but what about older ones? Anyone looked into this?

FYI, Im talking about the line from the gas tank to the motor that runs under the car.

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What exactly are you trying to achieve here, your post is very vague. Give me some more information, like your setup and stuff so we can help you out.

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WDRacing
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I just read an article about a guy with an 86 or 87 Mustang 5.0 thats been running E85 for the last 9 months straight. Other then tuning and adding big injectors and running twin fuel pumps, in tank even, he's had not one issue. I'm thinking pure ethonal is very corrosive, the 15% gasoline must be just enough to keep everything lubed.

I'll be running it once I finish my move to TX in Oct.

WD

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S13FX wrote:What exactly are you trying to achieve here, your post is very vague. Give me some more information, like your setup and stuff so we can help you out.
I'm sorry, I thought I was very clear. I have a 1991 US Market Nissan 240sx. It is a 5 speed.My question pertains to the corrosiveness of alcohol in the above mentioned model automobile. Will the fuel lines that run from the gas tank to the engine, as well as the fuel tank itself, stand up to the corrosiveness of fuel consisting of a maximum of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline?

I can't get much more detailed than that.

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They will stand up just fine, but if you wanted to, new rubber lines are really cheap to run.

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sstomek
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Hey all,

After some very basic math and a tad bit of research here are some approximate financial numbers you will be looking at when goin E85.

In terms of what I would pay per year for fuel

Gasoline - $1200E85 - $1142

here is the equation I used:

[(Weekly Miles x 52) / Miles per Gallon] x Cost of Fuel = How much money you spend on fuel per year

For Gasoline I used 25 MPG which is what auto trader says a 1990 240SX gets on highway. (NOT THE MPG OF A KA-T)

E85 requires 30% more fuel in order to get to the same level as Gasoline. And these are in terms of WOT which you wont always be at. **NEVC (National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition) claims that there will be a 10-15% drop in fuel economy** So actual daily driving conditions will raise the MPG which will lower the annual cost. Anyways I used 30% to be safe and a 30% drop in fuel economy from 25MPG is 17.5 MPG

For miles i used roughly 200 miles per week and rounded it off to about 10,000 miles a year for easy math since i didn't have a calculator.

So really that number is the "theoretical" estimate of the most one would pay for E85 a year.

Of course these are ideal and theoretical conditions in which the price of gas will never rise or drop. And the E85 price is different in every state. I happen to live in Illinois where gas is $3.00/gallon and E85 is $2.00/gallon. Which is why i gave an equation that you guys could play around and adjust according to the MPG you have recorded in your car and how much gas costs by you. The only way we will get SOLID numbers is to get an E85 240 up and running.

Only thing I am unsure of is my calculation of the MPG for E85 but it seems logical.

Can we get this thread started up again? Hopefully this will put some life back into it but as much fun as it is to talk about the politics of fuel in America it isnt very productive so lets try and stay on the subject of what is involved in converting a 240 into an E85 machine.

-Tomek


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sstomek
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also here is what the NEVC says about the misconception of ethanol taking more energy to produce than the energy we get out of it.

Does it take more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than the energy we get out of it?

Response:

No. This has been a common misconception of the ethanol industry, that it takes more energy to make ethanol than is available to the final consumer. Remember, ethanol is produced from plant matter, today dominated by corn, wheat, potatoes, sorgum, etc. Plants grow through the use of energy provided by the sun and are a renewable resources. In the future, ethanol will be produced from waste products or "energy crops." In fact, a partner of the NEVC, BC International (BCI), is currently constructing an ethanol production plant in Louisiana that will use sugar cane waste to produce ethanol. Additionally, BCI is considering the establishment of ethanol production facilities in California that would use the waste hulls from rice growers and wood waste from the forrest industry to produce ethanol. Energy crops such as perennial switch grasses, timothy, and other high-output/low-input crops will be used in the future.

Current research prepared by Argonne National Laboratory (a U.S. Department of Energy Laboratory), indicates a 38% gain in the overall energy input/output equation for the corn-to-ethanol process. That is, if 100 BTUs of energy is used to plant corn, harvest the crop, transport it, etc., 138 BTUs of energy is available in the fuel ethanol. Corn yields and processing technologies have improved significantly over the past 20 years and they continue to do so, making ethanol production less and less energy intensive.

Here is a link to their FAQ, pretty interesting stuff. But then again this is like asking AMS if their products are good, of course they are gonna say yes even if its just to sell their products (hehe j/k) but you guys see what im saying. I havent found an unbiased source yet but this is a good start. Anyways here is the link

http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/questions.php

-Tomek
Modified by sstomek at 3:22 PM 4/27/2007

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WDRacing
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All of my forced unbduction vehicles will be run on E85. Think no timing retard and 10-15psi of boost on almost any engine.

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sstomek
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WDRacing wrote:All of my forced unbduction vehicles will be run on E85. Think no timing retard and 10-15psi of boost on almost any engine.
yea I really am interested in getting my 240 running on E85 but first we gotta finish b00sting it.

Let's hear the detailed plans you have to get your next 240 running on E85. Screw it I want your next post to be a 240SX E85 How-To with easy to read steps, pictures, and links to other sites/resources

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WDRacing
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Its easy, remove intank fuel pump, buy MSD external fuel pump for $100, fill up with E85. Run 370's with a stock ecu in NA form, add bigger injectors and a controller with boost. No timing retard needed since it's 104 octane at the minimum.

Hows that?

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sstomek
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perfect, close this thread up


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