I haven’t looked, but I’m guessing it’s around brown and soupy looking.VStar650CL wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:14 amHow nasty is the fluid? If it's brown and full of clutch material then fresh fluid with fresh detergent could cause big problems. We call that "ATF soup" and it's hopeless, just leave it alone till something breaks. If it's still reddish and reasonably transparent, then a spill-and-fill should be beneficial.
That's right as far as it goes, but the problem isn't with the bands and clutches, it's with the valving. All tranny fluids have high detergency, and changing the fluid on a soupy trans has the same effect on the VB that flushing a sludge motor has on engine seals. Dirt was holding the seals together and suddenly they all leak. Except, when a trans valve leaks internally, it doesn't show up on the garage floor, it shows up in a tranny that quits moving. That said, there's a big difference between just "burned-and-brown" and soupy. Brown fluid should be changed, brown and opaque fluid should be left alone. The OP should really take a look and not assume anything.Mike W. wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:54 pm#2. It might make you cringe, but fluid change is good, even high miles. Grit, which is what overused ATF has in it, does not promote correct friction characteristics between the clutch plates. Think about this, the tranny was designed to have clutch plates with friction material on them to interact with either the same or plain steel plates, with clean fluid. If you throw sand in there (grit, wear components) it's not going to act right.
I don’t plant to buy any cleaners, I just want to flush out the old ATF w new ATF. If I just do that, would the tranny be ok?Mike W. wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:54 pm#1. Nobody, besides those selling it, seem to recommend flushes.
#2. It might make you cringe, but fluid change is good, even high miles. Grit, which is what overused ATF has in it, does not promote correct friction characteristics between the clutch plates. Think about this, the tranny was designed to have clutch plates with friction material on them to interact with either the same or plain steel plates, with clean fluid. If you throw sand in there (grit, wear components) it's not going to act right.
New ATF is highly detergent and highly solvent. With a crappy trans, you take your chances.PATHFINDER99NI wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:39 amI don’t plant to buy any cleaners, I just want to flush out the old ATF w new ATF. If I just do that, would the tranny be ok?
Agreed. Flushing is pretty uniformly a bad idea.
Ok, I just checked and the fluid is a CLEAR reddish brown. I was absolutely surprised for how long it’s been and as hard as I drive it.VStar650CL wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:14 amHow nasty is the fluid? If it's brown and full of clutch material then fresh fluid with fresh detergent could cause big problems. We call that "ATF soup" and it's hopeless, just leave it alone till something breaks. If it's still reddish and reasonably transparent, then a spill-and-fill should be beneficial.
Clear is good, still-reddish is even better. Just spill-and-fill and change the filter, don't flush. Back-flushing dislodges whatever crud is in there and puts some of it back in circulation, forward-flushing using the trans cooler lines is healthier but can still cavitate the front pump and cause problems. Trust me and Mike on this, flushing is bad.PATHFINDER99NI wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:27 amOk, I just checked and the fluid is a CLEAR reddish brown. I was absolutely surprised for how long it’s been and as hard as I drive it.
So I guess it’s time for a flush.
Yes, by flushing, I meant that I’d attach a reservoir of clean ATF (just ATF, no additional detergent) to one cooler line and then attach the other to a clear hose emptying into a bucket. You’re saying not to do this?VStar650CL wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:38 amClear is good, still-reddish is even better. Just spill-and-fill and change the filter, don't flush. Back-flushing dislodges whatever crud is in there and puts some of it back in circulation, forward-flushing using the trans cooler lines is healthier but can still cavitate the front pump and cause problems. Trust me and Mike on this, flushing is bad.PATHFINDER99NI wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:27 amOk, I just checked and the fluid is a CLEAR reddish brown. I was absolutely surprised for how long it’s been and as hard as I drive it.
So I guess it’s time for a flush.