Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having problems

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kev510
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Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having problems

Postby kev510 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:05 pm

Hi everyone,

I would like your opinion about a problem I am having with my 07 M35x. 7 months ago, I got a transmission flush from the dealership (126,000mi at that time). I told them that I don't know if the transmission oil had ever been changed because I bought the car used. Before the flush, there was absolutely ZERO sign of problems, jerky shifting, or hesitation. After the flush, I noticed that the transmission was shifting much more harshly, but I just thought it needed some time to break in with the new fluid.

A month/600 miles went by; the tranny was still jerky and it just didn't feel right. I called them and they assured me that nothing they did would have caused this problem and they didn't want to do anything about it. If I brought it in (the dealership is 60 miles away), they would have just driven it for 5 minutes and said that everything was ok.

Fast forward to today (6,000 mi after flush). The transmission now shudders a bit in 5th gear, with around 5-15% engine load. It still shifts very hard during low gear shifting when the engine is cold. There is also some hesitation between gear changes, but not all the time.

I've been hearing from a lot of people that the mistake was getting a flush instead of drain & fill. The dealership did not advise against it or even warn me of the potential problems that could be caused by flushing a 7-year old transmission with 125k miles on it. I know I can't prove that the flush directly caused those symptoms, but is there any leverage I can use to be compensated in any way because they performed something that is highly advised against doing? Are there any additives I can add to the transmission to simulate an old fluid (just like they have high mileage engine oils)?


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svard75
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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby svard75 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:16 pm

It's possible that the flush was never performed before and there's some gunk stuck in the valvebody. I would go back and ask them to redo the flush. Unfortunately you'll have to pay again but it's still cheaper than a new transmission. This time when they flush shift through all your positions and Rev a bit.

kev510
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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby kev510 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:20 pm

Would you mind explaining?
svard75 wrote:It's possible that the flush was never performed before and there's some gunk stuck in the valvebody. I would go back and ask them to redo the flush. Unfortunately you'll have to pay again but it's still cheaper than a new transmission. This time when they flush shift through all your positions and Rev a bit.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby CPJ LB » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:25 pm

another thing, have you checked to see if the transmission fluid was properly 'topped off'?? I have a habit of checking things even after an oil/fluid change. When doing so, make sure the transmission fluid is at operating temp, and with the car running and in Park, check the transmission dip stick....

with my tranny, I also use Lucas Oil Transmission fluid conditioner: http://lucasoil.com/products/problem-so ... onditioner

I've used this stuff on all of my cars after performing tranny fluid changes....I'm almost nearing 150K on my M....

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby kev510 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:29 pm

Thank you! I'll check those two things and post results
CPJ LB wrote:another thing, have you checked to see if the transmission fluid was properly 'topped off'?? I have a habit of checking things even after an oil/fluid change. When doing so, make sure the transmission fluid is at operating temp, and with the car running and in Park, check the transmission dip stick....

with my tranny, I also use Lucas Oil Transmission fluid conditioner: http://lucasoil.com/products/problem-so ... onditioner

I've used this stuff on all of my cars after performing tranny fluid changes....I'm almost nearing 150K on my M....

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby svard75 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:55 am

If this was the first time a flush was performed on the vehicle since new then it missed 2 flushes by now. I believe it's every 40k miles. Think about how how badly overused the oil would be by the time you perform the flush. Then flush connects to the transmission cooling lines inlet and outlet and they are supposed to run the car while the machine pumps fresh oil in and extracts the old oil out. If the oil has never been changed before the oil filter must be replaced and the magnets cleaned. Performing this process requires them to perform again if the fluids are not completely clean once done. If they used a fluid exchange unit they can watch the color of the fluid coming out but again if it was never performed the filter may be slowly releasing clumped oil and microscopic derbis back into the valve body blocking the oil from properly applying pressure to the band's. I've read many transmission failures are related to clogged valves and symptoms begin similarly to what you described. Of course worst case the electronics or solenoids may have also failed but I'm thinking try the cheaper stuff first.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby CPJ LB » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:09 am

^ Agreed!! It's amazing how clogged the transmission can get... As with my current and prior vehicles, I'd make sure to complete at least 2 tranny drain/refills before performing the tranny flush.

I always tried to get a BG Tranny Flush as my first option rather than the dealer. It was more cost effective.

http://www.bgfindashop.com/bgservices/transmission.htm

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby LouCast » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:00 am

If the dealership preformed a flush then they are liable for whatever problems you are experiencing now. Nissan sent out a TSB in 2010 not to preform flushes on any of their cars, and Infiniti has it as well. Plenty of Armadas and Titans, and G's and M's transmissions had to be replaced by Nissan of North America because of this. The flush of the trans would cause any material and shavings from inside the trans to be clogged up inside the valvebody, and since Nissan in all of its infinite wisdom decided a long time ago to marry the valve body to the TCU and ECU, that is why you can't use the valve body of an identical model car or valve body from a different same trans to your current car. They immediately sent out a memo to stop doing flushes instead preform fluid transfers. Now if your receipt says transmission flush you can win the argument and contact Nissan of North America and have them handle it, but if it says trans fluid drop and fill or fluid transfer or something to that affect, and no mention of flush then you have a hard case. But I am willing to bet that this dealership did the power flush since your transmission is acting up now. Good luck.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby kev510 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:39 am

Thank you for the information.

What's weird is that the receipt says "PERFORM TRANNY FLUSH - COMPLETED TRANSMISSION FLUSH", but on the bottom of it, it only lists 4 qts of transmission oil being used. The manager is saying now that they don't even have a flushing machine. I spoke to two service reps prior to getting the flush to make sure that that it is a FLUSH, not a drain and fill. They also were advertising a promotion for a transmission flush service at that time. If it was a drain & fill, I wouldn't have paid $180 for it and done it by myself at home instead of driving 5 hours in total.

Perhaps they called it a flush, but was a drain & fill? Either way, I'm going to contact Nissan to see what they can do for me. I'll keep you guys updated. Thank you again!

LouCast wrote:If the dealership preformed a flush then they are liable for whatever problems you are experiencing now. Nissan sent out a TSB in 2010 not to preform flushes on any of their cars, and Infiniti has it as well. Plenty of Armadas and Titans, and G's and M's transmissions had to be replaced by Nissan of North America because of this. The flush of the trans would cause any material and shavings from inside the trans to be clogged up inside the valvebody, and since Nissan in all of its infinite wisdom decided a long time ago to marry the valve body to the TCU and ECU, that is why you can't use the valve body of an identical model car or valve body from a different same trans to your current car. They immediately sent out a memo to stop doing flushes instead preform fluid transfers. Now if your receipt says transmission flush you can win the argument and contact Nissan of North America and have them handle it, but if it says trans fluid drop and fill or fluid transfer or something to that affect, and no mention of flush then you have a hard case. But I am willing to bet that this dealership did the power flush since your transmission is acting up now. Good luck.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby Ilya » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:44 am

Definitely go to Infiniti/Nissan corporate.

My local dealer tried to shaft me on a repair of a clunking sound in the suspension and sent a rookie to ride with me to 'hear the noise' (he didn't, guy knew cars less than my sister). I went back again and told them if they don't resolve it there will be a problem. They didn't.

I called HQ, got a case #, emailed it to the manager of that dealership and within hours I got a phone call and a promise to have a senior tech ride with me (we went on a 30 minute ride). The guy almost IMMEDIATELY said, "Yep, something is up."

He found that the streering rack bushings were shot and the whole rack was replaced under warranty.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby svard75 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:12 am

The actual process is to drain inspect the fluid then refill and drain again if dirty then flush. I read it within the FSM hosted here.

I actually performed a few flushes and never had any issues and this was at Mr Lube (Jiffy Lube equivalent in Canada). The risky thing is you have to find the right Mr Lube. This one has an actual senior mechanic on hand supervising all his guys and he's in their faces for almost all visit. It's sad because you see a high turnover but it's great for customers.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby kev510 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:01 am

Do you know where I might be able to find that TSB?
LouCast wrote:If the dealership preformed a flush then they are liable for whatever problems you are experiencing now. Nissan sent out a TSB in 2010 not to preform flushes on any of their cars, and Infiniti has it as well. Plenty of Armadas and Titans, and G's and M's transmissions had to be replaced by Nissan of North America because of this. The flush of the trans would cause any material and shavings from inside the trans to be clogged up inside the valvebody, and since Nissan in all of its infinite wisdom decided a long time ago to marry the valve body to the TCU and ECU, that is why you can't use the valve body of an identical model car or valve body from a different same trans to your current car. They immediately sent out a memo to stop doing flushes instead preform fluid transfers. Now if your receipt says transmission flush you can win the argument and contact Nissan of North America and have them handle it, but if it says trans fluid drop and fill or fluid transfer or something to that affect, and no mention of flush then you have a hard case. But I am willing to bet that this dealership did the power flush since your transmission is acting up now. Good luck.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby Ilya » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:28 am

http://www.infiniti-techinfo.com/TSB/TS ... sbType=TSB
Infiniti-TechInfo.com wrote:Special Automatic Transmission Fluid Requirement
Summary of ITB08022:
If Warranty repairs are being done on a transmission listed in the chart below, the listed fluid must be used. A claim to Infiniti for warranty, service contract, or goodwill repairs to the transmissions listed below may be denied if Genuine Nissan ATFFluid is not used as specified by the part # in this bulletin. If Customer Pay service or repair of the transmissions listed below is done, the fluid type listed in the chart below must be used. Infiniti recommends the Genuine Nissan ATF fluid part# listed in this bulletin be used.
That's the only TSB for ATF I found...

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby LouCast » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:38 am

I'll have to look for it. This TSB was sent out in 09 or 2010. I know they stopped doing the flushes and had a new machine to swap out the trans fluid. Basically a pump attached to the cooler lines, one drawing in new fluid and the other drawing out the old fluid, using the trans oil pump to swap out the fluid. which is basically drop and fill, but at stealership prices.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby svard75 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:54 am

Right it's called a flush. Mr Lube has been doing this for years. They remove the AT cooler line from the passenger side and add the flush machine in series to this line. You start your car and let it idle. The dirty oil will naturally travel to the machine as it pumps clean oil back into the transmission.

In the OP situation if this was the first time performing this service it's risky to just perform this flush service. I think that is why the SM suggests to drain using the plug, fill then repeat if excessively dirty. I would take it a step further and remove the bottom oil pan to clean out the magnets and replace the filter then perform a flush to get all the dirty oil out.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby steve_c » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:13 pm

A few thoughts, if I may....
As one poster replied, check the fluid level, it is important that is not overfilled.
The TSB as I recalled concerned itself with the chemical flush machines which are (were) quite popular a few years ago. It flushed the old fluid out while running a chemical cleaner in, then chased that out with fresh fluid. Infiniti warned the chemical flush could be detrimental to the clutches. They recommended fluid exchange only with no chemical cleaners.
There is no serviceable filter that I know of. If it were my car, I would take a transmission sample & send it out to Blackstone or a similar oil analysis lab to see what the oil breakdown turns up. In the meantime, I would do another transmission drain & fill, making sure to use only NissanMatic fluid. Check fluid level as per FSM afterwards!

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby steve_c » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:27 pm

[quote="kev510"]
What's weird is that the receipt says "PERFORM TRANNY FLUSH - COMPLETED TRANSMISSION FLUSH", but on the bottom of it, it only lists 4 qts of transmission oil being used. The manager is saying now that they don't even have a flushing machine. I spoke to service reps prior to getting the flush to make sure that that it is a FLUSH, not a drain and fill....If it was a drain & fill, I wouldn't have paid $180 for it and done it by myself at home instead of driving 5 hours in total.
Perhaps they called it a flush, but was a drain & fill?

Yes...they called it a flush (AKA full exchange) but you really only got a drain & fill. An exhange/flush would have required 10+quarts. As LouCast pointed out, what your reciept shows is not what you got! 4 qts only covers a drain & fill!
I am thinking they charged you an hour labor at about $120.00, and about $15.00 per quart.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby Mjkkb2 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:20 pm

svard75 wrote:If this was the first time a flush was performed on the vehicle since new then it missed 2 flushes by now. I believe it's every 40k miles. Think about how how badly overused the oil would be by the time you perform the flush. Then flush connects to the transmission cooling lines inlet and outlet and they are supposed to run the car while the machine pumps fresh oil in and extracts the old oil out. If the oil has never been changed before the oil filter must be replaced and the magnets cleaned. Performing this process requires them to perform again if the fluids are not completely clean once done. If they used a fluid exchange unit they can watch the color of the fluid coming out but again if it was never performed the filter may be slowly releasing clumped oil and microscopic derbis back into the valve body blocking the oil from properly applying pressure to the band's. I've read many transmission failures are related to clogged valves and symptoms begin similarly to what you described. Of course worst case the electronics or solenoids may have also failed but I'm thinking try the cheaper stuff first.
It is actually every 60k miles per the book. It also lists flush as an optional service, vs just replacing the fluid which is required by the book at 60k miles.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby seldomseen » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:56 pm

A "portion" drain and fill is much safer than a flush. It's surprising that a dealership would even recommend a flush anymore. If a person gets their transmission flushed, then experiences transmission slippage/stuttering/etc, deductive reasoning points to the cause being the flush. :yesnod

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby CPJ LB » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:34 pm

I called my local dealer to inquire about the flush vs. drain/refill, and they indicated that the flush is still offered. They indicated that the drain/refill will leave about 40% of the old fluid in the torque converter, so the rationale would be to get a few drain/refills done prior to a flush being performed (I think this has been stated already in the thread) -- resulting in a "better" flush being performed.

as far as the dealer charging the OP for a service that wasn't performed, I'd be right back at the dealer ASAP...

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby mexillis » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:45 pm

hmmm I did the flush at 60k, Im now at 120k wondering if i should drain and fill only or if this is just an anomaly with the service done at this dealership, with that tech, ect. OP let us know what happens. Maybe this is an X thing too? So far based on the forum this is the first "problem" Ive seen posted.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby The00Dustin » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:09 am

mexillis wrote:hmmm I did the flush at 60k, Im now at 120k wondering if i should drain and fill only or if this is just an anomaly with the service done at this dealership, with that tech, ect. OP let us know what happens. Maybe this is an X thing too? So far based on the forum this is the first "problem" Ive seen posted.
I agree that this is probably an anomaly. Someone showed up a couple weeks ago saying there is a TSB that says not to flush, but no one has verified the TSB exists. I have a 3rd party mechanic who I recently had do all major services that I do at 60K intervals to my car. For the record, I did a pan drop 30K and 60K miles ago (because this mechanic didn't have a flush machine at that time, my last flush was at the dealership 90K miles ago). My car already had over 170K miles on it at this time, and I mentioned the concern about the transmission flush. The person I spoke with confirmed that their machine connected the way several people in this forum and thread say flushes should occur and only changed out the transmission fluid. He also stated that he had only ever seen a transmission flush appear to cause major problems when there were already minor problems before the flush. Also keep in mind that the OP didn't even have a flush and is apparently having problems after a pan drop.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby DS2009m35x » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:05 am

I had the dealer do a flush at 90k and noticed no difference. I bought the car with 82k miles and it now has 103k. It had impeccable dealer-service history so that might be a difference with some comments regarding routine maintenance or a first time flush at higher mileage. If it adds any value I can document the transmission service history.

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby szh » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:59 pm

I have a powered transmission flush done on my car every 30k miles - using the BG system that my dealer has to cycle through the gears as the fluid is being exchanged (to maximize the fluid exchange).

BTW, remember to insist (particularly with after-market places) on the Nissan J or later fluid for sure though! This has the correct additives for our transmissions.

Always shifts a bit smoother after one of these flushes ... my car now has 158k miles on it.

The complete process uses about 14 quarts as I recall (certainly not 4! :eek:). if the transmission fluid is low, and they only put in 4 quarts, this may explain the problems.

Z

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having prob

Postby steve_c » Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:47 pm

The00Dustin wrote:hmmm......Someone showed up a couple weeks ago saying there is a TSB that says not to flush, but no one has verified the TSB exists.......
That would be me Dustin! I stand corrected, it was not a TSB, it was a PSB (Parts & Service Bulletin # NPSB/07-027 Dec. 10, 2007) I go through so many of these things I forget if they are published as SIB's, TSB's SIL's or PSB's!

I am going to attach the PDF document, hopefully it can be opened, if not you can research it above using the bold face number.

No manufacturer that I know of recommends a chemical flush for their engines/transmissions. In fact, they go out of their way to let you know it can be detrimental! When I do my transmission fluid exchanges, I only use the prescribed OEM Trans. fluid. I go through about 12 quarts in my M before fluid comes out fresh & clear.

Sorry all, I cannot attach a PDF to this post, please surf above PSB above!

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having problems

Postby mohammad » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:12 am

I change the transmission fluid (Lucas CVT fluid!) for my Rogue 2012 AWD and now I am hearing squealing noise at low RPM. The fluid was completely dark and that's why I changed it. Should I do a flush instead? Any comment on this?
I also tried to check the trans fluid while idling. should the fluid be at a higher level in comparison to the condition that the car is not running?

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Re: Dealership did a transmission FLUSH, now I'm having problems

Postby VStar650CL » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:26 pm

mohammad wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:12 am
I change the transmission fluid (Lucas CVT fluid!) for my Rogue 2012 AWD and now I am hearing squealing noise at low RPM. The fluid was completely dark and that's why I changed it. Should I do a flush instead? Any comment on this?
I also tried to check the trans fluid while idling. should the fluid be at a higher level in comparison to the condition that the car is not running?
Sounds like you may have overfilled it, and that's very destructive. There are plenty of threads in here about the right way to get the right level, but in a nutshell, always put in about a quart less than the rated capacity (usually around 5 qts, so you put in 4), then warm the car up fully with several miles of gentle driving, then top up the fluid. Serious overfilling can kill any CVT in under 1000 miles.


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