Daily KA24DET

Your premier source for information on the Turbo KA: KA24E-T and KA24DE-T (KA with aftermarket turbo kit)!
drifter
Posts: 1542
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:57 am
Car: Drifting, cars, etc.
Contact:

Post

Now would I have to run it with an intercooler if I get an old turbo and run about 7 psi on it? Or should I just run an intercooler anyway?


drifter
Posts: 1542
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:57 am
Car: Drifting, cars, etc.
Contact:

Post

Wow, I guess my thread was a good topic : )

User avatar
TrueSlide
Posts: 2130
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 7:07 pm
Car: Stuff

Post

Of course run a intercooler! Grab one cheap from a junkyard.

ka24de_510
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 9:28 am

Post

yeah, an intercooler is a cheap easy way to reduce detonation and get more HP from your turbo without spending much. use one unless you absolutely can't.

mainman
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 8:37 am
Car: Cars, Basketball
Contact:

Post

You can probably find USED FMIC lying around..

I sold my stock FMIC when I had my SR20DET when I gotmy HKS upgrade....

Robin

encasemyheart
Posts: 634
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:29 pm

Post

sorry to bring a topic back from the dead like this, but I had a few questions:

My main question is how much psi will a z31 turbo flow before it becomes inefficient on our cars? I am building a small turbo kit and looking to run no more than 10psi with small time until the turbo is fully spooled.

How much whp can be made with supporting mods at this psi on this turbo?

and...

Does the turbo use the standard t3 flange for the exhaust manifold? This would be preferrable in case I want to upgrade in the future to a larger t3 or t3/t4 for all out performance.

BTW what do you all think of the t28 for our cars? On my old DSM the t25 was ****, especially when it crapped out above 6000rpm. But the t28 upgrade was supposed to flow 350+hp on the 2.0 DSM, where the t25 could only support about 240hp at the very ragged edge.

I would like to flow enough for about 280whp and am looking for the smallest turbo to do the job at about 10psi for sake of spool time.

Thanks for the help.

encasemyheart
Posts: 634
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:29 pm

Post

one othet very quick question: Does the z31 turbo come with it's own internal wastegate? I assume it does, but just making sure.

ziggy682
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:34 pm
Car: 1991 240SX Turbo

Post

encasemyheart wrote:one othet very quick question: Does the z31 turbo come with it's own internal wastegate? I assume it does, but just making sure.


Yes it does.

User avatar
TrunkMonkey
Posts: 3529
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
Car: 2000 lincoln navigator

Post

encasemyheart wrote:I would like to flow enough for about 280whp and am looking for the smallest turbo to do the job at about 10psi for sake of spool time.
a Z31 T3 won't do it. your going to need to push it around 15psi, and iirc, that's it's max.

-demetrius

encasemyheart
Posts: 634
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:29 pm

Post

demcj wrote:a Z31 T3 won't do it. your going to need to push it around 15psi, and iirc, that's it's max.

-demetrius


iirc?

How much whp could I push at 10psi? It seems logical that since I will have everything in the nsport kit which runs 7psi stage 1 and 240whp, that at that same psi with a z31 t3 I could make maybe 225-230whp, with a fuel upgrade at 10psi I could probably hit 255-260whp, from there to my 280hp goal it's just some other supporting mods. i.e. turbo back exhaust, cams, etc. or just go with 12psi instead of 10. Does this make sense to you?

User avatar
WDRacing
Moderator
Posts: 23925
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
Location: MFFO
Contact:

Post

The Z31 turbine will work just fine, I've seen them installed on quite a few RB20's over in Australia.

The turbine is good for around 14 psi of boost, much more then that and it loses serious efficiency.

Being as its a small turbine, you should figure for around a 80 hp increase at 10 psi.

But since the KADET has such a long stroke giving it the 2.4 capacity, The turbine will be hard pressed to keep up after that.

At a boost higher then 10 psi I'd recommend a different turbin. Somthing with a larger impellar and compressor.

WD

Projex240
Posts: 926
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 9:52 pm
Car: Dogs , My RIDE

Post

Im not sure about the efficiency of the t3 z31 turbo. I had one on my motor before i went to a t3/t4. and i pushed 16 pounds on sometime 18, and it still pulled hard. I have a 7500 rev-limit. And i never had any complaints. At 10 psi, i was well over 80 hp to the wheels. At that boost level, I was at 308 rwhp.

Projex240
Posts: 926
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 9:52 pm
Car: Dogs , My RIDE

Post

*80 GAINED hp to the wheel

User avatar
TrunkMonkey
Posts: 3529
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
Car: 2000 lincoln navigator

Post

encasemyheart wrote:iirc?

if i remember correctly

How much whp could I push at 10psi? It seems logical that since I will have everything in the nsport kit which runs 7psi stage 1 and 240whp, that at that same psi with a z31 t3 I could make maybe 225-230whp, with a fuel upgrade at 10psi I could probably hit 255-260whp, from there to my 280hp goal it's just some other supporting mods. i.e. turbo back exhaust, cams, etc. or just go with 12psi instead of 10. Does this make sense to you?

the Z31 T3, or any T3 for that matter, doesn't even come close to the T04B that's offered in the nsport.

you MIGHT (and that's a big might) be able to get close to your goal with supporting mods, but it would be much cheaper, less work, and less of a headache if you went ahead with a larger turbo.

-demetrius

User avatar
WDRacing
Moderator
Posts: 23925
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
Location: MFFO
Contact:

Post

Projex240 wrote:*80 GAINED hp to the wheel


See right up there where it says an 80 hp increase at 10 psi...

The usual average is 8-10 psi for every 1 psi of boost.

WD

encasemyheart
Posts: 634
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:29 pm

Post

okay so I'm better without the z31 turbo, which will not achieve my goals.

Now another question, what's the spool time @ 10psi of a to4b? to4e?

And how much difference is there between a to4e and to4b? The old turbo I had chosed for my old goals (375+whp) was a 60 trim to4e...the lag was probably pretty bad. After getting into autox I want something that spools faster and can give me 280 or so but if the boost is raised can hang with an ls1 on the highway. (maybe 315-320whp) Although spool time is more important, it would just be nice to boost higher and make some real power. Price is also a concern, I can get the to4e for about $600 after doing no searching, so better deals could be out there.

User avatar
WDRacing
Moderator
Posts: 23925
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
Location: MFFO
Contact:

Post

Each of the above turbines can come in different trims, which is to say the turbine wheels come in different sizes. Which majorly effects turbo lag.

I'm quite sure someone will have some #'s on here from there T04 series.

I'll venture to make a guess of 3200rpm for the smaller TO4B.

WD

User avatar
GirlRacerS14
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:48 pm
Car: Cars and motorcycles and racing both of them hard and fast

Post

Well i've got a turbo KA with about 30K on it. My opinion is do some serious engine work first cause once you get into the boost you want more. I'm running a T04E at 7 psi daily, but it's nice to know you can crank it when you want. and having gone through 3 engines i would rather build it up the first time.

User avatar
TrunkMonkey
Posts: 3529
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
Car: 2000 lincoln navigator

Post

how much hp are you making?

-demetrius

User avatar
GirlRacerS14
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:48 pm
Car: Cars and motorcycles and racing both of them hard and fast

Post

i'm honestly not sure about how much hp. i haven't had the chance to take it to a dyno yet but the car runs well. it's really strong and that's important in a daily and i don't lose many races either. :D

User avatar
WDRacing
Moderator
Posts: 23925
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
Location: MFFO
Contact:

Post

LMAO, I hear that 240GIRL. Boost is like Heroin for me, I went through 4 or 5 engines in my Skyline. I just couldn't help turning it up for Friday and Saturday.

Internals are always a good idea.

WD

User avatar
GirlRacerS14
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:48 pm
Car: Cars and motorcycles and racing both of them hard and fast

Post

:help ok i have 2 questions and i'm sure someone here can help.I've got the '96 turbo KA with 30K with the engine built all to hell. One problem though---i divorced my husband who helped me with it some and the car was left in limbo and i need some input on some finishing touches. I understand enough about my car but i'm no mechanic so keep it fairly simple. The engine is built to handle probably whatever boost i want to give it but we didn't refine the air/fuel mixture. i've got an upgraded MAF, FMU, 370 cc injectors and a Walbro fuel pump, but he said it still wasn't safe for high boost. (All that was just to get my daily back on the road running until we finished it up.) And yes it's running rich if you were wondering.... :firedevil

1.) Should i stay with upgraded MAF or get rid of it.and2.) Is it better to have the ECU reprogrammed than using piggybacks and if i did get the ECU done would that be all i would need to turn up the boost since all the upgrades are there?

User avatar
matt0941
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 6:33 pm
Car: Counter-Strike, Cars, Girls (in that order)

Post

Got rid of the old man and you race you say?:boink

1) Why would you want to get RID of your upgraded MAF, the stock won't be able to interperet the air intake of anything more than 260+ whp generally.

2)370CC injectors could possibly be limiting you from boosting higher than 7 (safely), don't go from rich to lean. As for the upgrade of an ECU (I suggest JWT... don't know anyone else really) versus getting a piggyback (preferrably HKS SAFR) I am not really sure how to answer that question, since I was considering doing both at the same time (along with an upgraded MAF which the whole shabang runs about $1,000) I didn't really compare the two.

Anyone please correct me if I am wrong here, and hopefully someone can answer the upgrade versus piggy question.

User avatar
GirlRacerS14
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:48 pm
Car: Cars and motorcycles and racing both of them hard and fast

Post

Ok. I read in another forum that there was a way to eliminate a MAF but i'm probably wrong. But i will of course keep the upgraded one.

So basically, i should get the ECU done and bigger injectors and that should do it?Or do I need that and an SAFC?

User avatar
matt0941
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 6:33 pm
Car: Counter-Strike, Cars, Girls (in that order)

Post

Well the piggyback allows you to constantly adjust your air/fuel ratio. You can go with something cheap like the greddy e-manage (even though it is only 5 point). And yes there is a way to eliminate the MAF. The MAF is the Mass Airflow Sensor, which interperets what your boost will be and adds the correct amount of fuel to the mixture. Standalone systems (eliminating ECUs) are very programmable but can get upwards of $1,000. They use MAPs which are Mass Air _____ CRAP my mind is giving out on me someone fill it in for me. And they can actually tell what the pressure is. As for bigger injectors I am not 100% sure, hopefully someone else will take a look at yer specs and agree/disagree with me. Don't go off buying some larger injectors with that divorce mulah just yet. :D

User avatar
C-Kwik
Moderator
Posts: 9086
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 9:28 pm
Car: 2013 Chevy Volt, 1991 Honda CRX DX

Post

Actually, the Greddy emanage is much more versatile than 5 points. If you get the data cable(a chipped USB cable) and software, along with the injector harness, you can change the fuel maps. With the ignition harness, you can change the timing maps. Both can be tuned in 16x16 resolution.

MAP = Manifold Absolute Pressure

To eliminate the MAF, you would need to convert to a MAP sensor based system. The HKS VPC is a device that does this, but does not have a KA application, is discontinued from what I hear, and is expensive. for the price, you could pay a little more and get a standalone system, or if you want plug and play, you coulf go the JWT route.

240Girl, you would only need the JWT ECU for this since you already have 370 injectors. But I'm thinking you must already have some other way to compensate otherwise you'ld be running very rich. 370 injectors by themselves will allow you to boost to about 10-11 psi depending on the turbo, tuning and fuel octane rating(Some states have as high as 93 regularly available, in CA I have 91). If you have the FMU, you should be able to some more. But an FMU tends to run rich and can really suck up fuel. I'm getting about 15 mpg with only 7 psi of boost and only an FMU to add more fuel. The injectors fail wide open and it just dumps fuel until the higher RPM's lean it out.

User avatar
WDRacing
Moderator
Posts: 23925
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
Location: MFFO
Contact:

Post

Hmmm...interesting questions.

Like always, before I want to give out any advice I'll need to know just a couple of things.

What turbine/ turbo kit are you using? What MAF are you using? Which really concerns me, cause I didn't think the car would run very well with the stock ecu and aftermarket MAF. Its important to know what type of MAF your using, do to its compatibility with whatever fuel management you choose.What type of boost control are you using?When you say built, I'm assuming you have forged pistons and rods. Either way we can have you making 300-350 hp in no time.

Just fill in those blanks for me and I'll be more then happy to assist.

Sorry to hear about the divorce, I went through one of those a few years ago. I'm on #2 right now, but you know what they say "always looking for a future X Mrs............"

WD

What

User avatar
GirlRacerS14
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:48 pm
Car: Cars and motorcycles and racing both of them hard and fast

Post

Ok i'll tell you what i know.It's a custom turbo kit. -Garrett T04E turbo, huge custom front mount(we knew a great fab guy) and all the special crap that goes with turbo set up.-The MAF i'll have to find out exactly what it is and where from.(all i know was i found the company at NOPI in ATL and he ordered it)-Engine has been port/polished, metal head gasket, chrome-alloy? rings, forged pistons ( i think 8.?/1 compression), resurfaced crank?, :confused: (i think i'm remembering all this correctly) -It's got a manual boost controller ( I know they're garbage) i need an electronic one.-and then of course the fuel upgrades i mentioned.

I probably have an ECU then cause the car runs great with the exception of being a little rich on the fuel.(he was getting one last i heard but never told me so i guess i have it)I just want to make the most of the engine i've got without hurting it and i know it still needs work obviously.He won't tell me anything now about what he did because he's jealous of my car. I'll try to find out more, i know this is vague. He's just threatened everyone where i live to keep their hands off my car, so i'm kinda screwed.

User avatar
WDRacing
Moderator
Posts: 23925
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
Location: MFFO
Contact:

Post

Well if its simply running rich, it's as easy as adding the HKS SAFR. Then you'll need to adjust the fuel map a bit. Its real simple with the SAFR. I would suggest doing it on a dyno with someone that has experience tuning.

Other then that, there really isn't anyway to make your car run leaner. Your car sounds like it has been built already, so the hard has been done. All you have to do now is add boost and fuel.

WD

User avatar
GirlRacerS14
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:48 pm
Car: Cars and motorcycles and racing both of them hard and fast

Post

Thanks. i guess i'll have to get a SAFR and search for someone to install it. The car just needs to be tuned for a better mix and that should help. then i'll have a beast! :D


Return to “KA24ET / KA24DET Forum”