CVT transmission with Turbo

[Trust_Tiida]

Is it possiable that my HR16DE and CVTC transmission can't hold the power that an HKS GT2835R Turbo with 0.87 A/R?I already did some mods... Am considering turbo conversion.

[Urq]

All I can say is Slip Slip Slip.

[MinisterofDOOM]

By the way, CVTC is continuously variable timing control, Nissan's name for one of their variable valve timing systems.

CVT means continuously variable transmission.

[Diznum]

I was also thinking no way, but I see that the reliability on the Murano and the Maxima is fantastic, my sources at Nissan claim that considerable power can be put onto those units, so how different is the CVT on the Versa/Tiida, compared to the Maxima and Murano's units? I'm looking into it as are my buddies at Nissan and a few pals at a couple of the import sports mags at the company I work at.

[Ever Victorious]

so how different is the CVT on the Versa/Tiida, compared to the Maxima and Murano's units?

Extremely.

The Max/Murano unit was designed with the possibility of installing into the Z in mind. And Nissan acknowledged in the design that Z owners are more likely to put big power mods under their hood.

The V/Sentra units are much smaller, and were designed with the grocery getter/commuter in mind.

You'll horribly break your CVT if you try to turbo it. If you want to put lots of power into a Versa, you need the manual.

[Johniboi]

Is it possible to put in any turbo into yur versa?Caus i dont have the cvt thing but i was thinking about getting a turbo kit for the V.

[Ever Victorious]

Is it possible to put in any turbo into yur versa?Caus i dont have the cvt thing but i was thinking about getting a turbo kit for the V.

Anything is possible with enough money, but you'll be waiting a VERY long time if you're waiting for a "turbo kit". Only one kit was ever made. I don't mean one brand, I mean one physical kit. Then the company that produced it went under.

There are no known plans in the works for another kit, either... so anything that is done is going to have to be a custom one-off installation (read: Expensive with a capital E)

[corpsecorps]

I just don't understand?

Why buy a econobox and then want to make a Sports car out of it?

Everything on this car is for efficiency, not power.

If you want a powerful car, Buy one with power! They are around.

Is it just me?

[manvan]

while i dont care what people do to there cars (to each their own) and if you want to turbo your V, more power to you, its just that its not smart to do right now. you would need a new clutch(not available) a turbo kit(not available) and all the other little things that go into building a turbo car. i say just wait till the whole process is a lil easier and more practiced then go out and do what you want.

[gotak]

Eh manvan he doesn't need a clutch. Putting a clutch in his car would be a strange thing to do since it's automatic...

The CVT you have might be a bit light for a turbo but certainly Nissan makes better ones. My car has 177 hp and it has a cvt. You can get a 3.5 liter 270hp engine with a CVT so certainly there's a possibility for CVTs to work with higher torque and power.

Thing is your CVT doesn't allow you to control the RPM right? You'll find yourself unable to really control your boost without control over engine rpm. So you'll want to use your turbo, step on it and if the computer ignores your intention for it to down shift you end up waiting seconds for things to happen.

[Ever Victorious]

Gotak... the Sentra SE-R uses an Altima CVT, not the Versa/Sentra CVT. It's MUCH heavier duty than the Versa's CVT.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Extremely.

The Max/Murano unit was designed with the possibility of installing into the Z in mind. And Nissan acknowledged in the design that Z owners are more likely to put big power mods under their hood.

Where is this info coming from?

The Maxima and Murano are FWD. The Z is RWD. The FWD and RWD CVTs are entirely different. The FWD one is called the Xtronic, and it's the same one that's in all the FWD Nissans.

The RWD one is called the Extroid, and it's a toroidal CVT that has absolutely nothing in common with the Versa/Murano/Altima/Maxima/Sentra Xtronic. There are no belts or pulleys in the Extroid. Instead, it has disk/wheels that shift angles in relation to two toroidal cones. It's similar to the systems that have been used in bicycles. Honda is also offering a toroidal CVT in the Goldwing now, I believe.The Extroid has been used in Japanese-market RWD sedans for a few years.

It is not physically possible for the Z to use the Extroid, nor could the Murano use the Extronic.

I don't know for sure, but my guess is there is very little difference (if any at all) between any of the Xtronic variants. There's not much reason for there to be. It's not like a traditional automatic where you might need to have different gearing for different engines. There's really nothing that would NEED to be changed from one FWD application to another. Certainly you could build a stronger one and a weaker one, but it seems like it would be cheaper and simpler to make one single variant that works across the board.

[Ever Victorious]

Since when has any manufacturer ever chosen the more logical way to do something?

OK, so I'm apparently mistaken on the FWD/RWD difference, but go ask your dealers. The lower end cars and higher end cars DO use a significantly different transmission. This was discussed before a few months ago, back when Scott@WCN was still posting here.

Besides that, most manufacturers DO use significantly different transmissions between the top and bottom models, and it's not just gearing.

By your logic, an automatic transmission installed in the last-generation Pontiac Grand Prix should be able to hold the same amount of maximum power as the automatic transmission in the Pontiac G5. Same company, size difference of two classes (which would be akin to a Maxima-Sentra comparison). But I dare you to hook up the 3.8L supercharged V6's to the G5's auto and not have it at least slip.

Not all internal changes are about gearing, a lot are about handling power. Take a TH400 and a TH350. Similar transmissions, installed in a lot of similar vehicles. Yet drag racers tend to prefer the TH400 because they are a lot harder to break in high-power apps.

You're missing the point, MoD... the transmission he is referring to is NOT designed to handle high power apps. How can it? The damn things have a tendancy to slip after PANIC BRAKING... how are they going to handle boost? Not well. That's all that can be said.

[ghrshow]

Where is this info coming from?

The Maxima and Murano are FWD. The Z is RWD. The FWD and RWD CVTs are entirely different. The FWD one is called the Xtronic, and it's the same one that's in all the FWD Nissans.

The RWD one is called the Extroid, and it's a toroidal CVT that has absolutely nothing in common with the Versa/Murano/Altima/Maxima/Sentra Xtronic. There are no belts or pulleys in the Extroid. Instead, it has disk/wheels that shift angles in relation to two toroidal cones. It's similar to the systems that have been used in bicycles. Honda is also offering a toroidal CVT in the Goldwing now, I believe.The Extroid has been used in Japanese-market RWD sedans for a few years.

It is not physically possible for the Z to use the Extroid, nor could the Murano use the Extronic.

I don't know for sure, but my guess is there is very little difference (if any at all) between any of the Xtronic variants. There's not much reason for there to be. It's not like a traditional automatic where you might need to have different gearing for different engines. There's really nothing that would NEED to be changed from one FWD application to another. Certainly you could build a stronger one and a weaker one, but it seems like it would be cheaper and simpler to make one single variant that works across the board.

OUCH!Ever Victorious is slapped down by someone with Actual facts!

That's all that can be said.

[Diznum]

But with all that nobody knows how a Turbo will work with the CVT trans in the Versa. You can Turbo anything including the Versa with the CVT trans, it all depends on how much boost, ie: Too much-No transmission, pistons or dif..... But with a mild boost, the CVT would probably work fantastic with a Turbo, when you think that the CVT keeps the engine at the optimal RPM for power and economy and in a Turbo car keeping the R's up to prevent Turbo Lag. But until somebody puts one together we'll never know for sure. Maybe the Nissan engineers?

[manvan]

Eh manvan he doesn't need a clutch. Putting a clutch in his car would be a strange thing to do since it's automatic...

The CVT you have might be a bit light for a turbo but certainly Nissan makes better ones. My car has 177 hp and it has a cvt. You can get a 3.5 liter 270hp engine with a CVT so certainly there's a possibility for CVTs to work with higher torque and power.

Thing is your CVT doesn't allow you to control the RPM right? You'll find yourself unable to really control your boost without control over engine rpm. So you'll want to use your turbo, step on it and if the computer ignores your intention for it to down shift you end up waiting seconds for things to happen.

oh yeah, i 4got he had an auto, my bad

[Ever Victorious]

OUCH!Ever Victorious is slapped down by someone with Actual facts!

That's all that can be said.

It's hard to show "actual facts" for what happens when someone Turbos a CVT Versa. Mainly because noone has done it yet.

Oh wait, that too is an actual fact.

[Trust_Tiida]

http://pop.pcpop.com/zpt/defau...UTF-8

BTW this is a 1.6L Tiida converted to turbo using a CVT transmission.

Any idea to get at least a digram?????it can handle the turbo...

[Neo Xian Wu]

that engine bay looks more cramped and suffocating than stretch denim on a fat woman. i would hope he has a some sort of mod to direct air in there. anybody else notice the Tein SS kit tho? *drool*

[Ever Victorious]

I notice that it's an automatic of some sort, but I can't find a language that Babelfish can translate that from.

They mention, in the english language, about every brand and specification (inlcuding the engine), but the ONE thing that's missing (at least in english) is the transmission.

can someone else verify that it is indeed the CVT, and not the 4AT?

[djtorello]

I notice that it's an automatic of some sort, but I can't find a language that Babelfish can translate that from.

They mention, in the english language, about every brand and specification (inlcuding the engine), but the ONE thing that's missing (at least in english) is the transmission.

can someone else verify that it is indeed the CVT, and not the 4AT?

Its the 4 speed auto. Simple way to tell, If the bottom of the shifter has an "L" then its a CVT. If the bottom says "1" then its a 4 speed.

Edited for pic:

[tyler_ofspain]

The turbo kit is for sale for $2000 if anyone wants it[QUOTE=djtorello]

[Urq]

A little off subject but the coilovers are only on the front of the car and it has springs on the rear??

[MinisterofDOOM]

Since when has any manufacturer ever chosen the more logical way to do something?

OK, so I'm apparently mistaken on the FWD/RWD difference, but go ask your dealers. The lower end cars and higher end cars DO use a significantly different transmission. This was discussed before a few months ago, back when Scott@WCN was still posting here.

Besides that, most manufacturers DO use significantly different transmissions between the top and bottom models, and it's not just gearing.

Good points. Answers:

1: I didn't say it'd be more logical. I said it'd be simpler and cheaper. Which is what manufacturers always choose if they can. Why would they devote unnecessary resources, especially to an economy car that needs to remain low-cost, if it wasn't necessary?

2: As I said, I don't know any facts regarding the differences between Xtronic variants. That was my guess. My point was that it has nothing to do with the Z.

3: A good point, but it misses the details. For one thing, the trans in the GP and G5 are not the same at all. Nissan uses a lot of the same transmissions between multiple cars, which is the topic at hand here. Yes, they may have internal differences, and a part of that is related to strength and durability. The other obvious reasoning, though, is that each engine has different power and efficiency needs, which necessitates different gear ratios. The point I was trying to make was that when set gearing is not a factor, there is no sensible reason to waste time, resources, or money developing separate variants of the same component when you can stick with one.I wasn't talking about random manufacturers that often do things. I was talking about Nissan specifically and their known methods.

I'm not trying to call you out or show you up or anything (my post wasn't personal, it was about the info). I just don't see slippage after braking and the idea of the Z making more power evidence enough alone that the two would be different. (For instance, regarding the slippage, is it even known if it's unique to the V's CVT? Because if not, it's an irrelevant point in the strength discussion.) The fact that the VQ makes twice the torque the MR does is certainly a viable reason to some extent, though.

If there has been definitive proof that there are indeed different version of the CVT then of course I'm wrong. But all I'd seen in the thread was guessing and speculation (some of it inaccurate) so I offered up some facts and a few guesses of my own.

[Ever Victorious]

Actually, the problem seems to be unique to the Versa. When this problem started, I asked in the Sentra and Altima forums and neither of those cars have a tendancy to slip after panic braking.

And the point of why the panic braking is important is that turbocharging a CVT theoretically can have the same effect, except that youare attempting to increase speed, not decrease.

Now that DJTorello says it's a 4-speed, that car makes MUCH more sense. A conventional auto is always a viable choice for a turbo. It's predictable, able to hold a fair amount of extra power... and can hold even more power with Torque converter mods that have been around for decates.