CVT temps in hot weather

2013SL3.5 · Post by **2013SL3.5** » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:33 pm

With the recent heat wave in most of the US, has anyone monitored their CVT fluid temps?

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:15 am

On a gen5 Altie, if your cooling system is healthy and you're not lead-footing it, you shouldn't have heat issues even in extreme temperatures. There's a cooling loop through the outlet tank on the radiator that's pretty effective unless the cooling load from the engine goes very high. That's the principal reason an external cooler is advisable to augment the radiator loop, the external cooler will protect the CVT against cooling system failures or a heat-stressed engine.

2013SL3.5 · Post by **2013SL3.5** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:10 am

Thanks for the reply and explanation of how the cooling system works for those who may not know. It’s pretty well known at this point that the stock “through the radiator” CVT loop installation on most North America cars can’t handle the extreme summer temps, and in fact cause the CVT fluid to reach operational temperatures that decreases effective lubrication which in turn contributes to premature CVT failure. So, “if your cooling system is healthy and you're not lead-footing it, you shouldn't have heat issues even in extreme temperatures” isn’t true, unless you’re living in an area where temperatures remain cooler.
Getting back to my point, I’m curious if anyone has monitored their CVT fluid temps during the heat wave?

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:58 am

2013SL3.5 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:10 am
It’s pretty well known at this point that the stock “through the radiator” CVT loop installation on most North America cars can’t handle the extreme summer temps, and in fact cause the CVT fluid to reach operational temperatures that decreases effective lubrication which in turn contributes to premature CVT failure. So, “if your cooling system is healthy and you're not lead-footing it, you shouldn't have heat issues even in extreme temperatures” isn’t true, unless you’re living in an area where temperatures remain cooler.

It may be "pretty well known", but it's dead wrong. The CVT fluid is only exposed to the temperature of the radiator outlet tank, which is much cooler than thermostat temperature even in hot conditions. The coolant there has already passed the radiator and its temperature is far cooler than the block. The only time outlet tank temperature will get anywhere near "engine operating temperature" is under very severe engine loading or if the system malfunctions causing the engine to overheat. Your statement shows an utter lack of understanding regarding cooling systems.

2013SL3.5 · Post by **2013SL3.5** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:44 am

I didn’t post to get into a fencing match, and there is no need for you to be offensive in your reply. You have no idea who I am, so please keep your assumptions to yourself.
Instead of hijacking the thread, why don’t you just simply answer the question? Perhaps you can also lend some of your 67 years of “expert” experience and please explain why Nissan added an external CVT cooler to Southern Hemisphere vehicles if it isn’t necessary “if the cooling system is healthy and you’re not lead footing it”. Apparently, you want everyone here to believe that heat isn’t a cause for premature CVT failure? Or are you just a hack for Nissan? Please tell us how many CVT transmissions you’ve removed and “professionally” diagnosed exactly what was wrong with them?
If you can’t answer, that’s ok, we’ll understand if you’re just a retired electronics “tech” with too much time on his hands.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:19 am

There are coolers on a lot of the overseas models, and I wish Nissan put them on everything. I'm a big proponent, if you've read any of my other threads. But the notion that any heat in the CVT is an enemy is as wrong-headed as the notion that radiators are somehow ineffective cooling mechanisms. There is in fact a thermostat for the beehive whose job is to warm the fluid to a good operating temperature to prevent premature wear, and the warmer and cooler work hand in hand to keep it at a good temperature. What an external cooler does is protect against extreme conditions that the cooling system won't handle, something we all encounter from time to time. Whether it's a mountain-climb in hot weather or a cooling system breakdown, the external cooler will save the CVT. It's why you should have one, even if you're a flat-roader who drives like grandma and will probably never need it.

To answer your other question (such as it was), I'm an active Nissan/ASE master tech, and you, sir, still don't understand cooling systems.

2013SL3.5 · Post by **2013SL3.5** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:30 am

Edit, btw where on earth are you getting that I said “ But the notion that any heat in the CVT is an enemy is as wrong-headed as the notion that radiators are somehow ineffective cooling mechanisms”???

I eluded to the fact that the radiator loop is inefficient to cool CVT temps during extreme conditions. Lol, then as per your last post you’re a proponent to additional cooling!!! Why is that? If according to you a “healthy” system and not “lead footing” it can handle it? Did you even read your posts?

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:44 am

I think anyone reading this can decide for themselves which of us is rude. Perhaps you're familiar with what Mark Twain is purported to have said regarding arguments and onlookers. With that, I'll obviate the need for any onlookers to figure it out.

For the onlookers, this was his unedited post:

You are one rude sob. Thanks for side stepping the question.
Btw, 67 and still working? I guess they don’t pay “techs” very well. Lol

2013SL3.5 · Post by **2013SL3.5** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:13 pm

Lol thanks for wasting everyone’s time. Evidently you are unable to answer even the first simple question, and your obviously over inflated opinion of yourself has lead you to hijack my thread from the beginning to show off your internet expertise, lol.

The above quote, yep I wrote it, but deleted it almost immediately after realizing it’s not worth getting baited by a forum troll “expert” who has no life (seriously, over two thousand posts in less than a year?)

Next time try keeping to the subject, and not pissing off brand new members with needless insults. I know this will probably be tough for you, psychologists commonly call your issues an inferiority complex and your response is sadly predictable.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:49 pm

I said your statement was wrong, which it was and is, and it reflects no understanding of cooling system principles. If you find something objectionable about facts, I'm sad for you. When I accidentally offer bad advice, I apologize and set it straight. I don't ever engage in personal invective as you did.

My wife's Altie, with a Hayden cooler and Derale bypass valve, has not gone past 180 even through a recent spate of "99-99's" here in Arkansas. Used to run 150-ish on the interstate with the cooler but no H-valve, now it's more like 170. I haven't noted the H-valve opening except for one long run up Mount Petit Jean, which is as I said. Except under very extreme conditions, the cooler is simply unused insurance. If the radiator can handle it, then the CVT won't suffer.

Post by **D1dad** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:55 am

Lo at this poster. I’m sure you probably think oil temps run much hotter in the summer. I’ve been driving and shade tree wrenching on nissans since they were Datsuns. Vstar knows his stuff and answered your question the way it needs to be answered. Seems like you created an account to be confrontational. I have my cvt tracked via scanguage and the hottest I’ve ever seen a temp get was 176.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:25 pm

D1dad wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:55 am
I have my cvt tracked via scanguage and the hottest I’ve ever seen a temp get was 176.

Heck, it isn't like people don't drive Altimas at 140F with the A/C blasting in Saudi Arabia. That's damn hot for you and me, but not for a tranny. Making the graph of heat-produced cross the graph of heat-dumped primarily requires load. The ambient matters of course, but much less. Lead-footing across the Sahara dunes, that needs a radiating cooler.

Post by **D1dad** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:01 pm

Just cracks me up when people associate high heat with fluid temp failures. The only thing that’s gonna happen when it scorching out is your fluid will get up to temp faster, end of story. Assuming your coolant and its system are good. My oil temp and cvt temps are the same running 80 mph down i90 at 100 degrees or 0 degrees. Heat doesn’t kill cvts. Nissan low cost of ownership and way to long recommendation of service does. Spend $50 on fluid every 20k and the cvt will outlive the body. Assuming nothing mechanical craps out.

Post by **D1dad** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:02 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:25 pm

D1dad wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:55 am
I have my cvt tracked via scanguage and the hottest I’ve ever seen a temp get was 176.
Heck, it isn't like people don't drive Altimas at 140F with the A/C blasting in Saudi Arabia. That's damn hot for you and me, but not for a tranny. Making the graph of heat-produced cross the graph of heat-dumped primarily requires load. The ambient matters of course, but much less. Lead-footing across the Sahara dunes, that needs a radiating cooler.

And that 176 was 10 days ago running up the side of a mountain in Tennessee in 95 degree weather. Up till then it was between 145-156. No doubt that temp would have been 176 in 32 degree weather.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:31 pm

Well, you have to qualify that for the early ones with 2-port beehives, heat can kill those. But gen5 Alties like the OP's and my wife's all have heat exchangers, as does everything '16 up. With an exchanger, unless you climb Mount Petit Jean every afternoon with your foot to the floor, you're quite right, no worries.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:19 pm

I have to revive this thread because I have a Blue Light Special in the Live-and-Learn department. Some of you may have noticed I just installed a CVT temperature gauge on the wife's '13, mainly because I got tired of using my phone for an instrument panel. That CVT has always run 160~170F in hot weather, 140~150F's in the winter. We've had the car for 70K and it gets new fluid every 20~25K, and it's always run at those temps. Not that 170F is harmful, but I kept noticing that D1dad's Altie and a lot of other forum folks generally saw temps 20F or so cooler than that. My customers who watch their temps generally ran a bit cooler too. I wondered why, so along with installing the gauge, I started poking around looking for a reason. Lo and behold, I discovered that the embedded thermostat that's supposed to shut off coolant to the beehive was stuck wide open, not just a bleed-flow when warm like it's supposed to. So it was dumping hot coolant into the beehive all the time, not just when the tranny needed warming. It's probably been that way since we bought the car. I changed it out and presto, 140F on flat highway instead of 160F, 150F in the hills instead of 170F.

That's like -- c'mon, man. That 'stat is something nobody ever thinks about. Lots of techs don't even know it's there.
Now I'm wondering how many cases of "repeated failure" might owe something to that butt-stupid little valve.

Post by **D1dad** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:32 am

Interesting. My tech who I don’t really let touch my car unless I need documented maintenance in case of a warranty issue and or extension, doesn’t know the wife’s 18 rogue has a tranny filter. He’s a supposed “master tech” lol. Good guy but also serviced the rogue tranny in a way that didn’t go along with the fsm. According to the manual the fluids supposed to be dumped under a certain temp but he drained it scalding hot the went through the fill and leveling procedure. Exactly why when I got home that I did it right. Any idea what temp is deemed over heating vstar?

Post by **VStar650CL** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:34 am

D1dad wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:32 am
Any idea what temp is deemed over heating vstar?

Yah, anything over 200F will eventually degrade the fluid. That's the point where most TCM firmware will record a "CVT-A" event. Over 220F it will start to spontaneously oxidize and degrade very quickly.

Post by **D1dad** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:13 pm

I just pulled in to our “shared condo” in Myrtle beach in the wife’s 2018. It’s the first time I left my scanguage on it for an entire trip in 90 degree heat. Going through the Appalachians in WV I hit a high temp of 205, but I was climbing an elevation of 3500 feet with 3 adults, luggage and a set of golf clubs. The majority of the trip, I was around 190 to 195 cruising 80. I’m sure that’s been the average temps on this trip before but I never put any data to it. No abnormal noises and the fluid has less than 10k on it. Averaged 31.7 mpg.

Post by **FlawleZ** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:33 pm

2013SL3.5 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:13 pm
Lol thanks for wasting everyone’s time. Evidently you are unable to answer even the first simple question, and your obviously over inflated opinion of yourself has lead you to hijack my thread from the beginning to show off your internet expertise, lol.

The above quote, yep I wrote it, but deleted it almost immediately after realizing it’s not worth getting baited by a forum troll “expert” who has no life (seriously, over two thousand posts in less than a year?)

Next time try keeping to the subject, and not pissing off brand new members with needless insults. I know this will probably be tough for you, psychologists commonly call your issues an inferiority complex and your response is sadly predictable.

He's a Nissan Mastertech, I would use less of your mouth and more of your ears if I were you.

Post by **itsa300zx** » Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:52 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:19 pm
I have to revive this thread because I have a Blue Light Special in the Live-and-Learn department. Some of you may have noticed I just installed a CVT temperature gauge on the wife's '13, mainly because I got tired of using my phone for an instrument panel. That CVT has always run 160~170F in hot weather, 140~150F's in the winter. We've had the car for 70K and it gets new fluid every 20~25K, and it's always run at those temps. Not that 170F is harmful, but I kept noticing that D1dad's Altie and a lot of other forum folks generally saw temps 20F or so cooler than that. My customers who watch their temps generally ran a bit cooler too. I wondered why, so along with installing the gauge, I started poking around looking for a reason. Lo and behold, I discovered that the embedded thermostat that's supposed to shut off coolant to the beehive was stuck wide open, not just a bleed-flow when warm like it's supposed to. So it was dumping hot coolant into the beehive all the time, not just when the tranny needed warming. It's probably been that way since we bought the car. I changed it out and presto, 140F on flat highway instead of 160F, 150F in the hills instead of 170F.

That's like -- c'mon, man. That 'stat is something nobody ever thinks about. Lots of techs don't even know it's there.
Now I'm wondering how many cases of "repeated failure" might owe something to that butt-stupid little valve.

Wondering if you have diagram of where this t-stat this is? I noticed my 2011 rouge is running a little hot 190-195 on hot days driving in the city. Was lower before, fluids are less few thousand kms.
Thanks

Post by **VStar650CL** » Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:04 pm

The parts drawing will show you where it's located on a gen1:
https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts/n ... jg00a.html

Post by **itsa300zx** » Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:11 pm

Thank you!

Post by **VStar650CL** » Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:16 pm

Goncntry13 · Post by **Goncntry13** » Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:17 am

I've noticed in my 17 Rogue that acceleration is harder/prolonged when the temps are hot outside. It's been well over 100 degrees for weeks and I have to push the accelerator a bit harder to get going. Also, when I step on the accelerator the rpm's climb but the car doesn't move much until it suddenly changes gears hard and boom we're moving. Is this normal? I love my Rogue and want to keep it as long as possible so if I need to take extra care of the CVT I want to do it.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:42 am

Slamming down like that isn't normal. It certainly could be from a hot tranny, but not necessarily. Do you have CVTz50 to take the CVT's temperature and read any codes in the engine and CVT? Has it had any fluid changes?

Goncntry13 · Post by **Goncntry13** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:56 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:42 am
Slamming down like that isn't normal. It certainly could be from a hot tranny, but not necessarily. Do you have CVTz50 to take the CVT's temperature and read any codes in the engine and CVT? Has it had any fluid changes?

I got it in March 2022 used with 22,000 on it. Currently it has about 28,000 miles. I haven't had the fluid changed but didn't know it needed it for a few 1000 more miles. I am not sure what the CVTz50 is but I will look into it.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:32 pm

CVTz50 is a 'Droid app for your phone, you use it along with an ELM327 bluetooth adaptor that plugs into your OBD scanner port. I use the VeePeak VP11, it's under $20 and works right with CVTz50 (not all cheap ELM327's do). Together they let you pick the brain of your trans controller (TCM) as well as your engine controller (ECM). It's the CVT owner's best friend and early warning system. I even use it frequently in the shop because it's way faster than the Nissan Consult3+ scanner.

Post by **2021SV2.5** » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:20 pm

CVTz50 it is not compatible with 3rd gen T33 Nissan Rogue yet.

JC123 · Post by **JC123** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 12:15 pm

Did you solve the problem I have a 2017 rogue doing the same thing (when I step on the accelerator the rpm's climb but the car doesn't move much until it suddenly changes gears hard and boom we're moving.) in hot weather after a while in traffic

CVT temps in hot weather

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