Concerns about CVT Trans

Nissan Rogue forum - Includes Nissan Qashqai and Nissan Dualis as well.
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kerrton
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Re: (mpattdu)

Postby kerrton » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:56 am

Yeah guys we need to keep the religious talk out of the discussion please, that is one of rules of conduct for this forum.

Keep the conversation on the topic of Nissan vehicles - we respect all religious views but they have no place here.

mpattdu, I removed your post with the religious joke, as there was nothing in there regarding the Nissan Rogue.

Thank you.


patdeeee
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Re: (kerrton) I need to explain something......

Postby patdeeee » Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:16 am

I did NOT mean to imply that Nissan was in conspiracy.

If you read the sales brochure on the 2007 Maxima, which I purchased brand new in the fall of 2007, it clearly states a glass (paraphrasing) smooth transmission. That turned out to be a lie. It is NOT smooth under the parameters I laid out in my previous posts. They KNEW the car vibrated at lower speeds, IF one accelerated slowly. By not saying this, as an exception in their sales brochure, it was UN professional and tantamount to a lie. Thus it is sales deception.

For IF they had noted it, I would NOT have purchased the car.

As to test driving a car before, we must realiize that it is simply impossible to notice everythig in a test drive that will emerge as one gets acclimated to a new car. So this argument IMO is not sound.

I also dissagree totally that because the CVT Problem is not safety related it is not the same. I find this to be totally irrelevant, respectfully. I bought a car in trust. The manufacturer of that car KNEW there was a problem in it under certain driving situations. They failed to POINT this out in plain verbage in their sales brochures. This IS a crime and the United States government should go after them on this, even though it is not safety related. For it is false advertising. And that IS a crime.

They NEED to be prosecuted for this; OR give a full refund for false advertising.

Again, I will not stand idly by and sweep this under the rug to placate a manufacturer who is so calous and non caring that they just called me and said, "There is nothing we are going to do about it". I just hung up the phone listening to that comment from Nissan. This IS a crime if there ever was one.

I intend to check into the possiblity of a "class action" law suit against Nissan and the dealer. I do not expect I will be able to afford it. But I am going to give it a try. In addition I intend to call several TV and radio stations and alert the news media also.

This is NOT right. It is dead wrong. The fact that some are not bothered by it and others have not noticed the problem is no sign the problem is not there. I am so irritated by it that I hate to drive the car now. And apparently there are others who feel the same. Also, Nissan admitting that the problem exists, in NO way relieves them from the obligation to DO something about it, EVEN though it is not safety related. For it is still just as wrong.

I will NOT give up my fight against Nissan.

IMO, They are criminals. They are vipers, and they are hypocrites for allowing such an atrocity.

may Jesus right ALL wrongs,

pat


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kerrton
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Re: (kerrton) I need to explain something...... (patdeeee)

Postby kerrton » Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:25 am

I see where you're coming from, but when you get into analyzing marketing semantics and comparing the wording to reality, it's a tough fight.

Every product's marketing can be challenged in some way. Coca-Cola may call their product "refreshing", when in reality drinking a can of Coke hurts my stomach and makes me feel the opposite of refreshed. One product may claim to be "smooth", but how to do quantify "smooth", or prove it to be so when it is a subjective term.

My point being, marketing is designed to highlight the good points of a product and build it up with terms that are difficult to quantify. It's tough to take a company to court and argue if their product is in fact "smooth", and how smooth is smooth enough? How do you measure it?

Getting back to the Rogue, I agree it's not as smooth as it could be, I have more of a problem with the surging effect of the CVT when the torque converter locks and unlocks under light throttle and light gradual braking. But this is the way the car is designed and if I don't like it I am not obligated to keep the vehicle or to purchase Nissan products in the future. It's the old Coke vs. Pepsi debate, if you don't like one and you think the marketing is a lie, do you take them to court or do you just stop buying the product?

Since it sounds like you've chosen to stand your ground on this, I wish you lots of luck and please post back and let us know how things go. There is bound to be others on here who feel as you do.

And please keep the religious references out of this forum and stick to the issues with your Nissan, otherwise I'll have to remove it from your posts to ensure we follow the NICO rules of conduct. Thank you.

Pescakl1
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Re: (kerrton)

Postby Pescakl1 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:04 am

If you think Nissan lied to you and you have proof of that, so sue them.

That is why lawyers are here for, right? You have proofs and evidences, it should be an easy one.

BTW, it is the Rogue forum here, not the one for the Maxima.

IdaCrue
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Re: I too have the vibration......... (patdeeee)

Postby IdaCrue » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:22 pm

I haven't noticed a vibration in my Rogue. Of course I started driving in the 60's, so I guess I must have a higher tolerance for rattles, shakes, vibrations, and other inconveniences. With the price of gas going up again, I am glad they compromised a little comfort and designed the Rogue to get good gas mileage.

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going rogue
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Re: (philipa_240sx)

Postby going rogue » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:59 pm

philipa_240sx wrote:They designed an engine and transmission to provide a balance of performance and good fuel economy. I'm sure they were well aware of low rpm vibrations and decided it was an acceptable trade-off.
This is the truth, plain and simple. And, I DO notice a significant reduction in low rpm vibrations since the CVT reprogram.

Low n Slow
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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby Low n Slow » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:19 am

going rogue wrote:
philipa_240sx wrote:They designed an engine and transmission to provide a balance of performance and good fuel economy. I'm sure they were well aware of low rpm vibrations and decided it was an acceptable trade-off.
This is the truth, plain and simple. And, I DO notice a significant reduction in low rpm vibrations since the CVT reprogram.
Hello all,

I bought my 2009 Rogue S AWD about a month ago and so far I’m very happy with it.

After driving it a few days though I noticed the vibration between 15 and 40 mph caused by the transmission lugging the engine. For a while I was really paranoid that I had bought a lemon or that I would need some major transmission work done until I searched this site and found that it was apparently designed that way.

I’ve read numerous posts about a software upgrade that fixes this, but when I called my local Nissan dealer to ask about it they said they haven’t heard of it.

Does anyone know the name or title of this software so I can refer it to the dealer? Thanks for any info!

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kerrton
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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby kerrton » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:44 am

Hi there Low n Slow,

I'm shocked that your Dealer could be so uninformed, this was a significant voluntary recall campaign by Nissan that affected all 2008 - 2009 Rogues, and looking at the bulletin this morning it does state that some 2010 Rogues are affected as well. Call your dealer again and quote this Nissan Recall/Bulletin number and tell them to get on top of this important issue for you - your car may have had the update but you should confirm this and get it done if required (free of charge on warranty of course):

Nissan Bulletin No. - Voluntary Service Campaign NTB09126

Some model year 2008 - 2010 Rogue vehicles may have a rattle noise from the transmission at low speeds. Nissan is conducting this Voluntary Service Campaign to remedy this potential condition. This campaign will entail reprogramming the Transmission and Engine Control Modules (TCM and ECM) and, for 2008 models, checking the transmission fluid level at no charge for parts or labor. See this bulletin for further detail.

Also, here is our extensive discussion thread on this update with lots of good info:

anyone-get-the-new-transmission-update-t469102.html

squazimo
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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby squazimo » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:35 pm

Duplicate post deleted by moderator.

Original post: cvt-replacements-again-host-of-other-pr ... 26700.html

rogue murano
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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby rogue murano » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:51 am

Does your vibration start about 25 MPH and if you give gas slowly up to 40 MPH the vibration gets worse? When you remove your foot from the gas pedal does it stop. If the dealer says this is normal ask them where its coming from and what are the specsifactions of normal to abnormal vibration they should be able to tell you. Make sure they put it in writing on your repair order. Nissan did extend the cvt transmission but they did not extend the warrenty of damage caused by abnormal vibrations.

walt227
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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby walt227 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:59 pm

I recently found this article in the Detroit Free Press and think it is somewhat germaine to this topic. On the surface as well as deep down, I share some of the sentiments echoed by patdeee and others I am annoyed by the cvt vibration to no end. While I have discussed this concern with the dealership and Nissan's customer service the reply has been, as stated here, that this is a normal part of the cvt. I too think I am more angry about this because of Nissan's literature which describes the cvt as "silky smooth" as well as touting it's gas milage. What a crock. However, I also tend to agree that this is marketing or rather corporate propaganda and a case of buyer beware and/or buyers remorse. Very few manufacturers are going to point out problems/quirks or potential problems/quirks with their products--even though they perhaps should. I think this is somewhat the point of the embedded article. I wonder how many Rogue sales Nissan would have lost/lose if they took potential customers on a quiet road, pointed out the "vibration," and told customers that the vibration is a trade off for slightly better gas milage. My guess is quite a bit. While I'm not sure that the cvt is new technology as the article addresses but, obviously, Nissan's cvt obviously comes with some pluses and minuses and perhaps that should be pointed out to potential buyers particularly those who may be first time Nissan cvt customers.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110814/C ... uto%20news


Mods. I know there is a more recent thread regarding the vibration issue. I did not want to post twice so if you think there is an advantage to posting this in the new thread plead do.

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casperfun
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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby casperfun » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:49 pm

I think as the years past, a new Rogue owner complains about the CVT vibration and how they are not happy and want to complain to Nissan Corporate, perhaps broke, defective, a lemon, yada yada yada, so your not alone.

The funny part is that I never really noticed the vibration until I read about it in the forum. Only for me only, the so-called vibration is miniscule at most.

I also know it is all relative since one person's smooth ride may be another person's rough ride.

Well I also agree that Nissan knows about this so called issue and should tell their salesperson to inform the customer.

As for myself, I feel that the Rogue is very smooth even though it has a little roar to the 4 cyl. engine at times. I occassionaly am aware of the vibration when my mind is set to look for it if that makes any sense.

But to me, the Rogue accelerates like a golf cart in a sense that it is smooth without the shudder while changing speed. So to me it is so called silky smooth.

I also understand if you the vibration bothers you, then you should not tolerate that either if that is not what you paid for.

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby funissan » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:06 am

vibrations are not normal.if you feel a vibration the dealer must investigate it. if they claim it is normal and Nissan North America or dealer management neglect to do a basic diagnose procedures you might want to hire a lawyer. here is a video of my 2009 rogue in which NIssan North America stated is normal www.youtube.com/watch?v=-__bST39f90 . all the dealer has to do was run it in drive up on a hoist. unfortunately in my case NIssan told d!ck scott nissan and suburban nissan in mich to not repair or inspect my rogue because i had to file a BBB case to force nissan to repair a defect that they are fully aware of

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby casperfun » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:25 am

The vibration on the video is not the same vibration we are talking about with the CVT. The vibration I feel personally is a miniscule vibration that is felt occassionally in the steering wheel.

The Rogue in the video is some type of defect where the engine is shaking, knocking ( but not the engine oil knocking situation ) or some type of vehicle shudder going on. Now that is not normal for sure.

As for the BBB, personally I had to complain on some work my previous Nissan dealership did on my maxima. I soon learned that the BBB is a complete scam and really does not help since all a company has to do is pay the BBB to be certified or what not. Or to get membership. It's like paying to get good marks even though their business really sucks.

I learned that about the BBB. Totally not helpful when I needed them. You can complain to the BBB then they contact the company and nothing is really done. A joke is all the BBB is, at least in my area.

Eventually, you really need to take them to court to make it right if anything. Of course they will pay for a lawyer which ends up more than the repair. :werd:

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby funissan » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:45 pm

according to Tamoroff Nissan in michigan its the same vibration has every rogue.. according to Suburban NIssan its the same vibration has every rogue... according to the Nisaan Field Engineer that inspected my rogue at Tamaroff NIssan its the same vibration.. accord to Nissan North America sworn testimony my rogue vibrates the same has every rogue. i would suggest to be cautions and be on the safe side and have them to do a hoist inspection while the car is running in drive. i read in a previous post that nissan tells the tech to test drive the suv and if it vibrates no more diagnose is necessary. thats unacceptable..unfortunately the blame will fall to the tech for negligence even thou he did what he was told..nissan has i believe 9 vehicles with cvt transmission and the rogue is the only one that vibrates? common senses should tell everyone something is wrong? the rogue is the only vehicle they what good gas mileage and thats why it vibrates? when Nissan told there dealers not to repair my rogue and falsify the repair orders stating there is nothing wrong was unexcusable. all i can say is i hope everyone that feels the vibration takes it in and have a hoist inspection while the rogue is running in drive.. it only takes 5 minutes to be on the safe side. if they refuse take it to a GM or Ford or any other dealer . i hope no one has my problem
video link was :

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-__bST39f90[/youtube]

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby philipa_240sx » Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:32 pm

Um... funnissan,

You only needed to post the link to the video once, not 14 times. It's just a forum etiquette thing, that's all.

I've deleted the extra ones. I've also properly embedded the Youtube video you posted.

Cheers,

philipa_240sx - Rogue Forum Moderator

funissan
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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby funissan » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:31 pm

thanks, its my first time on a forum. first time also putting up a vidio up on you tube.

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby philipa_240sx » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:20 am

No problem funissan! Welcome to the NICOClub Rogue Forums! ;)

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kerrton
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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby kerrton » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:12 am

funissan wrote:according to Tamoroff Nissan in michigan its the same vibration has every rogue.. according to Suburban NIssan its the same vibration has every rogue... according to the Nisaan Field Engineer that inspected my rogue at Tamaroff NIssan its the same vibration.. accord to Nissan North America sworn testimony my rogue vibrates the same has every rogue. i would suggest to be cautions and be on the safe side and have them to do a hoist inspection while the car is running in drive. i read in a previous post that nissan tells the tech to test drive the suv and if it vibrates no more diagnose is necessary. thats unacceptable..unfortunately the blame will fall to the tech for negligence even thou he did what he was told..nissan has i believe 9 vehicles with cvt transmission and the rogue is the only one that vibrates? common senses should tell everyone something is wrong? the rogue is the only vehicle they what good gas mileage and thats why it vibrates? when Nissan told there dealers not to repair my rogue and falsify the repair orders stating there is nothing wrong was unexcusable. all i can say is i hope everyone that feels the vibration takes it in and have a hoist inspection while the rogue is running in drive.. it only takes 5 minutes to be on the safe side. if they refuse take it to a GM or Ford or any other dealer . i hope no one has my problem
video link was :

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-__bST39f90[/youtube]
That's an interesting video of a Rogue that obviously has serious problems. However, I would say there is no connection to the vibration that most of us are discussing here. The low-speed vibration that most are discussing is subtle, and only occurs within a narrow rpm and speed range, it is similar to driving a manual transmission in a high gear at lower speed (ex. using 5th gear around town). And I believe this specific vibration to be normal and I accept it.

The Rogue in your video shows excessive vibration, and it is present at all rpms and all gears - basically it is constant and gets worse as the engine speed increases - this is very different than the typical case discussed here. I can only speculate that the Rogue in the video would shake like crazy the faster you were to drive, and at highway speeds the vibrating and shaking would be excessive to the point of not even being able to drive.

The one thing that I think the video was lacking was a diagnosis and recommendation for repair - what was the cause and repair, or was it a mystery?

I'm not dismissing your troubles, I just don't want to confuse the extreme issue in the video with the "by design/normal" minor vibration.

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby TaiLuu » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:01 pm

I thought that Tranny Mount was gonna snap lol .
Thats not Vibration thats at the point were you wanna say its Shaking.
Thats a lot of torque.
It's like what kerrton said. It's like being in 6th gear @ 1.25K RPM. Thats close to idle so you car with struggle to keep that gear turning.

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby philipa_240sx » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:14 pm

kerrton wrote:The Rogue in your video shows excessive vibration, and it is present at all rpms and all gears - basically it is constant and gets worse as the engine speed increases - this is very different than the typical case discussed here. I can only speculate that the Rogue in the video would shake like crazy the faster you were to drive, and at highway speeds the vibrating and shaking would be excessive to the point of not even being able to drive.
Kerrton,

There is one very big problem with that video: It doesn't represent real world driving conditions.

Planes don't get tested by taxiing around the runway....
Cars shouldn't be tested by raising them up in the air!


There are several issues:
1) There is practically no load on the drive line (engine and trans). Any vibration shown can change once a load is applied.
2) The suspension is at full droop creating very unnatural angles in the CV shafts. This can induce vibration.

If you really wanted to do this test, strap a camera to the underside of the car while driving it around.

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby funissan » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:18 am

according to Tamaroff Nissan, Suburban Nissan, Nissan Consumer Affairs, Nissan North America they all state my rogue has the same vibration has every rogue. in my case i told Suburban Nissan to raise the rogue up on a hoist and let it run in drive at idle and they stated they could not duplicate this. i am going to scan the repair orders and add them to the video on you tube. roughly that i now of there was 10 different Nissan employes that drove my rogue and said it was normal. has to the test on the hoist i believe we can all agree there is a vibration issue and clearly there is a defect that is very noticeable and obvious. you can show the video to any tech at any dealer and they will all tell you there is a Major defect. be safe and have your rogue tested on a hoist running at idle while in drive

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harryg
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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby harryg » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:37 pm

Kerrton is 100% correct with his posts stating that this is not the same vibration as the one experienced in every rogue, which is deemed to be normal.

I suggest you take it to a dyno(dynamometer) (AWD dyno, or one with four rollers) then see how badly it vibrates (video tape it).
If it is vibrating constantly like it shows in the video then something is definitely wrong.

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby funissan » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:54 am

hi guys, how do i post a copys of repair orders? the repair orders are after i took a similar video and after i told nissan where and how to test the rogue and yet they stated no problem found, operates has designed and can not duplicate vibration

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby casperfun » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:46 am

If you have a simple flatbed copier, than scan it. You can post the img to Tinypic and link it here.

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby philipa_240sx » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:17 am

funissan wrote:hi guys, how do i post a copys of repair orders?
The NICOClub forums do not have ability to upload images, etc. You need to host them on places like Flickr, Photobucket, Youtube, etc then link to them.

Instructions here:

how-to-post-pictures-using-photobucket-t521110.html

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Brian Spilner
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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby Brian Spilner » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:30 am

bought mine new a couple of months ago, i have the vibration between 20-40mph, i thought it may have been because of the AWD, just figured it was normal and ok because it wasn't happening at higher speeds. But after reading this, it does feel torquey and is at lower rpms. Oh well i'll get over it, sounds like its normal, i'll just drive a little faster. Besides the small vibration, i love the car. You guys should here the whining noise in first gear of a manual 370Z, now thats scary :ohno: i thought it was broken for sure. :gotme

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby TaiLuu » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:56 pm

Has anyone noticed when you brake not to hard but a little harder then usual lol that the Idle drops to 500RPM when at a dead stop then bounces back up to normal Idle speed?
I've been experiencing this lately I don't know if its that Electronic assist brake or what but It annoys me when I'm stopping.
I don't think its the Assist brakes cause I've done a really hard braking once when a old lady cut me off and I believe i felt the system kick in.

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby maverick_rogue » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:09 pm

TaiLuu wrote:Has anyone noticed when you brake not to hard but a little harder then usual lol that the Idle drops to 500RPM when at a dead stop then bounces back up to normal Idle speed?
I've been experiencing this lately I don't know if its that Electronic assist brake or what but It annoys me when I'm stopping.
I don't think its the Assist brakes cause I've done a really hard braking once when a old lady cut me off and I believe i felt the system kick in.
I do notice it albeit RPM drops to around 800 RPMS and it happens at around 12~ 18 MPH speed. I also get a popping sound as if something (TC??) is trying to engage hard. I have raised this with Nissan dealership and they, in turn, have raised it with Nissan Tech Line who haven't responded in last two months.

Here is the link to complete details.
noise-and-jolt-when-stopping-t535823.html

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Re: Concerns about CVT Trans

Postby philipa_240sx » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:31 am

TaiLuu wrote:Has anyone noticed when you brake not to hard but a little harder then usual lol that the Idle drops to 500RPM when at a dead stop then bounces back up to normal Idle speed?
If you pay careful attention, it's also dependent on how fast you move from the accelerator to the brakes. You can also duplicate it by setting the cruise control, let the vehicle speed settle, then applying the brakes. By quickly dropping engine rpms, you do gain an engine braking effect as well as a boost in engine manifold vacuum which in turn provides more vacuum assist to the brake booster.

There really isn't a detailed explanation of the Brake Assist system, so this phenomenon may or may not be related to it.

Another thought is this could be unintended acceleration programming. If you rapidly apply brakes, it overrides the throttle and returns the motor to idle.


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