Codes P0420 & P0430. V8 catalytic converter issues

Forum for Infiniti M37, M56 M35h Hybrid and Q70 owners.
tlaspec
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:39 am
Car: M56x

Post

Here is a video of noise on drivers side. It was taken around 0c/32f. It is distinct and different than the typical direct injection noise. The noise is much more pronounced in colder conditions. After the engine is warm the noise is completely gone.



User avatar
Ilya
Moderator
Posts: 9800
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Post

Can't say I've heard that sound before.

User avatar
reggiebrown40
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:01 pm
Car: 2018 Infiniti Q60 Red Sport
2011 Infiniti M56x - Dead

Post

Tlaspec, are you topped up on oil? If the car warms up and the oil is circulating properly I'd suspect that your oil needs to be changed or is low.

tlaspec
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:39 am
Car: M56x

Post

reggiebrown40 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:39 am
Tlaspec, are you topped up on oil? If the car warms up and the oil is circulating properly I'd suspect that your oil needs to be changed or is low.
Yep oil is at full mark and always changed with full synthetic around 7000km intervals, car burns ~.5L (half way between max/min dot on dip stick) in the 7000km oil change interval. Timing chain recall was also performed by dealer back in 2017, reading the thread made me think it might be exhaust leak which then leads to the cat codes.

Although the volume of the noise varies considerably with ambient temperature, the time it takes for the noise to go away is fairly consistent at around 5min of driving and is not affected as much by ambient temperature which leads to me to believe this is not oil related, For example, in the bitter colder winters the engine oil viscosity would be relatively higher when compared with starting ambient temp of say 0c/32f.

Anyways to satisfy my curiosity, I have recently sent an oil sample to Blackstone for an oil analysis, I'll post an update if they find anything wearing excessively in the engine.

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3507
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: Indiana, USA
Contact:

Post

Thanks for the video. It helps to attack these issues from any sensible angle.

The noise sounds characteristic of valvetrain noise to me. I listened to it on my phone and also computer, but I have to admit that some sound resolution could get lost between recording device, youtube, and the playback device on my end.
However, I noticed it was louder from the wheel well area, which is more likely of an exhaust than a camshaft issue.
*I also noticed your right bank sounds rather smooth from your video. No surprise here - in relation to the left bank catalyst codes.

My M56 doesn't have any such noise, but I tried this experiment rather late in the season because it has warmed up around here. Still, when I get a chance I'll remove the engine cover and listen to it. I intend to poke around both the left and right banks, and even put my stethoscope on the heads themselves (closer to the intake) to certainly isolate camshaft noises versus exhaust manifold noises.

Seemingly unrelated question: what brand and weight of oil do you use?

tlaspec
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:39 am
Car: M56x

Post

I used for couple years mobil 1 0W40 this oil spec is approved under the UK owners manual. Recently I came to learn that 0W40 is actually thicker than 5W30 in cold weather so I switched to pennzoil platinum 0W30, the video was taken right after oil change. The change in oil spec made no difference in noise.

User avatar
armybrat
Posts: 548
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:43 am
Car: 2012 M56x with Tech Package (sold)
Custom 2-1/2" X-pipe exhaust with OEM sport mufflers
HPS intake hoses
Uprev tune
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Post

EdBwoy wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:53 pm
There is no problem running 100% gasoline in a gasoline engine.
For a blanket statement, I agree...for our VK56VD motor, I'm not sure. Even though the manual says 0-10% ethanol, the oxygenated blends burn cleaner. Less carbon to the cats.
EdBwoy wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:53 pm
...if you would like to help out and do an experiment and give us another data point like we did with UpRev earlier in the thread, I'd encourage you to keep using the non-ethanol fuel while armybrat goes with ethanol-added fuel. After a while you and he can compare notes.
I do not think any damage has been done by the fuel, but I recall you mentioning that the code came when it got cold outside. If this issue is triggered mainly by outside temperatures, then these next months might be tricky to collect good data since it's warming up. Maybe temperature is the reason armybrat's code has stayed off so far? (Not sure what the ambient temperatures are where you are Sir)
I will continue to use BP 93 oxygenated gas. I created a spreadsheet to document my ongoing P0420 issue. It popped up again at 100,320 miles. The CEL went out on its own (for the 3rd time) at 100,500 miles. For the second time, I did not add Cataclean. I will have to look at the spreadsheet to see the mileage when I stopped using the pure gas. Outside temps have an effect on A/F ratios. Cold air is more dense, so the engine will run more rich, more soot, etc. More chance of throwing a cat code if you're hovering on the edge of the efficiency threshold like I am. I know that during the warmer months, the car runs leaner, less soot on the tailpipes...less chance of throwing cat codes.


***
armybrat wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:40 am
... I believe it goes back to the crossplane firing order of the left bank vs the right, like you mentioned earlier.
EdBwoy wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:53 pm
I apologize if I misguided you on that matter. I do not think there is anything wrong with the firing order that Nissan has used since at least 1989. I think the issue is structural - probably a crack in the manifold, or even a faulty catalyst element; none of which we can confirm without a visual observation. However, the ethanol vs. non-ethanol experiment might help shed some light.
You're right, I'm not sure why I made that statement. I was conversing with someone on my cell phone about the crossplane firing order and its effect on scavenging and sound signature. I meant to answer that person's exhaust question, not respond to your statement - sorry 'bout that LOL

User avatar
Ilya
Moderator
Posts: 9800
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Post

I have a log of when/where I bought 91 non-eth and where I bought 93 ethanol. What I don't have is a log of when the lights went on/off. I will start recording that. It's currently on, but maybe I will clear it and then run through again and start tracking.

Frog
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:59 pm
Car: 2011 M56s

Post

Interestingly enough every time My catalytic converter light comes on it’s right after I do fill up with gas within about 3 miles.

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3507
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: Indiana, USA
Contact:

Post

All this info is great guys! We could use more data points. If any other M56 owner with catalyst codes has noticed any trends, share with the group what causes the check engine light to come on/go away.

Frog wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:45 pm
Interestingly enough every time My catalytic converter light comes on it’s right after I do fill up with gas within about 3 miles.
Frog, interesting indeed. Does your light usually go away by itself or do you manually clear it and it stays off until the next fill up?

User avatar
Ilya
Moderator
Posts: 9800
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Post

It's gotten a bit warmer here and we're pretty regularly in the 50s now. Yesterday it was near 70. I had filled up the day prior with 91 non ethanol. My CEL has been on for a few weeks or maybe even months.

Well, after doing a 5hr round trip to Syracuse, NY and hitting 120kmi in the process...i filled up again with 91 non ethanol when I got home last night. This morning my CEL was off and all diagnostic tests are complete.

I'll keep an eye on it. It's about 60 today. The only other thing I did was added half a quart of oil before I left on my trip. I'm at my OCI but my dad's garage has a taken apart car on the lift so I haven't been able to change my oil yet.

Frog
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:59 pm
Car: 2011 M56s

Post

I should clarify it’s on my qx80. And the light goes away after about 20 start cycles of driving.

User avatar
Ilya
Moderator
Posts: 9800
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Post

Ilya wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:48 am
It's gotten a bit warmer here and we're pretty regularly in the 50s now. Yesterday it was near 70. I had filled up the day prior with 91 non ethanol. My CEL has been on for a few weeks or maybe even months.

Well, after doing a 5hr round trip to Syracuse, NY and hitting 120kmi in the process...i filled up again with 91 non ethanol when I got home last night. This morning my CEL was off and all diagnostic tests are complete.

I'll keep an eye on it. It's about 60 today. The only other thing I did was added half a quart of oil before I left on my trip. I'm at my OCI but my dad's garage has a taken apart car on the lift so I haven't been able to change my oil yet.
Spoke too soon. CEL came back on my way home from church. I'm starting to think it is REALLY sensitive to temperature. The wind picked up in the early afternoon as opposed to the morning so that my have put the temp down just a smidge.

cejac63
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:14 pm

Post

Hello. Fill disclosure ...I do not own a M56 or M37 but the M56 is one of the cars that I am researching for purchase more so than the M37. I have a question about the issue with the catalytic converters for the M56. Is the failure of the cat inevitable for this particular model and years(2011-2013) with higher mileage or random("you just got a bad one"). From what I am hearing $3000 for replacement is a lot. Also how many forum users have had to replace their M56 cat or did they decide to get rid of it. Please advise. Thanks.

User avatar
Ilya
Moderator
Posts: 9800
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Post

I will be fixing mine eventually for whatever the cost. It's cheaper than a $7200/yr car payment for a replacement vehicle and my car is paid off.

Larz
Moderator
Posts: 3054
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:55 pm
Car: 2019 Q70-L RWD
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida
Contact:

Post

cejac63 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:56 pm
Hello. Fill disclosure ...I do not own a M56 or M37 but the M56 is one of the cars that I am researching for purchase more so than the M37. I have a question about the issue with the catalytic converters for the M56. Is the failure of the cat inevitable for this particular model and years(2011-2013) with higher mileage or random("you just got a bad one"). From what I am hearing $3000 for replacement is a lot. Also how many forum users have had to replace their M56 cat or did they decide to get rid of it. Please advise. Thanks.
Most 'experts' will tell you that catalytic converters - on ANY car should last for the life of the car. BUT, they don't don't tell you how many years or how much mileage is considered 'the life of the car'. It is NOT a planned repair at any age or mileage. It is also not included in maintenance schedules. My CATs went just after 100k miles and 9 years on my M35. I know a mate with an original Q45 and 230k miles that still has the original CATs with no issues. From what I read whilst coming to grips with my bloody expensive repair has not taught me anything conclusive. No single thing that we can do to extend the life of the CATS, but there are things that experts 'suspect' can have an effect on the lifespan:

**** I cannot confirm or dispute any of these recommendations. I am simply sharing info from mechanics and recommendations from exhaust 'experts'***

1) Use ONLY the fuel your car is designed for. Yes, the computer will adjust the engine for lower octane, but apparently the CATs 'might' have issues.
2) Maintain your engine and do NOT modify the factory intake or air filters.
3) Do not have an uprev or do anything else that changes the timing / maps from the factory settings
4) Use high quality oil and oil filters and change them regularly
5) Do not strain your engine by towing anything above the allowable weight according to the car manual
6) Maintain / change coolant, power steering, transmission, and differential fluids per the maintenance schedule in your manual

That said, I am one of the most anal people regarding care and maintenance - caring and even over-caring for my car as very valuable equipment. I never reach the mileage necessary to change oil / filters - changing every 3-4 months regardless of how few miles I drive. I change ALL fluids well before the maintenance schedule recommends - I even changed my power steering fluid twice in the last 7 years - no mention of that in my maintenance schedule! I have the brake fluid changed with every-other brake job. My 3.5HR engine burs ZERO oil between changes, the oil reports are always fine and all diagnostics at the dealer come back perfect. I even changed my spark plugs at 90k miles and there were NO issues - just decided it was a good idea. I firmly believe that my entire car is as close to perfect condition as is possible. I did upgrade to aftermarket axle-back Takeda mufflers but they exceed the OEM specs (less restrictive) and are at the end of the exhaust, well after the CATs.
All of this ... and still my CATs went titz-up at 100k miles. Go figure.

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3507
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: Indiana, USA
Contact:

Post

It's starting to warm up in the area, but so far my M56x CEL is still erratic.
I haven't established a pattern yet, but it comes on then goes away without me erasing anything.

How is everyone else holding up?

M56boss
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:13 pm
Car: 2011 infiniti M56X
07\08 M45X swap
04 Infiniti FX35

Post

131k CEL for P0430 only comes on after driving my M56 on eco mode for a while 🤷🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍♂️

User avatar
biggie
Moderator
Posts: 10330
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:31 am
Car: '16 Q70L/'14 Q60S Vert/'19 Armada/'09 FX35
Location: Clemmons, NC

Post

I'm just happy that my other side hasn't come on... yet.

User avatar
Ilya
Moderator
Posts: 9800
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Post

Mine has been on solid now for a few weeks. Been trying to use the same gas if possible, etc. I did clear it one day when I went through a car wash as I didn't want to be embarrassed, but it came on shortly after lol. I think at this point I'm SOL and need to pony up for the fix by October as I will not be able to pass inspection this year.

User avatar
armybrat
Posts: 548
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:43 am
Car: 2012 M56x with Tech Package (sold)
Custom 2-1/2" X-pipe exhaust with OEM sport mufflers
HPS intake hoses
Uprev tune
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Post

Ilya wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:16 am
Mine has been on solid now for a few weeks. Been trying to use the same gas if possible, etc. I did clear it one day when I went through a car wash as I didn't want to be embarrassed, but it came on shortly after lol. I think at this point I'm SOL and need to pony up for the fix by October as I will not be able to pass inspection this year.
So far, mine is still coming on intermittently. This past Friday, my CEL was on. I decided to clean my air filters (which were dirty BTW) and also reflash my custom tune. Started the car to move it and the light went out. Moved the car to the left side of our garage, and turned it off. Just out of curiosity, I hooked the scanner up, and the P0420 code was gone. Usually when the light goes out, I still have to clear the DTC with the scanner. However, there was a U1024 VVEL CAN Communication code showing:
Image
https://www.engine-codes.com/u1024_infiniti.html

No CEL though...I drove to work and back, and checked it again, the code was gone. Car runs great, no issues. So, I was wondering if reflashing my tune cleared the P0420, and also if reflashing causes a temporary signal block between the VVEL control module and the ECM.

User avatar
Ilya
Moderator
Posts: 9800
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Post

I've been thinking to do my semi-annual 'ECU refresh' by reflashing UpRev as well. Especially now that the weather has changed.

User avatar
Ilya
Moderator
Posts: 9800
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Post

It's been really hot here (in the 90's - which is higher than normal for NY) and my CEL went off on its own. I quickly got my car inspected and bought myself a year lol. This is now 2 for 2 where I've gotten myself extra time hahaha. That being said, dealer quoted me around 6hrs labor and $980 per cat last time I was there with my wife's new QX60.

ArmedAviator
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:28 pm
Car: 2012 M37x
Location: SW Ohio

Post

Aren't Cat Converters warrantied for an exceptionally long time despite drivetrain warranty status?

Either way, if it were me and I'm putting money into it, I'd spend the money towards catless exhaust and a cat emulator.

User avatar
Ilya
Moderator
Posts: 9800
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Post

My CEL came on 25 miles later 😂😂. Man, perfect timing lol.

Based on the Infiniti Warranty Booklet for 2011, the cats are covered for 8 years or 80,000, miles whichever occurs first. I'm at 122k but just barely probably within the 8 years date. However I see there is a federal law, based on my quick Google, which covers the cats for 15 years or 150,000 miles.

What is a CAT emulator? Is it like on O2 simulator? I had one of those way back in the day on my 99 Maxima when I had a header back stainless steel exhaust.

What are some OEM sounding or close to it catless exhaust? Someone makes an exhaust manifold without the cats? Wouldn't you still need to lift the motor to swap?

Larz
Moderator
Posts: 3054
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:55 pm
Car: 2019 Q70-L RWD
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida
Contact:

Post

I reckon the engine has to be lifted to either get to the bolts or to make room to remove the CATs (or maybe both). If you are considering loosing the CATs altogether, maybe you can use a grinder to chop them off and rig pipes to replace what you chopped? I would check into that extension of the Fed law. That just might work. And don't beat yourself up for delaying the repair. I'm still a bit steamed that I had to buy a new dash due to the airbag recall. Recently, Infiniti started replacing them. :mad:

User avatar
Ilya
Moderator
Posts: 9800
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Post

I guess 8/80 is the law...its 15/150 for cars that are hybrid or partial zero-emission (PZEV). So doubt I'll be able to get Infiniti to even subsidize the repair under the guidelines of the law...too many miles.

User avatar
armybrat
Posts: 548
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:43 am
Car: 2012 M56x with Tech Package (sold)
Custom 2-1/2" X-pipe exhaust with OEM sport mufflers
HPS intake hoses
Uprev tune
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Post

Ilya wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:29 am
I've been thinking to do my semi-annual 'ECU refresh' by reflashing UpRev as well. Especially now that the weather has changed.
My CEL hasn't come back since I posted about the reflash. (about 800 miles) I believe the hotter weather helps, as there is less soot at the tailpipes compared to the cooler months.

Finflaps
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:03 pm
Car: 2011 M56

Post

Hey guys. Figured I would throw my issue into the discussion as it may help. I have a 2011 m56 base, 107k on it. Meticulously maintained by the dealer only since new. Ive had every tsb/recall that has popped up, and you could eat off any surface of my vehicle. Put bluntly, it could not be in better condition for the age. I burn less than .5qt between oil changes, and the kicker in this is that I live in South Florida where I have no winter. Today it was 95, with 95% humidity. My car popped its first code...P0420. I bought cataclean but am still at 3/4 a tank. I cleared the code, which I was overdue for my annual ecu refresh anyways, and if I get the code again by the time I get to 1/4 tank I plan on using the cataclean. I will not wait long to replace though, but at the price im looking at to repair I figure might as well see if i can get some time to prepare for That financial hit first lol. Any help i can give just lmk. I found the discussion interesting, some great theories here..

User avatar
Ilya
Moderator
Posts: 9800
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Post

If you caught it that early you may have luck like ArmyBrat.

My code is interesting. It was on for the better part of the first 6 months of the year and then went off last week so I got inspected. Then yesterday, it went off again. Wasn't as hot as I thought it needed to be for that to happen. I'm not sure what the issue with this car is...are we 100% sure it's not O2 sensor related?


Return to “Infiniti M37, M56, M35h Hybrid and Q70 Forum”