Changing upper timing chain tensioner..

[OM3GA]

Im debating on whether or not i should change the upper tensioner on my timing chain.... I dont care so much about the noise i just dont want to worry about something slipping or breaking..... I plan on keeping my motor for a long time even though it has 198k miles on it its still well kept but im wondering if its a good idea to change the upper tensioner.

Also what do you have to do to change the upper tensioner?! I have searched and searched all i can find everywhere is just write ups on how to change the timing chain. I am mainly wondering if you have to take the upper section of the front cover off to do this... Do you? I hope not lol.

[dickie]

upper tensioner? you mean the oil pressure-driven tensioner on the left side of the chains? or are you referring to the guide that everyone removes?

if you are replacing the tensioner you have no excuse not to replace the whole timing system. the kit is relatively cheap depending on where you go.

to replace the tensioner, you need to remove at least the front timing cover.

[OM3GA]

Yes i am reffering to the upper chain tensioner not the guide that everyone removes. So you do have to pull the upper half of the cover off? There is no way to access it and take the bolts out with just pulling the valve cover and getting a wrench down in there?

[dickie]

absolutely not.

[tramp_drift240]

no way in hell.

take off the upper timing cover, its a handful of 12mm bolts. to put it back together you just need some permatex gasketmaker.

the tensioners bolted to the head with 2 10mm bolts, but im not sure if youd be able to ONLY buy the tensioner, normally youd have to get the whole timing kit.

[OM3GA]

I have the Tensioner ordered already you can change just that. Do you think its worth changing that? I figure ill remove the upper guide at the same time... I was just gonna get a new one but the dealer wants $120 for it.... That top metal part thats bolted on with two bolts.... Should i remove that or just leave it? I have heard stories of them breaking and i do not want that to happen, However i dont really like the idea of not having it.. Idk what to do.

[tramp_drift240]

shrug, a lot of people who have them take them off since they stopped putting them on from the factory in s14 ka's. i was told to take mine off, but i had the same notion about wanting to keep it on so its still there.

you can just replace the tensioner, just dont be flabberghasted if you end up having to change the rest of your timing stuff at some point as well later on down the road.

[OM3GA]

Well im thinking since im gonna be in there i might as well remove both upper guides.... So from my understanding all you have to do is remove both guides and leave all the bolts out for them as well right? You do not put the bolts back in because they are not holding anything in? I saw a pic of someone elses engine when they removed their very top guide and they put the bolts back in.... I am also concered about the chain hitting the valve cover instead of hitting the guides....But also you have to worry about the chain hitting the guides and breaking them off in the engine(which i have seen pics of) And i dont think i should be buying new guides from the dealer which are $90 and $70...

Should i be worried about the guides not being there or should i just remove them and lose the risk of them breaking off in the motor, And also lose the noise...

What is the smartest thing to do?And does anyone have The pics of the front cover with torque specs on it and also torque specs on the tensioner?

[tramp_drift240]

i dont know torque specs for the cover or the tensioner, but i just snug everything up. dont overtighten anything, especially the 10mm bolts for the tensioner. theyll either break or strip the threads in the head.

what two guides are you talking about? there should be the guide bolted to the top of the head, you can take that off. no big deal. you can leave the bolts out too, theres no reason for them to be in there. or you can just leave it in. either way, theres no risk of the chain hitting the valve cover, theres too much tension on the chain for it to sling up that high.

other than that guide, theres just the tensioner which needs to be there.

[OM3GA]

This is the second guide.

[tramp_drift240]

you know, in all honesty, i dont even know if i have that on my car. hahahaha.

but, im sure you could take it off with no problem.

imagining it as an upside down triangle, the top and the right side always have tension on them when running. theyre not flopping around anywhere. the only slack is on the left side, which is kept to an extreme minimum by the oil-pressurized tensioner.

im sure you could take the top and right one off without worry about anything. now im wondering if i even have mine on...

EDIT: yup, definitely dont have that one bolted to my head. not too sure where it is, but. its not necessary.

[OM3GA]

So i can do this and when i take them both off i leave the bolts for them off as well? So it would be two guides and 4 bolts take off.Is this correct?

[tramp_drift240]

chyup, sounds like it.

simple addition is so awesome

[dickie]

I have had more than a couple Nissan techs say (and I'm tired of repeating it) that the side guide is NOT part of the removal process. When I asked an old guy who has been racing and supporting Nissans for decades, he looked at me like I was crazy/stupid.

I honestly don't recommend removing any of the guides, if your chain is tensioned correctly there is no way it should be contacting the guides at all. Removing the guides is a cheap procrastinator's solution to a bigger issue that can develop further if you don't take care of it.

[tramp_drift240]

^ thats also true.

if your chains hitting the guides enough to break them or something, theres gotta be a problem.

though i still dont know where my exhaust side guide is...

[OM3GA]

So what exactly should i remove then? I am replacing the tensioner at the same time... I have heard too many horror stories of the upper guide breaking in the motor which i believe is caused by the tensioner not working and the chain hitting the guide repeatedly which is not good if you were to just remove the guides. I have not heard many horror stories of the right guide but i have seen pics of that page that shows that you should remove it....



I need to know what to do asap because i keep hearing mixed results... I want to do the best thing. I am replacing the tensioner i do not know which one to go with.. I'm not getting the dealer one im getting either the Beck Arnley one with a lifetime warranty that is originally $65 i can get it for $37 with my discount or should i go with the Hi-Tech one which is $75 with my discount and has a 3 month warranty... I know it seems obvious go with the lifetime warranty one but why have i heard good things about the Hi-tech one and why is it $75 with only a 3 month warranty??

[tramp_drift240]

shrug, just replace the tensioner. take the other janx out if you want to.

i couldnt tell you which tensioner to go with, i got it with a whole timing kit. and i dont recall the name.

[OM3GA]

Yeah i guess ill probably just go with the lifetime warranty one because the Beck Arnley stuff is like exactly the same as stock i got a fan clutch of that brand because the dealer wanted $250 for it and the cheaper fan clutch would not work because it was thicker and made the fan stick out just a little bit more which caused it to hit my shroud. I really need to know which guides to take out now.... Please let me know.

[dickie]

yeah, one of the dealership techs i spoke to called the bulletin, "****" if that tells you anything.

but youre a big boy, do what you want. you dont have to keep the car for another 50,000 miles or anything like that so.

[OM3GA]

What are you talking about keeping it for another 50k miles? You have no clue what ive done to this car..... Im trying to find out what the best thing is to do when i replace the tensioner because i dont wanna open that part up again or risk anything because i didnt do something i should of... So if you have any advice then let me know if not then no thank you captain.

[tramp_drift240]

hey d!ck

you should straight up say what youre trying to say, advice-wise.

a lot of people take off the upper guard, and i guess the side one too. i dont know what to tell the dude, hell, im already missing my exhaust side guard.

just say what would be a good idea.

[Brandon93240]

Just to clarify some issues. I worked at Nissan for a few years before I moved to where I am now. While I was there we did remove the upper and exhaust side guides. Even with all new components and the guides in place we'd still get rattle. So after dealers having to pay techs out of pocket to pull the covers back down to remove the guides they sent a tsb request to nissan to leave the side guides off. It honestly doesn't need them, if the chain breaks it doesn't matter if you have guides of not because your going to have atleast 4 bent valves. The engine wouldn't run if it had enough slack to contact any of the covers on the engine(purpose of the guides). Also some dealers(including the one I worked at) did more tensioner and lower slack guides and tensioners than chains. You can buy the parts seperately from nissan not just in the 60k and 120k sets they sell. Alot of times oil would bypass the oring on the tensioner piston and let the tensioner slack ever so slightly. If the chains needed replacing we would, theres test procedures and what to look for to diagnose if it needs replacing. If you have 250k on the stock chain replace it.

[dickie]

i dont understand why you would get that far into it and not replace the chains and guides with new ones.

its your car and i thought i was being clear before, but i will dumb it down a little more: how long your motor lasts depends on how well you take care of it. if the chain had been replaced in the past 60k miles you wouldnt hear tapping (related to the chain) and you wouldnt need to remove the guides.

i speak from experience on this. if you choose to be lazy and/or cheap out on maintenance, you will reap the consequences sooner rather than later.

if you think you know better and this doesnt apply to you, go ahead and keep on keepin' on the way you're headed. plenty of owners have no issues procrastinating on timing chain replacement by removing the guides, and plenty of others have their engines die from other issues before their chains slack or break.

i'd rather be safe than sorry, though and i just thought you might benefit from actually maintaining your car the way you're supposed to.

[tramp_drift240]

WHOA.

alright, d!ck, youre saying that if theres rattling goin on from the timing chain, that the OP shouldnt take out the guides to hide the problem.

just replace the timing chain if theres rattling, i suppose the guides would be a good indicator to whether your chains about to fail.

sorry ive been a little slow in this thread, i wasnt sure what you were trying to say.

[Brandon93240]

Just so you know I myself as many other techs I've worked with while at Nissan had rattles even after new chains. Nissan put the tsb's out because of NVH customer complaints. Chain rattle is also a culprite of a weak tensioner not applying enough pressure to slack up the chain. Oil bypass's the piston inside the tensioner letting the chain slack enough to produce the noise. Most chain wear is from startup and high rpm's. I have a guy at a local dealer you can call named Edward, he's been a parts dealer for about 20 something years and was one of the first guys I know in the Houston area to get ahold of Nismo parts when it wasn't easy to get them. He will even tell you that right now at the dealer he works at they do only replace the tensioners at 60k. If you want peace of mind replace them, it is alot of work for most without having air and a lift to do the work so I could see why most diy'ers would replace everything.