So after hurricane Irma I noticed that my car horn was not working. I check the fuse and it was blown. After I put in a new fuse I noticed the horn kept going off when i start the car up. I have since taken out the fuse since I can’t drive with my horn constantly blowing. I thought maybe it could be a bad horn relay so I swapped it out with a new one and same problem. My air bag light was on and I have recently gotten a new airbag and still same problem, car horn keeps blowing when I start the car. So at this point I just drive around with no horn since i cannot leave the fuse in. I’ve disconnected the battery and cleaned the corrosion and still same problem. I’m at a loss and don’t know wtf is going on. I have an Infiniti m35x. Someone please help me.

I think you might have an issue with your clockspring assembly.
I can't immediately see why it would be caused by the hurricane (unless the interior was exposed to a lot of humidity?), but those are some of the signs.

Before you make any changes, I assume it is the steering wheel mounted airbag you're referring to, right? After replacement, did the light go away?

Yes the light went away after the airbag fix. But if it is the clock spring why would the horn only blow when the car is on?? Shouldn’t it blow even while the car is off to (which is does not)

Maybe this is a long shot, but I'd suggest you look the IPDM over. Since you have associated the issue with the storm, water may have percolated into the box. The car electronics runs riot once there is a breach caused by water in the IPDM.

Costee wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:09 am

Maybe this is a long shot, but I'd suggest you look the IPDM over. Since you have associated the issue with the storm, water may have percolated into the box. The car electronics runs riot once there is a breach caused by water in the IPDM.

Thanks I’ll look into that. Was wondering if anyone may have any other ideas as to what it could be. I’m just afraid to spend 150 bucks on a clock spring and labor just for that to not be the problem. If anyone else also believes it to be the clockspring would really appreciate your input.

Updating this to see if anyone has any opinions on what this could be. So far I’ve changed the battery, changed the clockspring, changed the horn relay and still having the same issue. Would appreciate any thoughts. Haven’t tried the ipdm yet but not sure how to test it. And those things are expensive to just replace on a whim.

Can't remember where I got this. Give it a try:
"Here is a way to test the IPDM: Turn the ignition key to the on position, press your door switch 10 times, turn the ignition off then turn it back to the on position. If you do this right your horn will beep and the oil light will start flashing. The defroster, headlights, cooling fans, wipers, and compressor clutch will cycle, so make sure that your hood is open so you can hear the clicks of the compressor clutch. This is called the auto active test and this tests the main relays in the IPDM."

Costee wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:59 pm

Can't remember where I got this. Give it a try:
"Here is a way to test the IPDM: Turn the ignition key to the on position, press your door switch 10 times, turn the ignition off then turn it back to the on position. If you do this right your horn will beep and the oil light will start flashing. The defroster, headlights, cooling fans, wipers, and compressor clutch will cycle, so make sure that your hood is open so you can hear the clicks of the compressor clutch. This is called the auto active test and this tests the main relays in the IPDM."

Just did the test everything seems to be in order heard the clicks, saw the lights flash, defroster came on etc. But of course didn’t hear the chirp since I have to leave the horn fuse out or else the horn will start blasting when the car is cranked or even in the on position.

mac, maybe a malicious "bot" on the CAN-bus ?

Bigboss, where are you located?


Can you identify whether the troublesome horn is the high horn (behind emblem in front grille) or the low horn (behind and under left headlight)?
And I have to clarify - is the horn blaring with breaks like a car alarm or is it just continuous?

bigboss4ak wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:23 pm

Yes the light went away after the airbag fix. But if it is the clock spring why would the horn only blow when the car is on?? Shouldn’t it blow even while the car is off to (which is does not)

Sorry I missed your question earlier. The FSM indicates that the ignition switch being in ON or START state, through the power distribution module, (and through the clockspring) will energize the horn relay. I assume this is only the HI horn, as the LO horn can be activated with the car off and also when you use your key fob to lock the car. I might have the horns backwards though.

At this point, I think it is your horn switch that might have a problem. Once again, I don't see why it would randomly fail, but your airbag did too, right? I don't know if you did the clockspring and airbag replacement yourself, or if you had to pay; but this is what I would do if I were in your shoes... or do for you also if I happened to be close to you:
Remove the airbag screws and the airbag itself but leave the electrical connections attached. There is a U-shaped bracket on the back side of the airbag. This is in my understanding the horn switch as it is the only thing that springs back when the airbag is pushed to honk the horn. At least it should spring back.
If for some reason, the hurricane caused corrosion, impact caused the loss of spring-back, or any other mysterious acts of nature happened and that U-bracket is permanently connected to the back of the airbag module, then your horn will be constantly on.

So, depending on your comfort with electrical systems, hold the airbag in your hands and alternately complete and break the circuit between the airbag and this bracket. For funsies or thoroughness you can remove the Torx fasteners and completely remove the bracket, but I'd just pull it backwards to "disconnect" it.
Again, if the airbag was replaced, most people don't disassemble this part, so the problem SHOULD have been taken care of, unless some other part is completing your ground even before this switch is engaged by being pushed in.

Word of caution.
For my comfort level, I do this kind of work with the battery still connected {HERE IS PROOF} and with the key fob on me so I can quickly test the HI horn after pushing the button, but that is just me. I understand how SRS systems work and trust that I am not deploying anything.
Please consult with a pro, or otherwise research before you trust your good looks to the advice of a stranger on an internet forum.

EdBwoy wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:21 pm

Bigboss, where are you located?


Can you identify whether the troublesome horn is the high horn (behind emblem in front grille) or the low horn (behind and under left headlight)?
...

Thanks for the response the horn is blaring continuously. I am located in Miramar Florida (basically Miami). And yes the troublesome horn is indeed the one behind the grill which I believe is the high horn. Earlier today I had my mechanic replace the clockspring (65 bucks) he did indeed remove the airbag and basically had to take apart the whole front area of the steering wheel colum. I’m not completely sure what it was but he was saying that the center in my steering wheel was off and even straightened it for me. He didn’t really look into the u bracket behind the airbag like what you’re describing as we both were kinda sure the problem was the clockspring (though unfortunately it wasn’t). My next step was to purchase a horn as he said the horn itself may be stuck but I’m very skeptical of that though I don’t mind trying as amazon has horns for 15 bucks. Also the airbag light being on is caused by a loose or worn out pretentioner on the right passenger side of the car. My mechanic ran his reader and the code b1081 popped up which was that. My mechanic is very busy and I’m not sure if he’ll want to fiddle around with the steering wheel again so if the issue is what you say it could be then I just might be sol.

He might be busy, but you're paying for labor and his time, right?

Anyway, I don't think a stuck horn would be the issue as it still has to be activated. A stuck relay is more likely if anything other than the switch is stuck.
The relay is energized by the horn switch - clockspring - ignition switch circuit. If for some reason this path is getting grounded, then the horn relay is getting completed then honking your horn... at which point I am thinking extended honk will over-amp and blow your fuse.
[For electrical gurus, correct me if I am wrong here]

But I read that you have already replaced your relay.


Say, now that you mention the belt tensioner, has your car ever been in an accident; that you know of?

I did buy a new relay and when I put it in I was still having the same problem so I just took it out and put back the old one. Maybe I’ll just put the new one in again and leave it. The horn has indeed blown a few fuses. It’s funny because the car needs a 15a fuse and one mechanic put in a 20a fuse which stopped the honking for a few hours but eventually came back. The fuse didn’t blow though so I just took it out. The car has been in an accident before but I’ve had the car for about a year and a half now it was only after hurricane Irma did the horn issue start happening. I will let my mechanic know about your post about the spring behind the airbag and see if maybe he can take a look at it. In the meantime i ordered a cheap horn off of amazon just to rule out the horn itself and if that isn’t the problem will just return it so it’s a low risk attempt. As for the pretensioner I read that a cable could just be loose under the car seat but yea I have no way of getting up under there.

bigboss4ak wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:05 pm

I did buy a new relay and when I put it in I was still having the same problem so I just took it out and put back the old one. Maybe I’ll just put the new one in again and leave it. The horn has indeed blown a few fuses. It’s funny because the car needs a 15a fuse and one mechanic put in a 20a fuse which stopped the honking for a few hours but eventually came back. The fuse didn’t blow though so I just took it out. ...

Very interesting. I don't know what it means, but it's provocative.

So an oversize fuse will temporarily stop the unwanted honking. Does the horn actually work normally during this time though?

EdBwoy wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:58 pm

bigboss4ak wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:05 pm

I did buy a new relay and when I put it in I was still having the same problem so I just took it out and put back the old one. Maybe I’ll just put the new one in again and leave it. The horn has indeed blown a few fuses. It’s funny because the car needs a 15a fuse and one mechanic put in a 20a fuse which stopped the honking for a few hours but eventually came back. The fuse didn’t blow though so I just took it out. ...

Very interesting. I don't know what it means, but it's provocative.

So an oversize fuse will temporarily stop the unwanted honking. Does the horn actually work normally during this time though?

Yep. Weird huh. The top mechanics here don’t know what’s going on lol.

EdBwoy wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:58 pm

bigboss4ak wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:05 pm

I did buy a new relay and when I put it in I was still having the same problem so I just took it out and put back the old one. Maybe I’ll just put the new one in again and leave it. The horn has indeed blown a few fuses. It’s funny because the car needs a 15a fuse and one mechanic put in a 20a fuse which stopped the honking for a few hours but eventually came back. The fuse didn’t blow though so I just took it out. ...

Very interesting. I don't know what it means, but it's provocative.

So an oversize fuse will temporarily stop the unwanted honking. Does the horn actually work normally during this time though?

Hey how are you wanted to clarify something with you about the car horn staying on. I was going to do what you suggested About checking the horn switch behind the airbag but before I attempted that I wanted to point out that the horn works fine when the car Is off it’s only when I start the car that the horn starts honking non stop. If the switch behind the airbag was indeed stuck then wouldn’t the horn blast even when the car is off??

mac,this kind of mystery needs to reference the full Factory wiring schematic of all the problematic areas and a good auto -electrician ought to trace the problem for I believe $$ 100 approx. (US dollars)

Pardon the late response. Life outside the forum had my attention fully grabbed.

...About checking the horn switch behind the airbag but before I attempted that I wanted to point out that the horn works fine when the car Is off it’s only when I start the car that the horn starts honking non stop. If the switch behind the airbag was indeed stuck then wouldn’t the horn blast even when the car is off??

You might be right about this. I thought the LO horn is the only one that worked with the car off and using the steering wheel switch... and the HI horn more for an alarm and traffic situations, hence the key in ignition.
OR maybe both horns come on together. (Very likely - they share the fuse, relay and triggers from what I can decipher in the FSM)

I am going off memory as I can't remember the last time I honked my horn intentionally. Well, not exactly. It seems that these days I have a lot of texting drivers swerving so I've been exercising the horn, but I can't tell the difference from inside the car at highway speeds.

I have another big project coming up in the next couple of weeks so maybe I'll unplug those horns to see which one works when:
1. Car off
2. Locking car with key fob
3. Panic button on fob
4. How are the above affected when:

1. The fuse is pulled
2. The relay is pulled

EdBwoy wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:48 pm

Pardon the late response. Life outside the forum had my attention fully grabbed.

...About checking the horn switch behind the airbag but before I attempted that I wanted to point out that the horn works fine when the car Is off it’s only when I start the car that the horn starts honking non stop. If the switch behind the airbag was indeed stuck then wouldn’t the horn blast even when the car is off??

You might be right about this. I thought the LO horn is the only one that worked with the car off and using the steering wheel switch... and the HI horn more for an alarm and traffic situations, hence the key in ignition.
OR maybe both horns come on together. (Very likely - they share the fuse, relay and triggers from what I can decipher in the FSM)

I am going off memory as I can't remember the last time I honked my horn intentionally. Well, not exactly. It seems that these days I have a lot of texting drivers swerving so I've been exercising the horn, but I can't tell the difference from inside the car at highway speeds.

I have another big project coming up in the next couple of weeks so maybe I'll unplug those horns to see which one works when:
1. Car off
2. Locking car with key fob
3. Panic button on fob
4. How are the above affected when:

1. The fuse is pulled
2. The relay is pulled

I think I may have finally fixed the issue though I won’t hold my breath but so far so good. So I left the horn behind the grill (high horn) connected and decided to disconnect the horn underneath the headlamp (low horn) I don’t know why I never checked the low horn but I decided to just to see if everything was good under there. Well when I pulled out the wires from the horn the end clamps on both wires were basically crumbling and falling apart which I’m sure was the result of the hurricane. The end clamps of the wires corroded the metal strips on the horn but thankfully the clamps were still usable. So I cleaned off the corrosion on the metal strips on the horn and cranked the car up and no horn honking. So since the high horn basically died out I replaced it with the horn I got from amazon but it’s a low horn. So I basically have two low horns installed but it’s loud enough for me so I don’t mind. I drove around for about an hour and cranked the car on and off a few times and still so far so good. I think the corrosion from the end clamps may have caused a grounding issue of some sorts. But either way I’m just happy the problem seems to be gone. I’ll let the car sit over night and if In the morning still no issue then yea I’ll chalk it up to that being the issue.

Lol, well then that's that! Kudos on showing the horn who's boss.

We (as well as you neighbors) will be waiting for your final update and this thread shall be marked as solved.
Seriously though, thanks for sharing your adventure. This is the kind of stuff that only happens on the forum. Unique problems, intetesting connections, thorough analysis and determined folks.

And here is something to keep mystery hunters entertained. The spade connectors on the LO horn should be facing away from each other, unlike the HI horn where they come in next to each other and could easily touch some frayed wires. I'm guessing the corrosion was completing the circuit through the metal body of the horn.

Isn't it funny that corrosion will make all the things you want to work, not work and at the same time make the things you don't want to come on, come on?

mac,according to above diagram (as supplied by the infamous EdBwoy - subscribe to his Yu-tube channel ! ) ,no connections on EITHER horn's both terminals should cause POWER to be energizing them. The only way either horn WILL sound is a grounding of the low-side terminal of horn relay that THEN goes to "spiral",then to "horn switch - where NOW pushing horn button SOUNDS both , if both are "healthy". There is very likely an intermittent short to ground at/around horn switch , but MOST likely at the "spiral " location - and here's how-Hurricane ? Salt water maybe ,worse even ? Cars 12v systems DO NOT NEED much "separation-distance" for insulating of nearby metal to metal regions , Copper WILL "Fluff-up" excess green - highly conducting oxide -which very often is flaky ,loose , and "migrates" at and around wires & metals doing the exact short to ground ,going back to lo-side relay coil leg.Most probable cause , and not being wiseguy ,but any horn terminal -according to THAT diagram - impossible to energize horns in the way surmised. Lastly a "man-in-the-moon" possibility of situation I describe occuring inside horn relay that shorts it's power contacts ?NO

Glad you got this issue sorted out. I'll file it away for use some day. How harrowing issues become simple when solved.

Well, unfortunately turns out I may have gotten excited too soon. Cut the car on went for a drive and about 3 mins in the horn honked on its own once, then 10 seconds later the dam thing started honking non stop again had to pull over and take the fuse out. At this point I think what Mac says might possibly be the cause?? I’m sorry but I’m not much of a mechanic guru but where exactly would I be able to locate that spiral cable?? Also yea I’m pretty bummed it really thought I’d be done with this issue. I’m gonna bring it to my mechanic again and do what ed suggested and take out the airbag and look to see what’s going on with that dam spring.

bigboss4ak wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:29 am

Well, unfortunately turns out I may have gotten excited too soon. Cut the car on went for a drive and about 3 mins in the horn honked on its own once, then 10 seconds later the dam thing started honking non stop again had to pull over and take the fuse out. At this point I think what Mac says might possibly be the cause?? I’m sorry but I’m not much of a mechanic guru but where exactly would I be able to locate that spiral cable?? Also yea I’m pretty bummed it really thought I’d be done with this issue. I’m gonna bring it to my mechanic again and do what ed suggested and take out the airbag and look to see what’s going on with that dam spring.

It happens. I wonder though how that short reprieve might be explained. Yes, I agree, go to the source of the power of the horn behind the clock spring.

Costee wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:50 am

bigboss4ak wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:29 am

Well, unfortunately turns out I may have gotten excited too soon. Cut the car on went for a drive and about 3 mins in the horn honked on its own once, then 10 seconds later the dam thing started honking non stop again had to pull over and take the fuse out. At this point I think what Mac says might possibly be the cause?? I’m sorry but I’m not much of a mechanic guru but where exactly would I be able to locate that spiral cable?? Also yea I’m pretty bummed it really thought I’d be done with this issue. I’m gonna bring it to my mechanic again and do what ed suggested and take out the airbag and look to see what’s going on with that dam spring.

It happens. I wonder though how that short reprieve might be explained. Yes, I agree, go to the source of the power of the horn behind the clock spring.

Ok so it’s either a problem with the left horns wiring or the horn itself. I wiggled the horn and the wiring and the issue went away again so somethings definitely going on down there. I’m still not ruling out the spring itself but just seems weird that twice now the problem goes away when I mess around with the left bottom horn. But yea I expect it to start acting up again I wonder if I should just take that horn completely off.

Yes, I would disconnect the horn completely and go from there.

If you find the horn is the culprit, you can pick up a used horn on eBay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/06-10-Infiniti ... SwjDZYZFQS