CA21DET Build

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
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themadscientist
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Way too short actually. The RB has an even shorter block than the CA. Ironically, if you were doing an RB30DE hybrid the CA belt is almost long enough for that.

You can't use the CA belt either, also too short.

None of the RB timing components will work. I won't go into detail why, but know that they won't; don't waste your money. Concentrate on your stroke work for now. That's something I haven't done and I am interested to see what combination you come up with.

You must not have machined the head yet or you would know that studs are not going to work, gotta use M12 capscrew bolts.


tommey
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Oh, okey!
I havent bought anything yet, just borrowed.
Still wanting an RB25 balancer.
I dont think i will stroke this one, maybe i will do it when i start with the other CD block i have.
Its unlikely, because i think its to much hassle for 92(?)cc extra.
I am not mainly looking for more torque, im looking for more reliability and the extra displacement is only a bonus for me.

I havent machined or welded my head yet.

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themadscientist
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I didn't see good cause to chase the RB balancer either. It goes on, but there's no real advantage to it that I can see. The CD's full counter crank should balance better than the CA's already and there are a few aftermarket balancers out there already for the CA crank.

It's just my opinion, but I think the gains in rod length and subsequent increased dwell time and better rod angles will be enough benefit to warrant the pursuit; it will make the CA's smallish ports breathe better and torque across the RPM range should be better. Combined with the stout cylinders sure to be resident in a diesel block and the thicker head bolts the engine should be a real tough customer.

tommey
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themadscientist wrote:I didn't see good cause to chase the RB balancer either. It goes on, but there's no real advantage to it that I can see. The CD's full counter crank should balance better than the CA's already and there are a few aftermarket balancers out there already for the CA crank.

It's just my opinion, but I think the gains in rod length and subsequent increased dwell time and better rod angles will be enough benefit to warrant the pursuit; it will make the CA's smallish ports breathe better and torque across the RPM range should be better. Combined with the stout cylinders sure to be resident in a diesel block and the thicker head bolts the engine should be a real tough customer.
I want to use a ROSS RB25 ballancer because they make bolt-on dry sump drives for them.
I also wont have to use electric servo if i go for one of those.

I`ll try to figure out everything but internals before i decide, i do all the machining myself and im not sure if i want to spend that amount of time on the crank.

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themadscientist
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Well there is so much beef on the crank's rod journals you could get a few more mms of stroke with no discernible loss in strength. I decided not to because machine work is stupid expensive over here and the Japanese are not comfortable with weird s*** like this. As far as I know, you and I are the only one with engines to work with and it sounds like you have your own equipment and the knowledge to do it so if not you, who? :poke:

tommey
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I am not concerned with the strenght of the crank, no doubt it has plenty of "beef".
I think the rod journals are about 5mm bigger than the CA. wich means i can stroke it to 92mm without any problems.
I have two CD20 bottoms, i am on the hunt for a thrid.
Nothing is decided yet regarding stroking, i havent eliminated it completely yet.

A friend of mine also has a CD bottom he is going to use for this purpose :)

1200ute
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You can get a dry sump drive for the MJ Race ROSS ballancer for the CA18 as well. It might not suit your purpose as it is only a single belt drive (no PS or AC) and i'm not sure if they dry sump drives bolt up to the metal jacket pulleys. Ross have some pretty interesting photos/products in the "New Products" link which aren't on there main website.

tommey
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Do they really fit the CA18 balancer?
I dont need AC, but i would like to keep the PS belt.

Vetal
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Great when someone is doing smth. innovative and useful for all S13 lovers.

1200ute
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Yeah, I enquired direct to Ross about it last year. You might want to check with them whether it only suits the single row MJ race though. Your other option to drive PS would be to run it off the pump drive belt as well - this link shows an RB setup that Ross has developed (the second article down) http://blog.rossperformanceparts.com/ca ... ior-parts/

tommey
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Ok, i will try to get in touch with them again.

Maybe i`ll make a "clean" set of valve covers.

Image

Image

1200ute
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I'm planning on doing the same with a set of cam/valve covers. I bought a set of FWD de ones as they don't have the humps on them to start with.

tommey
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Oh, maybe i should try to get some covers from the DE!
I didnt know that.

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has to be a fwd DE.

tommey
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Ok, i have never seen one of those before..

b13TD
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I really like the direction this build is heading, and look forward to the developments. I also wonder what head bolts or studs you are going to use. Themadscientist, why must you use M12 capscrew bolts?

Tommey, what is the length of the stock CD20 head bolts?

I actually came upon this thread whilst searching for head studs to use on a superturbo CD20T engine. I found ARP 202-4702 may or may not be the right part number, and that at least for CA18 engines, the stock head bolts are not stretch to yield types. Are the ARP head studs any good for high power CA18 engines? I am not having any issues with the head gasket, but want to "clamp down" on any future problems when the boost and fuel are increased, so the studs may be worthwhile for me.

Tommey, when you do get the engine running, I can attest that the full counterweight crank may indeed be quite smooth at higher rpms. At least in the CD20T, even at 6k+ rpms, I am amazed how smooth this engine feels, especially for a diesel, and even for a petrol engine. The engine almost feels balance shaft equipped.

TheMAN
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ummm no
the CA head bolts ARE torque to yield... any time you torque the bolts to a fixed level, then add another turn or two in specified angles, it is a torque to yield spec!

tommey
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b13TD wrote:I really like the direction this build is heading, and look forward to the developments. I also wonder what head bolts or studs you are going to use. Themadscientist, why must you use M12 capscrew bolts?

Tommey, what is the length of the stock CD20 head bolts?

I actually came upon this thread whilst searching for head studs to use on a superturbo CD20T engine. I found ARP 202-4702 may or may not be the right part number, and that at least for CA18 engines, the stock head bolts are not stretch to yield types. Are the ARP head studs any good for high power CA18 engines? I am not having any issues with the head gasket, but want to "clamp down" on any future problems when the boost and fuel are increased, so the studs may be worthwhile for me.

Tommey, when you do get the engine running, I can attest that the full counterweight crank may indeed be quite smooth at higher rpms. At least in the CD20T, even at 6k+ rpms, I am amazed how smooth this engine feels, especially for a diesel, and even for a petrol engine. The engine almost feels balance shaft equipped.
I dont know the length of the CD20 headbolts, i must buy some and see if i can use them on the CA head.

The CD bolts are m12 vs the CA`s m10, and i dont use ARP headstuds on any of my engines and i do not recomend them to others either.
The ARP`s are not bad, but i would stick to the stock bolts if i were you.


Thanks for compliments on my project! :)

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themadscientist
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You can't They are too long. You need these.

Image

CA18 on left, CD20 in the middle, the magic bolt on the right has all the correct dimensions.

b13TD
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Thanks for the replies, I think all my questions are now answered! It does look like I will keep the stock head bolts, and it is one less thing I need to purchase as well.

Tommey, it looks like you have a CD20T block. I am not sure if there are any differences between the CD20 and CD20T with regard to metallurgy, etc, but it probably does not hurt to have the turbo block.

Also, do you have any concerns about the sealing rings on the head gasket around the prechamber area? Since it reads that you will use copper o-rings (gas rings), that area should be largely or fully sealed off from the combustion chamber.

tommey
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I do not have the prechambers because i will use the CA gasoline head.
I am not going to use the diesel gasket either, i will use a custom gasket with the CA water passages ect.

I have some RB26 wich seems to work, i see they are different from yours TMS?

Here`s a CA bolt besides a RB26 bolt:

Image

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themadscientist
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;)

Image

tommey
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:)
Whats that bolt you have?
Looks different

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themadscientist
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It's an RB26. You can't use the RB26 washer though, at least not with the way I clearanced my head. Use the CA18 one.

tommey
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themadscientist wrote:It's an RB26. You can't use the RB26 washer though, at least not with the way I clearanced my head. Use the CA18 one.
Why? is the diameter of the washer too big?

tommey
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Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

tommey
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The dry-sump pump seems to almost perfectly bolt up to the side of the block with no bracket and little machining (for clearancing).
Seems pretty straight forward from now.

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float_6969
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Nice! I like the shot from the bottom of the block looking "up" the cylinder into the head.

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themadscientist
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It's like an upskirt shot and the girl ain't wearing no panties. I can see right up her ports.

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float_6969
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Isn't "ain't wearing no" a double negative? :poke:


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