ca18det cams

[zero_gripS13]

ok im gona use the ca18 for drifting.. im interested in cam upgrades.. ones most suited for drifting.. regrind or whatever..dee i read u know a good regrinder.. do u know what kind of powercurve they produce and if they good for drifitng also how much is it or where can i contact the company..umm yea...please dont close thread this could fill up with nice information for others
Modified by zero_gripS13 at 2:11 PM 7/1/2005

[c-rad]

Not to rain on your parade or anything, but I think cams are only going to hurt your drifting dreams. Unless you're holding the motor between 6000-7500 rpms the whole time....

[zero_gripS13]

whys is this???

please give more detail.. so ur saying the stock cams would be best for drifting

[azncorruptedo17]

whys is this???

please give more detail.. so ur saying the stock cams would be best for drifting

yea... need more info on this too give us info c-rad!

[themadscientist]

the stock cams are fine, Worry about your driving. If I can slide a CA18DE, you can slide a CA18DET.

[zero_gripS13]

im just saying... a nice cam upgrade could keep the powerband in a nicer area for drifting ....

also doesnt the ca18det head come with stiff valvesprings and titanium retainers form the factory...

[sdtouge]

save your money and get more track time.

b the way it sounds cams arent going to help you at all, drifting is all practice and skill.

sure your boncing off the limiter alot, but also you are on and off throttle all the time, so if it got down low and started to bog it wouldnt be as fun i guess.

[c-rad]

yea... need more info on this too give us info c-rad!

I'm just saying, cams move the power band UP the RPM range meaning the torque to break the wheels loose will be at a higher rpm.

[8ggalant]

if he gets a set of 256's its not gonna move his power band that high...cams come w/ diff specs...yes 272s/280s are gonna be useless for "drift car"... i think you guys should be more specific when answering questions...dee posted his seperate dyno sheets a while back and even his 264s didnt have a BAD power band...and yes Skill is the main issue in drifting but a little more power makes it easier (for sum cars/drivers) to bring the rear around

so to answer yer question...like a few of the guys said...track time is much more valuable than any POWER upgrade BUT...

cams CAN help...id look into a cam set made for midrange...if im not mistaken 264's arent too bad but dont quote me...i know the 256's would be perfect foryour app as u want more midrange/low end

[themadscientist]

im just saying... a nice cam upgrade could keep the powerband in a nicer area for drifting ....

also doesnt the ca18det head come with stiff valvesprings and titanium retainers form the factory...

dude, just stop it. You are not racing F1, it's drifting. Guys out there who are good can drift anything, a cam swap will make no discernable difference, don't get caught up in gimmicks. Practice practice practice

no CAs didn't come from Nissan with Titanium retainers, they come from JUN that way though!

[zero_gripS13]

u telling me to stop.. yall need to stop flaming me for being interested in setting my car up for what i intend to use it for... cams dont do **** exzhaust dont do **** ... i mean **** lets all go drift stock cars...

cams have a big play on where the powerband falls,,, the ca18det has a hard enough time keeping the power on from what i hear (mostly geared toward stock cars ) and i have herd drifitng it is compared to drifing a underpowered car.. so i will not stop in gathering information on how to make the engine better and u guys need to stop trying to make me do so ...

[zero_gripS13]

i dont care that u guys dont care about drifitng.. the only reason i brought it up so u knwo what type of powercurve i was looking for to aid u in repsonces.. i was giving detail... all i was looking for is what type cams are good to use to keep the power in the range for drifitng ..

[themadscientist]

c-rad, ease off please, thanks.

kid, I am not flaming you. You are 78-posts in, you don't know me so take your ridalin and listen to what I am telling you.

Now look at you last post. Do you see your frequent use of "from what I hear" and "I have been told". That tells me you are new to the CA and possibly haven't even driven one so you have not a milligram of personal experience which is not a crime. I have been wrenching on them for about 8 years. I have drifted with them and other types of engines and cars for longer. Your attempt to gather knowledge is a good step however when you ask a question and you get an answer that you discount because you don't like it, that is ignorant. You asked here for a reason, because there are people here who know. Do not get pissy if the response you get does not support your own personal paradigm. I am not trying to prevent you from gathering information, you asked the question, I gave you an educated answer. If you want to drift your money and time would be better spent preparing the engine for the brutal beating it's going to get as you drift rather than a gimmick.I say "gimmick" because looking at the way you phrase your questions you think a laundry list of expensive parts is required in order to drift. It is not, that is why I don't reccomend cams, not because they don't influence the powerband but because you want them for the wrong reasons.

What I said still stands, A stock CA18DET has more than enough power to slide you wherever you want to go. The basic mods I would suggest is a full exhuast from the turbine back, a quality medium sized intercooler, a better radiator and pull the center coil cover.

[sdtouge]

my car is setup for drift, i have been to like 5 events in the past month. i have stock cams and can drift third gear with the ca no problem at willow springs raceway.

if you are just starting, or first couple events, you will suck for a while doesnt matter if you have coilovers, 2 way, cams, or a ca18 for that matter.

2nd gear ca can spin liek crazy for drifitng and there is enough power to dso it all the way to 7700.

dont talk **** to the other people on here, they tried to help telling you to save your money etc.

[8ggalant]

u guys are a trip...i think i am the only person that even attempted to answer his question...maybe if sumone had just said sure a nice cam set up for u to use for midrange power (the area u tend to use to stay sideways) then thats all that was needed...but he didnt get that...all i saw was the same attitude alot of people get which might as well been quoted as "SEARCH NOOB"...thats the vibe i got and i dont even know this guy...a cam setup for midrange will help...now if he's a noob to drifting then no, all the power in the world wont help much like sdtouge and themadscientist said...but thats not what he asked,...he got defensive because of how u guys worded yer responses...just my .02

[boost_boy]

ok im gona use the ca18 for drifting.. im interested in cam upgrades.. ones most suited for drifting.. regrind or whatever..dee i read u know a good regrinder.. do u know what kind of powercurve they produce and if they good for drifitng also how much is it or where can i contact the company..umm yea...please dont close thread this could fill up with nice information for others

Modified by zero_gripS13 at 2:11 PM 7/1/2005

Don't worry, if it was going to be closed, it wouldn't be by me. If you're going to use the car strictly for drifting, then leave it the way is and learn the techniques. If you're going to use the car as dual function recreation vehicle (drift/drag), then the HKS 264s with the 8.5mm lift is good to go. The grind I use on my cams are all documented by colt cams in canada. If you want those specs, just drop them an email and explain to the man that you want my 1st grind's specs on your cams. These are very good for the average drifter/street racer. Listen to the mad one on this topic! This is his area and I care not to venture too deep in it. I drive a sentra and have no room, patience, nor money to drift .

Dee

[zero_gripS13]

ok..yes i am a noob to the ca..but i am gathering info..if u guys would of stuck to the question it would of been easier.. i appreciate all ur opinions, and they help change my way of thinking.. i dont intend to go for 300-400hp and start drifting..im mainly doing maintenance and some goodies when i do my swap.. but i like to think a head. i like to have a plan made.. in my eyes.. cams are a nice bang for the buck.. so when i get good at drifting or what not.. id like to know how and what type of parts i should think about adding to give me more performance..honestly i dont know the difference between 256 and 265 and 272 cams.. besides the high the number the more aggressive and more it focuses ur power band to the upper reigon..thats why i was asking.. i was trying to figure out which cam was a good midrange cam.. maybe i didnt word it best.. but emphasizing on drifting would imply how i want my powerband and was ment to help u choose some cam idea that would be good for drifintg.. i got deffensive because i tried to ask a question and all i got is.. dont do it.. not point.. and a bunch of flames..(atleast thats how it seemed to me)...8ggalant was the only one to actually try to help me.... so ya i overreacted and i didnt mean to start **** with people i dont know, but honestly u guys havent seemed to friendly from the start...

but its all said and done with.. anyone down for some beer? i know i could use a drink

[themadscientist]

ah, now I am hearing you better. I think you will find I am all for looking foward and building for tommorow, that is a good strategy. Let me ask you a few questions so i can tailor my answer to your needs.

How much power do you want? I'm hearing you want streetable power = low down not too peaky.

How much are you willing to do from a money and labor/mechanical perspective?

If you just want like 300hp all day long I would suggest the following. It may seem like a lot for such a small figure but I am really a proponent of overengineering for the future.

rebuild the engine, Yeah I know Can you take it out of the crate and drop it in, yeah probably but it's an old motor and it's been abused. Time and money spent at the outset is money well spent towards reliability. Nothing crazy, just a thorough cleaning; hot tank the block and have it checked for cracks, clean the head, again look for cracks (never seen one cracked but better safe than sorry). Have the crank checked for straightness and a quality balancing would be money well spent especially for a drifting engine that lives in the rough part of town. A nice set of forged pistons in fresh bores would be good. I honestly beleive that new cast pistons would survive but why skimp, get the little bit of extra insurance or as Chris Rock calls it "in case ****". have the decks of both the head and block checked for straightness. It would be a good idea to have the valves and guides replaced. They may be "servicable" but the whole logic is do it now and never worry about it. Stock valves and guides are adequate, bronze ones if you wish. Now with this already being a revver and the whole drifting thing ensuring it spends time up there definately prepare the valvetrain. springs and titanium retainers and a set of solid lifters and accompanying cams. I just checked the Tomei site and they do make a smaller 260-degree cam to work with their solid lifters. I am away from my library so I am trying to remember, I beleive OE is 248 on the exhuast side so I think you won't lose too much on the bottom end. There are two lifts though; 9.25 and 10.25. I suggest you talk to Boost Boy about selection, he is much more knowledgable than me on that. You could get cam sprockets but honestly unless you have a dyno in your garage your never going to mess with them effectively and if they loosen up, ouch!Just stick with stock sprockets but a Pwers HD timing belt would be a sensible investment. I personally have never snapped a timing belt but it does happen and it hurts. It would be beneficial to polish the combustion chambers to fight detonation some people grind out the quench areas but it would seem to me that that is a big boost top end mod so I wouldn't suggest that. At the minimum portmatch the head to the manifolds. Make the exhuast side a bit smaller than the manifold though to fight reversion. Porting? I really think people tend to overdoo it, I would just clean up the runners, remove casting flash and blend the short side radius (your head shop should know what to do) If you go crazy and hog out the ports you lose velocity and that is diametricly opposed to what you want, that would make it a top end flowmonster and you want lowdown pull. put it together with a nice metal head gasket, any will do at this level but be mindful of the thickness as it alters your compression. On the subject of compression, I am not experienced with running CAs on stateside pumpgas, get the opinions of the other guys on what is best. For drifting where you want low-down responsive power I would go as high as the fuel would allow and keep the boost lower. Of course new water pump and oil pump (there is no difference in the DE and DET, I researched the Nissan PN, doublecheck though because I looked at S13 DE pump you would be looking at pulsar FWD DE pumps) Something I hear nobody talking about is a baffled oil pan, tisk tisk. With you sliding around corners the oil is sloshing around and there is a good possibility that you will expose the oil pickup, ouch. CAs always seem to fail from my experience from oiling issues, a simple baffle built into the pan would keep the oil contained and consistently feeding the pump. Another benefit is the oil won't rise up and crash into the spinning crankshaft so you reduce windage. There is a lot of debate about the CA intake and the secondary butterflies. For a streetable linear-feeling motor I vote leave them in and retain the factory manifold. The CA throttlebody is fine as well, yes it's small but we are going for response and the vacuum is more intense when you crack the smaller throttle to get that colomn of air moving until the boost starts pushing. There is supposed to be one of the KA throttles that is bigger, you could experiment and see which one works best. The Cast iron manifold is adequate, a nice tubular stainless one would flow better though. A nice medium sized actuated BB turbo would be a good choice but be sure to ditch the cast iron outlet for a tubular one, BIG IMROVEMENT in response. A motor like this is going to need more fuel, a set of 550s and an upgraded in-tank pump should do you with a Z32 AFM. Engine management is a whole nother thread and there are great ones already so check those out and decide what is best for you. IMO, and I picture you as a working stiff like myself who doesn't want a lot of BS just a clean running car with some nuts and endurance for a fair price, I would say get the ECU burned for the combination and then a piggyback like and SAFC to make minor day-to-day tweaks for increased boost and fuel pressures. Clutch, a good sports clutch, sprung not solid should do you fine. Radiator, man spend some money on cooling, good aluminum radiator with electric fans and an oil cooler. Drifting is a mean thing to do to an engine and it needs quality cooling, don't pinch pennies here treat your motor right, a girl likes to be wined and dined if she is going to put out

[biosehnsucht]

lets all go drift stock cars...

I used to drift my 96 Chevy S10 pickup.I have drifted my mom's Saturn station wagon (early 90's model, 2nd or 3rd year they were making cars)I have drifted rentals (Dodge Neon, Pontiac Sunfire, Chevy C1500)

I am by no means a drift expert, and would stand no chance at a competition, but I can get pretty much anything FWD/RWD controllably (by which I mean, I might look like an idiot but I haven't wrecked anything yet) showily sideways or do actual fast cornering drifts; the only thing I've had no chance to try is anything 4WD/AWD, I've done the FWD/RWD thing.

Now, when I say drift, I'm usually referring to some nice four wheel drifting (fast cornering drifting) where I may be sometimes only a few degrees sideways, with minor counter steering, not some showy perpendicular to the road ****, altho there's been some of that too (mostly in my truck).

You CAN drift stock ****. Hell, in some ways crappy suspensions help to set up begginers' drifts.. and while there are alot of aftermarket odds and ends you can upgrade with to make drifting easier and more controllable, you don't NEED them to drift. Maybe to win a drift compo, but you need skill first regardless.

[zero_gripS13]

thanks for all the informtion.. honestly we do think alot... i plan on buying a second ca to do forge internal and what not, since my budget cant fit all thoise goodies. but basically i want a nice running car that i can go on the weekend and drift.. ..thanks for the oil pump info thats one thing i was trying to find out..for the chiped ecu do i just tell em my mods and they make a chip.. would the chip and s-afc really be better than just an s-afc..

along with ym swap i was gona do z32 mafr, 550s injector, walkbro or similar fuel pump, and an s-afc all tuned on a dyno ..would this setup be fine to run on stock turbo until i get an upgrade?

once again thanks for this info..

[themadscientist]

I would bet C-rad's left testicle that when you get the donor motor the turbo will be munched. Every CA I have worked with had a busted turbo, they were too small, so definately expect to put a new turbo on it immediately. A possible doner might be the driver's side turbo off a VG30DETT but talk to the Z guys about the stats on those.

As far as the ROM, a good sign that you got a good dude burning your ECU is if he insists on putting the car on the rollers to tune it. The air quality in your area and the precise dynamics of your car are unique and "map #3459" is going to be close but not exact, get it burned for your car.The SAFC alone could do it but that's a piggyback and deviating too far from the base maps makes me nervous. By having the optimal maps burned in as your baseline you will be making 2-3% corrections rather than 25-40% and I just think that is a better way to go. You could throw the SAFC in it to get it running well enough to drive to the tech for the chip burn.

[zero_gripS13]

i dont have people who tune ecus for these cars and engine where i live.. id have to get one from other shops out of state thats why i was thinking just the pickyback

[themadscientist]

well again, a tuned computer would get you closer than a stock one so you would not have to correct so much with the SAFC so if off-the-shelf ROM tune is what you can get that is what I would get.

[zero_gripS13]

ok ill look into that thanks....

should i go ahead and get it written to a s14 turbo since tharts what i plan on trying to get...and use the s-afc to correct any rich problems i have

[CA19DET]

i think cams would be a great idea, especially if upgrading the turbo and exhaust...

the TOMEI 260* PROCam Kit i have operates from ~4000rpm and drifiting a CA18 and most 4 cylinders you are usually if not always in boost/above 4000rpms so you'll always be in the cam's efficeint rpms.. just my 2c

who drifts at 2-3000rpm?? V8's that about it.. everytime i go drifitng (trying to lol) i am always bouncing off the rev limiter in 2nd and mostly 3rd.. always in boost, always making power..

along with all the suggested mods and track time, i say GO FOR IT.

[WeldingHank]

my stock CA turbo lasted 15000 miles at 12psi. when i took it off, i expected it to have lots of shaft play and what not. but when i switched, it still felt as tight as stock.

[8ggalant]

i think cams would be a great idea, especially if upgrading the turbo and exhaust...

the TOMEI 260* PROCam Kit i have operates from ~4000rpm and drifiting a CA18 and most 4 cylinders you are usually if not always in boost/above 4000rpms so you'll always be in the cam's efficeint rpms.. just my 2c

who drifts at 2-3000rpm?? V8's that about it.. everytime i go drifitng (trying to lol) i am always bouncing off the rev limiter in 2nd and mostly 3rd.. always in boost, always making power..

along with all the suggested mods and track time, i say GO FOR IT.

exactly my point

[flohtingPoint]

I would bet C-rad's left testicle that when you get the donor motor the turbo will be munched. Every CA I have worked with had a busted turbo, they were too small, so definately expect to put a new turbo on it immediately.

Yea, I'll take that bet also. Every CA I've turned over here in the junk yards of Germany has had a thrashed T25 attached to it.

[biosehnsucht]

My turbo is just peachy so far! I don't even have ANY oil in the IC piping last I checked, despite the engine being in quite sorry shape itself before the rebuild.

the other one tho, has alot of side to side shaft play lol

[zero_gripS13]

i hope the turbo is atleast ok to use for a feww motnhs till i get an s14 one