BRZ Drivetrain Swap Clearance issue?

[Veganpotter]

I haven't taken my engine out yet so I haven't been able to measure clearance low in the engine bay(since the boxer is so low). I've read mixed readings of 32" and 31". The engine I'm hoping to swap in is 31.5".

Anyone know if its 32 or maybe a tad more? Or if its easy to hammer out an extra inch?

[NolimitZ32]

Not sure about the F series boxers but I've built a couple EJs and they are much smaller vertically, not sure horizontally. Which brings me to my question, what dimension are you asking for?

[Veganpotter]

The width between the strut towers, and the width low in the bay.

[Ace2cool]

I can measure it later today, I've got my engine out.

[Veganpotter]

Awesome!!!! I really appreciate it. I actually just bit the bullet and bought the engine and transmission. Hopefully your numbers mean no panel modification will be needed

[Ace2cool]

Depends on how fast it gets wide, and with it being a boxer, I'd say it's probably as wide at the bottom as it is the top.

Between the towers, it's a whopping 33". Down lower, just above the engine mounts, and up from there for about 12", only 29" wide. Bonus measurement of 23-ish from mount to mount.

[Veganpotter]

Awesome, thanks for doing that!!! I know the 2+2 is a bit wider. Hopefully a bit of that is in the engine bay too. There's a good chance I'm going to have to modify the panels if that's not the case. Hopefully there's clearance with the actual struts.

[Ace2cool]

Everything from the steering wheel forward is identical between 2 seater and 2+2 unfortunately.

[DCaff300ZX]

Awesome, thanks for doing that!!! I know the 2+2 is a bit wider. Hopefully a bit of that is in the engine bay too. There's a good chance I'm going to have to modify the panels if that's not the case. Hopefully there's clearance with the actual struts.

Sorry, as mentioned the 2+2 is only longer and mostly the wheelbase, not wider anywhere...same platform just stretched a tad longer.

[Veganpotter]

I just took a quick peak at the narrow portion. I'm hoping that's just an enclosed area for wiring or something. It seems like its fairly thin metal and I'm hoping its not structural...
Ha, if it is, I'm going to need to get a different drivetrain than what's on its way

[evildky]

So you're putting a BRZ drivetrain into a Z32? I'm sorry, I'm into weird stuff but this one makes no sense. 200 hp motor from a 2600 lb car into a 3200 lb car that came with 222 hp....???

I've driven the toyobaru's and they are great little cars, fantastic chassis, great use of space, light weight, I just don't trust that subaru engine. If they came with a toyota engine I'd have one.

[Ace2cool]

Dave, we've already hashed all that out. He seems to think that putting a smaller engine in is more eco-friendly.

[evildky]

Thought he wanted eco friendly 400 hp?

Obviously 400 hp can be had with forced induction but something like the SR would fit better and do the same job without the subaru head gasket issues. I'm told the newer subaru engines use timing chains. Historically you did your timing belt and head gaskets at the same time on subie's.

[NolimitZ32]

Thought he wanted eco friendly 400 hp?

Obviously 400 hp can be had with forced induction but something like the SR would fit better and do the same job without the subaru head gasket issues. I'm told the newer subaru engines use timing chains. Historically you did your timing belt and head gaskets at the same time on subie's.

Not sure which part of history you're referring to but in my fairly extensive experience with EJ205s 207s 255s and 257s head gaskets have never been a failure point, now ringlands, that's another story.

[evildky]

Ring lands, guessing those are all turbo motors? I hear the turbo's are built a bit better but for the N/A's the head gaskets tend to last as long as the timing belt. Granted that might have to do with the owners who buy an appliance and ignore service until there is a problem.

Yep, those are all turbo engines, why would anyone buy a Subbie without forced induction,

[Ace2cool]

I just took a quick peak at the narrow portion. I'm hoping that's just an enclosed area for wiring or something. It seems like its fairly thin metal and I'm hoping its not structural...
Ha, if it is, I'm going to need to get a different drivetrain than what's on its way

Just saw this. The narrow portion is the forward portion of the frame rails of the unibody. It's a continuation of the structural portion where the jack points are.

[Veganpotter]

Looks like I'm going to be cutting, boxing and reinforcing the frame. Can't be less safe than taking out your airbag for a racing steering wheel.

[Veganpotter]

So you're putting a BRZ drivetrain into a Z32? I'm sorry, I'm into weird stuff but this one makes no sense. 200 hp motor from a 2600 lb car into a 3200 lb car that came with 222 hp....???

I've driven the toyobaru's and they are great little cars, fantastic chassis, great use of space, light weight, I just don't trust that subaru engine. If they came with a toyota engine I'd have one.

Evildky, the SR is easy but its a pain in the a** to even pass emissions AT ALL. I want my car to meet emissions standards of a new car. I'd love a Toyota engine too but they aren't spitting out modern RWD drivetrains outside of their guzzling trucks and I can't afford an engine out of a new Lexus SC. Emissions for me also mean gas production emissions in addition my car's exhaust. I know people getting close to 40mpg on the highway in their 100% stock BRZs and we have high speed limits in Utah. 70 and even 80 on some places.

[evildky]

I call BS on difficulty getting an SR to pass emissions. The problem isn't the motor, it's the users, a lean tune and a catalytic converter, I'm confident would pass federal emissions. The sr20ve made the same power as your subie plant and was 50 state legal emissions.

The subie engine is one of few that have their widest point in the same plane as the crank, only rotary and porsche shares this issue, and those piston engines live i chassis made to accommodate that design. Every other engine is narrow at the plane of the crank and most cars have chassis frame rails closer together as the engines aren't wide. Subie engine swap into a corvair, or 914 would be cool, into a Z it's just more difficult than just about any other choice and isn't any better than the other easier choices available.

[Veganpotter]

An SR20 CAN pass emissions but not as a new car. My goal is to have to same emissions of a new car. The standards for a 20yr old car aren't the same as a new car. Also, running lean can cause less complete combustion. SR20 aren't designed to run lean like some engines. When they are ran that way, emissions go up
And I'm aware this is gonna be a pain in the a**

[NolimitZ32]

If you are aware of all this why didn't you go for one of the Gen 1 Skyactiv drive-trains? With the amount of custom fab you are going to be doing you could've easily converted a transverse engine into a longitudinal setup, and as far as I know they are the most efficient (and therefore emissions friendly) engines currently in the mass market. What are you really trying to achieve?

Your efficiency is always going to be based on the tune more than anything, you CAN get an SR to run as clean as almost any newer engine, you just may make a little less power.

[Veganpotter]

Ha, ok dude...

I actually wanted a Miata engine and transmission as the Skyactiv engines are surely the cleanest around. In speaking with Miata experts and the friend helping me with the swap(a Mazda and Subaru whiz). They said it won't play nice in my car until I can get a standalone ECU which nobody makes yet. They're only for the last gen Miatas. And I'm going to be maybe $7k in with the total swap and maybe as low as $5500. A FWD conversion won't be that cheap after buying everything.

And yes, tune is important but it's not everything. Japan stopped making the SR for a reason and that reason was emissions. But they could have just tuned it right? Tuning for better gas mileage isn't the same thing as tuning for better emissions. The thing just doesn't burn clean, there's no way around that other than running e85. I'd run e85 anyway if I could get it. There's only one station 10 miles away and I never go to that area. The next closest is 40 miles away.

[NolimitZ32]

I'm done, Good luck with your endeavor.

[Veganpotter]

Be done. It really is simple science and not opinion at all. Efficiency alone isn't necessarily clean. A Hummer from 2002 is cleaner than a 60s Beatle getting 55mpg. And that Hummer is cleaner than the 79 Vette(with its new cat) I had in HS. Even though I got over 25mpg on the highway with it vs getting maybe 12mpg. I have friends who've had terrible trouble passing emissions with SRs, even though the standards aren't very high. Even though they were getting 35mpg with cats. My VG30 came in about half of what I could have gotten away with in all categories. Those numbers wouldn't pass for a new car. My car will pass with numbers of a new car off the lot