BREAKING NEWS: Nissan Skyline Seized

Post by **VandrelSOUSA** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:26 pm

Also to add, 5 folks from GTRCanada were refused entry into the U.S. via NY because the CBP agent said their cars were not equipped with DOT approved equipment (ie: headlights, glass, etc.) and furthermore that RHD vehicles were illegal in the U.S.

As a result those people lost their money they had for their reserved hotel rooms to attend a NY car show.

Misinformed government employees with a personal agenda and misusing their authority. This error costs Canadian citizens money and a inconvenience of their time.

Matters like these should be reported to the local U.S. Embassy as well as CBP online complaint system in order to bring serious administrative effects to the employees in question. CBP is required to respond to all complaints within 1 business day to try and settle the dispute/claim.

When a government employee with CBP tells a international citizen that they are "just going to try and sell their car" while in the U.S. and thus they cannot enter with said vehicle, then we have a problem and it requires serious attention. Issues such as these generally would result in a mass-agency notifcation and policy education for employees to ensure no future incidents happen.

Post by **AZhitman** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:54 pm

Interesting that some pinhead Canuck thinks he's an expert on US law.

RHD vehicles are NOT illegal in the US. How the hell do they think our mail gets delivered?

I'd say those 5 have good grounds for a lawsuit, even if it's just for the lost hotel funds. I'm thinking this warrants a separate thread, especially if we can get the 5 affected individuals to give their account of the incident.

Post by **VandrelSOUSA** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:12 pm

AZhitman wrote:Interesting that some pinhead Canuck thinks he's an expert on US law.

mm just to clarify, CBP is Customs Border Patrol, not Canadian Border Patrol

The pinhead was saddly one of our "special children".

SOURCE: http://forums.gtrcanada.com/general-sky ... -show.html

Post by **AZhitman** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:17 pm

Ah - My bad.

That's even worse. OK, now I'm REALLY interested.

Post by **VandrelSOUSA** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:19 pm

AZhitman wrote:Ah - My bad.

That's even worse. OK, now I'm REALLY interested.

Yup and I would have loved to toss this in their face if it was me they were pushing around.

Nonresidents may import a vehicle duty-free for personal use up to (1) one year if the vehicle is imported in conjunction with the owner’s arrival. Vehicles imported under this provision that do not conform to U.S. safety and emission standards must be exported within one year and may not be sold in the U.S. There is no exemption or extension of the export requirements.

Motorists visiting the United States as tourists from countries that have ratified the Convention on International Road Traffic of 1949 may drive in the U.S. for one year with their own national license plates (registration tags) on their own national license plates (registration tags) on their cars and with their own personal drivers’ licenses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Con ... ad_Traffic

Key article

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/trade/basic_ ... #FreeEntry

Post by **breadbox** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:37 pm

That's dumb to not let in a visiting person due to the vehicle they are traveling in, especially if the purpose of the visit is a car show or event.

Post by **Ben_Jammin88** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:48 pm

just got a link to vndrel's seizure and found this topic following some links and others there and had to join SAN and Nico forum to help any way i can. posting as many links as i can to help spread the word!! glad to see the thread back on topic and hope to see this get some things changed!

Post by **nitrous36** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:03 pm

Hey this is nitrous36. Ive been a long time follower and lurker of the skyline and other jdm imports situation. I used to post on Automotiveforums and sometimes freshalloy a long time ago. Then later went to lurking on other forums to keep up to date on the conflicts and other info regarding our f*** up import laws and regulations. Always looking and hoping for change.

As a fan of skylines and other jdm models there a few dream cars I would like to someday import and drive. And a lot sooner if it werent for our screwed up system. Ive been following this for years and know the laws inside and out. While searching some things on google I came across your blog then later on this thread. I signed up to wish you good luck on your situation and the long hard fight, one that motorex definitely made harder for everyone else.

Anyone remember Evolution Imports LLC?

They didnt help make anything easier for us either. I have been around and following this since the motorex/J&K days and all the events to unfold though the years. This definitely has the makings of a good movie. Good luck to everyone involved. But knowing our gov't. I really dont think anything is going to come of this. Change comes slow or not at all. Especially here in the good ol' U.S of A. Even the manufacturers(import and domestic) struggle with this to an extent when trying to bring over new models. I kind of doubt we'll see any major changes or can do anything convincing to make them change their minds and hardset beliefs on imports and keeping them out. I would like to see the 25 year rule reduced to 20(which is much fairer, and you can forget about 15).

And even thats a stretch.

Post by **mechanicalmoron** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:10 am

Axoure Dragonkin wrote:I love how almost every poster on discussion has blamed the govt for over reaching, treading on the peoples rights, spending too much money, having nothing better to do, Obama being a Muslim, not showing us a birth certificate, death panels for grandma, taking over health care, mandatory abortions, taking away our guns, and activist judges.

Nobody, has mentioned the facts here:

Nissan did not export Skylines to the US when they were in production. If Nissan had not underestimated the US market for turbo cars (why we got the KA instead of the SR) we would not be having this discussion.

Motorex, a private small business company AKA the almighty GOD of laissez faire economics, DID NOT complete the crash testing as required by the NHTSA. They tried to pull a fast one. If they had done the right thing and complied with the rules instead of cheating, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Their business practices are why we have regulations in the first place.

I build commercial airplanes for a living. If Motorex, made jumbo jets, wouldn't you be glad the FAA is all over their a** for violations, keeping your family members from dropping out of the sky. BTW, you don't even want to know what fines are like in the aerospace industry...

VandrelSOUSA was accused of operating a illegal importing ring, unfortunately. A sad result of which his car (which had been imported illegally by another person years ago) got caught up in it. He thought he had a legal car and didn't.

Now, I personally don't care if they are safe or not. If you want to drive one, go for it. Modify it however you like, in my opinion. The only person you are affecting is yourself.

Just like I personally don't care if you smoke pot or not. I'd rather you smoke legal and taxed pot that you bought at the gas station because it would cut off the cartels knees, fix some of the immigration problem, and fix a large portion of our budget problems as well.

I don't agree with these seizures, but I can't fault the govt either. The part that is worst is that it is the owner of the vehicle left holding the bag at the end. This is just an unfortunate situation all around.

The only real people who are 100% at fault are these shady import companies who sell you a Skyline knowing full well that they are sticking it to you. Even more than them, blame Motorex.

I think this post largely hit the nail on the head.

That said, the reason they're doing this to skyline owners is because they said so, and you didn't listen. So they're going to beat you until you do listen. It doesn't matter that they didn't have a good reason for saying so, all that matters is they felt like saying so and are butthurt that you don't take their worthless words more seriously.

It's obviously beyond silly that they even have the right to seize a private piece of property, they should have no jurisdiction over your car, simply because it's a car, unless you drive it on their roads. It should only be a registration debate, not a crushing peoples cars debate.

But it's still all motorex's fault, and nissan's for not really caring enough anyway. You don't have the skyline because of nissan, too.

Post by **kylefeuuu** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:32 pm

i just joined nicoclub.com im sry for your loss vandrel i would love to help in any way possible. I also have some questions for you as i am military and stationed in germany and am gonna be the proud owner of a 97 series 3 R33 GTR. Please email me at [email protected]

Post by **kylefeuuu** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:29 pm

anything new vanbdrel

Post by **nitrous36** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:01 pm

mechanicalmoron wrote:I think this post largely hit the nail on the head.

That said, the reason they're doing this to skyline owners is because they said so, and you didn't listen. So they're going to beat you until you do listen. It doesn't matter that they didn't have a good reason for saying so, all that matters is they felt like saying so and are butthurt that you don't take their worthless words more seriously.

It's obviously beyond silly that they even have the right to seize a private piece of property, they should have no jurisdiction over your car, simply because it's a car, unless you drive it on their roads. It should only be a registration debate, not a crushing peoples cars debate.

But it's still all motorex's fault, and nissan's for not really caring enough anyway. You don't have the skyline because of nissan, too.

What you have to consider is though. That for Nissan it was a liability issue. If they supported it, stood behind it writing letters etc, Nissan NA would be making themselves responsible and part of the liability. If they helped and approved, then people got killed in skylines or if accidents involving skylines killed others, they'd have a lawsuit on their hand. From individuals and the gov't. They'd be stuck losing money defending a car that wasnt intended for the American market anyway(if s*** hit the fan). Nissans thinking about money and lawsuits. They were covering their own asses.

So its really not nissans fault either, its our laws and gov't. If our import laws were more lax like in other countries then we wouldnt have to go knocking at the manufacturer's(this case nissan) doors. Either way it comes back to the gov't as the problem for this all. Nissan NA knows theses laws and are just acting accordingly. They know its a bunch of red tape with our system and they dont want to touch it. And its not just nissan, try getting any manufacturer to write a letter. More so, there is no money in this for them if they do/did. The cars are second hand not new, so they could get nothing from it anyway.

Post by **nitrous36** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:26 pm

kylefeuuu wrote:anything new vanbdrel

Probably not. Things come long and slow(or not at all) with the gov't. It could be a year before anything becomes of this. They made him lose his car, they won. They got his car already, they did their job. So technically its over for them as far as theyre concerned. They may ignore this case and do nothing. See for them, they made him get rid of his car, and they got another "contraband" vehicle off the road. Case closed. If he had kept his car, they'd still be agitated and have a reason to comeback, give him attention and fight him. He'd have more grounds to fight them on. But he gave the car up and exported it, so theyre pleased. Theyre probably not going to pay him any attention now.

The more I look at this. The more I think he should of hung on to the car to keep their attention and entertain things. Then something may of happened sooner. Its like going back to fight a bully that took your lunch money. Well hes already got your luch money and its gone. If I was vandrel, Id be more interested in finding the idiots responsible for this. Because its not the car that got him caught, its the rumors that were spread about him that got him in trouble. If I were him I would try to find out who they were. But not to fight them, there are so many laws you could throw at them to f*** them over.

Post by **mechanicalmoron** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:28 am

nitrous36 wrote:
kylefeuuu wrote:anything new vanbdrel
Probably not. Things come long and slow(or not at all) with the gov't. It could be a year before anything becomes of this. They made him lose his car, they won. They got his car already, they did their job. So technically its over for them as far as theyre concerned. They may ignore this case and do nothing. See for them, they made him get rid of his car, and they got another "contraband" vehicle off the road. Case closed. If he had kept his car, they'd still be agitated and have a reason to comeback, give him attention and fight him. He'd have more grounds to fight them on. But he gave the car up and exported it, so theyre pleased. Theyre probably not going to pay him any attention now.

The more I look at this. The more I think he should of hung on to the car to keep their attention and entertain things. Then something may of happened sooner. Its like going back to fight a bully that took your lunch money. Well hes already got your luch money and its gone. If I was vandrel, Id be more interested in finding the idiots responsible for this. Because its not the car that got him caught, its the rumors that were spread about him that got him in trouble. If I were him I would try to find out who they were. But not to fight them, there are so many laws you could throw at them to f*** them over.

Maybe I read it wrong, I thought they DIDN'T get his car.

I thought he moved it out of the country?

They didn't expect him to do that, so they obviously knew he wasen't any sort of illegal importer. They made him sound like the bag guy from a hardy boys story, but it was just for show, they saw him as a rallying point for skyline owners, and he was an easy target. But they thought he would be even easier and more cowed than he was, and he fought back.

Maybe there's MORE than one part of this I missed, but I thought he also had a 25 year old, totally legal by ANY accouts, vehicle. They said they'd seize it, so to me it sounds like if they wanted they could say my 240's unsafe, despite the fact that it's legally in the US, and seize it..... hell, why couldn't they say my family's dealership corolla is unsafe, and seize that? This was not based on the law, but on them feeling like taking his car. At least, that's how I read it, maybe I'm wrong.

Also, that's exactly what I meant-nissan could have crash tested the skyline, and put emissions gear on it, and sold it in the US-they just didn't care, and don't care. The skyline would be no more inherently legally dangerous to market than any other car, just for starters, it won't do the jeep roll on the freeway....

It's a combination of nissan not caring, and the us government seizing on the chance to show people that they don't really have any rights, and will not be secure in their possessions, the constitution be damned.

Post by **nitrous36** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:40 pm

I didnt say they took is car. I said they made him get rid of his car. He himself didnt import the car illegally, but the car was technically still here illegally. So he was going to have to get rid of it anyway. He did nothing wrong. But the car was illegal, so whether he exported it or not, the gov't would of eventually took it. As far as they were concerned, he was coming off that car one way or another. Yes he willfully got rid of the car, whether he wanted to or not he was going to have to. Thats why I said he basically gave them what they wanted. They have no reason to fight with him or pay him any mind now. He has nothing they would want or care about now.

As for your 240. What you said is a good point and its not suprising. It sucks but thats the way it is right now. Theyre obviously putting a lot of attention and effort into taking illegal japanese cars. So all it would take is someone saying your 240 is illegal(we know its not, but play along). Suggesting that your 240 was originally a JDM car with a U.S. VIN swap and a LHD conversion to make it appear U.S. "legal". And the gov't would probably be at your door knocking to investigate a car. If that happened I wouldnt be suprised. And you'd be stuck proving and showing to them like hell, showing paper work, documentations, and proof of origin that the 240 was made/sold here by nissan, the VIN is correct, matches and is not from another 240, and that the car was not tampered with or altered otherwise(converted to LHD) to appear U.S. spec. lol With the way our gov't is that really wouldnt suprise me now if that happened and they reacted that way to a legit U.S. vehicle with legit documention thats all rumored to be illegal.

Post by **audtatious** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:41 am

mechanicalmoron wrote:It's a combination of nissan not caring

Sorry, but you really can't blame Nissan on this other than making a decision not to sell the Skyline in the US those years. Just because some enthusiasts wanted Skylines in the US does not mean it would have been a financial success for Nissan.

Post by **Ghoztt** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:06 pm

kylefeuuu wrote:anything new vanbdrel

2nd. Keep us updated!
Also, did you change your VIN? Or did you keep it JDM?

Post by **Oatmealman** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:49 pm

Gotta say I agree with encrypthuns first post in this thread,I feel bad that your baby got taken away but you skyline owners knew the s*** storm you where stepping into and didn't expect to get hit by s***.trust me my jeep was just towed a couple weeks ago because it was too wide(military two and a half ton axles with flipped hubs),and yes I knew it was but I still did it anyways and it cost me but you know what I knew the risks and accept the consequences for doing something illegal.while yours was legal you should have expected the worse when it comes to things like this.good luck but this is the exact reason why I will never own and overseas only car,they take it and you get left with jack s*** to show for the 20grand spent

Post by **VandrelSOUSA** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:46 pm

Just to clear up some of the responses here,

The car is NOT "gone". It's still here in the great state of North Carolina. The government still has yet to respond to my lawyer, as they are obligated by law, within a 90 day window. Their time is coming to a end. Legally they cannot do anything with my car until they respond and the pending litigation against them is solved.

Jumping over to the bigger picture, we (the community) are working a angle to attack this problem. It will jump into the 6 figure range but will be for the greater good of all and benifit all current owners. Within the upcoming months be sure to watch for news releases detailing our project and how you can help.

Post by **chozobody** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:16 pm

VandrelSOUSA, I know i'm new here, but know that I have been following your journey since the first post. Owning a skyline has been my dream since before I even got my drivers license. Your story is the one that prompted me to register as a member. Just wanted to let you know that unlike a lot of the other fanboys out there, I would be more than willing to donate both my time and money to help with this fight. Not just for you, but so people like me also have the chance to own a skyline without having to jump through these nearly impossible hoops. Let me know of anything that I can do to help....

Post by **nitrous36** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:14 am

VandrelSOUSA wrote:Just to clear up some of the responses here,

The car is NOT "gone". It's still here in the great state of North Carolina. The government still has yet to respond to my lawyer, as they are obligated by law, within a 90 day window. Their time is coming to a end. Legally they cannot do anything with my car until they respond and the pending litigation against them is solved.

Jumping over to the bigger picture, we (the community) are working a angle to attack this problem. It will jump into the 6 figure range but will be for the greater good of all and benifit all current owners. Within the upcoming months be sure to watch for news releases detailing our project and how you can help.

What happens if they don't respond within 90 days??? Also didnt know you were in NC. Based on what happened(them coming to take your car) I immediately assumed you lived in Cali or some place like that where imports are high profile. I live near by in wilmington in the southeastern part of the state.

Good luck and more power to you and those fighting.

Post by **VandrelSOUSA** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:39 pm

chozobody wrote: I would be more than willing to donate both my time and money to help with this fight.

Thanks for the kind words and support. We're always looking for support in this case as it progresses on all fronts. Our community is very engaged in the current legal cases involving Skylines in this country. As you can imagine, legal fees don't come cheap. In our case we're up against a $495/hr rate. We don't ask for much but anyone that's willing to "give" is welcome to forward contributions VIA PayPal to [email protected]

While news is not very frequent at the moment, rest assure that things are happening and we're looking forward to settlement talks that are developing.

nitrous36 wrote:What happens if they dont respond within 90 days???

Then they are going to be sued. They have a obligation as per the law to respond and settle the matter. If they fail to do so while wrongfully holding my property then they will be liable to face serious litigation in a court of law as well as pay all my legal fees and possibly additional fees.

In short, if wouldn't be wise for them to do so. Their warrant and other related documents were found to be filled with errors and lack of evidence. They have a burden of proof and have failed to do so. Their facts are false. The property seizure as a whole is stated to be illegal in nature as per legal council's findings.

Post by **240SXREX** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:32 pm

I have done endless amount of research and the only thing that I can think of other than all the other modifications you have to do is lower the factory govern and have a disclaimer along with all the other little warning signs that you have to add.Foreign cars are brought into America everyday. There has been rumors of these cars being used for drug trafficking and what not but the people that legitimately own their Skylines shouldn't be robbed of the freedom. If it got here and customs approved it and it passed EPA plus registered importer released bond then why are they taking a car that they approved worthy of driving on US soil. I love this Country but don't take away my pursuit of happiness when your a law abiding citizen. Heck I'm scared of driving my 240sx wondering if I will lose that freedom. I wish we could govern the government and make a JDM V.I.P. Car the official presidential car. I bet they would see the passion and drive that we have for Japans awesome engineering. Heck the skyline is way ahead of it's time. What's next it is too much of an electric sports car when they go green. They ought to us some of the bond money that you pay at the port to get all t crash testing
done to be certified and if there is money left then put it towards registered importers inforcement agents.

Post by **VandrelSOUSA** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:03 am

240SXREX wrote:I have done endless amount of research

Your PM's are disabled. I tried to respond to your question

Post by **240SXREX** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:43 pm

Ok,thanks. Will try to enable.

Post by **mechanicalmoron** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:58 am

240SXREX wrote:I have done endless amount of research and the only thing that I can think of other than all the other modifications you have to do is lower the factory govern and have a disclaimer along with all the other little warning signs that you have to add.Foreign cars are brought into America everyday. There has been rumors of these cars being used for drug trafficking and what not but the people that legitimately own their Skylines shouldn't be robbed of the freedom. If it got here and customs approved it and it passed EPA plus registered importer released bond then why are they taking a car that they approved worthy of driving on US soil. I love this Country but don't take away my pursuit of happiness when your a law abiding citizen. Heck I'm scared of driving my 240sx wondering if I will lose that freedom. I wish we could govern the government and make a JDM V.I.P. Car the official presidential car. I bet they would see the passion and drive that we have for Japans awesome engineering. Heck the skyline is way ahead of it's time. What's next it is too much of an electric sports car when they go green. They ought to us some of the bond money that you pay at the port to get all t crash testing
done to be certified and if there is money left then put it towards registered importers inforcement agents.

Drug trafficking? WHAT kind of drug runner would use such an obvious, targeted car, that's sure to get law enforcement attention? AND that costs 20x as much as the chevy down the block?

Law enforcement try to use drugs to tie everything together. OMGZ the taliban are selling your kids weed and using nissan skylines to do it! No.... that's just not how it works.

None of this is because the skyline is unsafe, or because you couldn't stick a fine emissions system on it. It's because they said you can't have it, and now if you DO have it, you're not respecting their "authority"

Post by **kirozz** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:17 am

Read through the whole thread, joined SAN. I, always having been a huge fan of Skylines, was really pissed at some of the things I read today while doing research on importing skylines. The whole Motorex clusterf*ck and EPA and DOT regulations and what not. I really hope we got something going here, because I'd kill to own a RB26 skyline. Donating as soon as I get back to the states.

PS: I get so jealous seeing youtube vids of Skylines in the U.S. and also feel really terrible for the owner if they don't know what could happen.

Post by **Ghoztt** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:26 pm

Any news Van?

Post by **skylnemax82** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:03 am

i am outraged at the us interest in seizing and banning nissan skylines, what is soo signafigant to them about these cars? did they ban the 90-96 nissan 300zx twin turbo which has more hp and tourqe then the r33 or r34 skylines, no they didnt. did they ban the toyota supera twin turbo, no they didnt, both cars and imports and have twin turbo charged v6 engines and yet they are aloud in the us. i just dont get it, poeple can drive around all day in a dodge viper, but we cant drive skylines, this country is soo assbackwards its not even funny, our government spends soo much of our own tax money on things that are redickulous that our country is broke our currency transfer is horrible. it takes $71.25 of our american dollars just to make up £50 EUR and thats bc of stupid s*** like this, spending tax paying money seizing cars that arent even the fastes on the road, i seen a lamborgini ride down the road the other day and it pissed me off because my skyline is in jepordy of one day being deported but he could drive his v12 lambogini the will blow the dooors of my car, and he can drive it all day everyday without a worry in the world. its sickning, somebody need to attact these people with the facts and a list of cars that are aloud in the us and are compareble in features and in engines and hp and touqe and let them see how redickulous they are being.

Post by **snwbrdr435** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:12 am

Dumbass they are Illegal in the US because they don't conform do DOT and EPA regulations.

BREAKING NEWS: Nissan Skyline Seized

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