Friend, thats a silly statement. Even during the crappy years of the 'Vette, Americans wanted a 'Vette. Icons are icons, and the GTR will have to earn that status by being excellent on all marks:--Being butt-ugly is not a good start.--Being a product of modern-day Nissan is not a good start.AZhitman wrote:All of a sudden, the styling and "cachet" of the 'vette will look dated and tired. Just watch....
The GT-R is an automotive icon.Jesda wrote:
Friend, thats a silly statement. Even during the crappy years of the 'Vette, Americans wanted a 'Vette. Icons are icons, and the GTR will have to earn that status by being excellent on all marks:--Being butt-ugly is not a good start.--Being a product of modern-day Nissan is not a good start.
It's refreshingly ambitious, but I suspect dealer idiocy, initial quality problems, manufacturing inconsistency, and design defects will keep it from succeeding during its first couple years of production.
I hope I'm wrong. Usually I'm not.
True... every where else in the world. It's image, compared to the Vette, is still relatively young in America. The real question is how well it will do here in comparison to the rest of the world. If you asked the average American if they would recognize a Corvette they probably could. Comparatively, very few would know what a Skyline or GTR is.S14SRPilot wrote:
The GT-R is an automotive icon.
Nah, the car just has to be "good enough" to succeed. It doesn't seem like any of those would be a deal-breaker.Jesda wrote:It's refreshingly ambitious, but I suspect dealer idiocy, initial quality problems, manufacturing inconsistency, and design defects will keep it from succeeding during its first couple years of production.
I hope I'm wrong. Usually I'm not.
redtop91 wrote:Nissan is not fledgling in America, neither is the Corvette a worldwide icon. People need to examine their comparisons in both directions.
Sorry, "its" in that last sentence is still referring to the GTR like it is in every other part of my post that addresses your point.Veriest1 wrote:
True... every where else in the world. It's image, compared to the Vette, is still relatively young in America. The real question is how well it will do here in comparison to the rest of the world. If you asked the average American if they would recognize a Corvette they probably could. Comparatively, very few would know what a Skyline or GTR is.
Hopefully Nissan doesn't ruin its fledgling image in America before they can get a foot hold.
Yes, it is.S14SRPilot wrote:
The GT-R is an automotive icon.
No, especially outside of JDM enthusiast circles. It has a solid reputation, but it isn't an icon in the world's largest auto market. It can certainly become one, but it takes a lot of success and time to catch up with a half-century legacy.S14SRPilot wrote:The GT-R is an automotive icon.
Thats an amusingly ambitious statement.AZhitman wrote:And yes, very soon, the styling and "cachet" of the 'vette will look dated and tired, just as it did in the 80's. Especially given the influx of new, radically-designed supercars from Nissan, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai.
Sorry but it IS in fact an icon. Take a look at automotive video games. The Skyline GT-R is on all the popular games. At the LEAST, Americans in general will recognize the letters GT-RJesda wrote:
No, especially outside of JDM enthusiast circles. It has a solid reputation, but it isn't an icon in the world's largest auto market. It can certainly become one, but it takes a lot of success and time to catch up with a half-century legacy.
They'll recognize the letters, but they probably won't associate them with "Nissan" outside of people who play video games and Japanese car enthusiats. The Skyline/GT-R simply does not have much name recognition in this country. The Corvette and 911 are legends to the average American. The GT-R will be an unknown. While it can certainly build up the image, I think it would greatly benefit it to wear an Infiniti badge. Like it or not many people buy these kind of cars based on image as much as performance. People don't see a Corvette and think "Chevy", but they will see the GT-R and think "Nissan", and from a brand image standpoint that's not a good thing. Most people just don't associate Nissan with cars in the Corvette/911 class.S14SRPilot wrote:
Sorry but it IS in fact an icon. Take a look at automotive video games. The Skyline GT-R is on all the popular games. At the LEAST, Americans in general will recognize the letters GT-R
wow. Infiniti does not make sports cars. I've said it before and will say it again. If anything it'd be a mistake to brand it as an Infiniti because Nissan has more of a sports car image than Infiniti. The number one owner of the GTR will be the guy who looks for outright performance in a car rather than Ipod connectivity and heated leather seats. Ok maybe that was an extreme but the crowd Infiniti appeals to has anything but performance as a first priority. I also find it equally amusing when you say that Nissan doesn't make cars that compete in the Corvette/911 class when every Nissan outperforms its Infiniti counterpart.MattB wrote:
For another reason the GT-R should be an Infiniti, consider this: the average Infiniti owner bringing their car in for dealer service is more likely to be able to afford a GT-R than the average Nissan owner bringing their car in. Someone who owns an M45 probably has more money than someone driving an Altima, and thus is more likely to be able to afford a fun car like a Corvette. If the M45 owner sees the GT-R when he brings his car in for an oil change, he will check it out and maye consider it when he goes to buy a "weekend car". The Altima owner is less likely to have the disposable income to afford a GT-R, so its presence at the Nissan dealership is not as likely to induce an existing owner to purchase it.
Nonsense!!!! Would you say the same of the 911? The Corvette has found a look thats both futuristic and current, while retaining its recognizability. Porsche has done the same.AZhitman wrote:The styling is already looking "dated", and there's already an undercurrent of distaste for the 'vette
Wow, Civics are in video games too. Excellent criteria! I'll buy myself a Civic Hybrid and take it to Woodward.S14SRPilot wrote:Sorry but it IS in fact an icon. Take a look at automotive video games. The Skyline GT-R is on all the popular games. At the LEAST, Americans in general will recognize the letters GT-R
Hell yes. Everytime I see a Z06 or a non-boxter Porsche I damn near cream my pants. Same thing happens with 1st Gen Camaros.Absolushun wrote:i would say the same for porsche. honeslty both cars are things of beauties, but can you go down a road spot a vette or a porsche and honestly still go "ooOooOOOOoO"?
Those are some sound arguments, but like Redtop said, the Nissan brand and its racing history are more oriented toward sports cars. I think Nissan will do what GM (Vette) and Ford (GT) did and train certain people at certain dealers to sell and service the GTR.MattB wrote:For another reason the GT-R should be an Infiniti, consider this:
You own a Mazda 3. I own a bland Lexus. You're lying if you think either of us are that jaded or elevated.Absolushun wrote:i would say the same for porsche. honeslty both cars are things of beauties, but can you go down a road spot a vette or a porsche and honestly still go "ooOooOOOOoO"?
i dont think we're jaded, but in my area i spot vettes on almost every corner. i will spot a 911, but to me the look is played out, the old school ones and the new school ones are pretty much the look, granted they've gotten prettier, but the new ones just looks like they are modded old ones. i like my cars to have make overs if they are going to bring in new generations.Jesda wrote:
You own a Mazda 3. I own a bland Lexus. You're lying if you think either of us are that jaded or elevated.
I sure do too. I don't think they'll be able to recover the brand from a screw up once it is formally introduced here. Although even is PR isn't great, but it performs and it fails that will mean a cheaper resale value for me to pick one upJesda wrote:
I just hope Nissan can pull it off.