Bee R Misfire System

ONLY for ADVANCED technical discussion about the 240sx!
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Team503
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My tips stayed shiny on every car but the FD. And man, you didn't wanna be behind me in traffic and tailgate - ultimate anti-tailgater weapon! :D

I admit, it's fun. :ylsuper


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SWIFT_DRIFT
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boMex wrote:Maine....the "other" double clutching is just dumb as sht ricer bs. I'm glad that you and a few other seem to know what double clutching is. Most newbs think it's power shifting (which doesn't really help you) or Heel&Toe (which doesn't actually use your heel or your toe)...damn...so many dumb asses.... Swift Drift I"m looking at you (maybe if your posts were a little bit more readable you wouldn't come off as such a meathead...no 'fence)


okay bomex...im gonna post a vid for you, since you are too stupid to understand english, it will explain everything, about double clutching and heel toe :) im gonna film it in my car right now, and put up a link, so chill in your shorts for a little bit.

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boMex
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It's been way too long since I've pissed someone off. :D I think I'm over due for a flame war. Hey, Swift I understand english (and french) just fine. However the drivel that you apparently pass off as english looks like it was typed by a 3 year old. If you are going to bother to post on a technical subject it really helps if you put a little effort into it. :sleep

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boMex
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Swift, to give you some credit your last post was of a much higher quality than some of your previous work.

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boMex
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P.S. Waiting for that vid :sleep It had better be good

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SWIFT_DRIFT
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well unless you wanna download a 20mb vid....i need a good editor program to cut out some worthless frames...as i dont make vids every second of my life. also as far as my english goes, being as this is a forum, not a college english class....who the hell cares? lol :P

personally I think me and you are talking about the same idea of double clutching...but we are not expressing it in words we both understand and agree on :-\ so i just made a quick vid to prove a point of double clutching and how its useful to everyone all the time.

Heel-toe shifting on the other hand is a very advanced technique and also trivial to discuss. everyone in this world is unique in their feet size, hiegth, etc. there are so many forms of heel-toe that everyone does it slightly differently to make it work for them. in a race situation is doesn't really matter how you shift as long as it's a smooth gear transition and is fast :)

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SWIFT_DRIFT
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hey, my free little web page wont let me host the vid :-\ connection speed is not an issue, just free pages usually suck. so, bomex you should still see this, so just hit me up on aim (i added you to my list already but your not online) and i can send you my little home made vid. thanks.

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boMex
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I don't have AIM on this Com...I"m at my gf's....You can find me on ICQ though.....I'm somewhat disapointed that we agree. I was hoping for a big flame fest ...blah whatev :sleep

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SWIFT_DRIFT
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lol i dont have icq (used it for 2 years, got sick of it). tell me when ur on aim, get my screen name from my profile. lates.

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Two-Forty
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heel and toe means heel and toe, you can learn it at http://www.turnfast.com

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C-Kwik
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SWIFT_DRIFT wrote:you have no clue what double clutching is then. double clutching is the first step to learning proper heel-toe technique. double clutching is about matching engine speed/revs for smoother downshifts. Heel-toe is only used when you are braking, toe on the brake, heel to double clutch and match revs while you are braking. Anytime you just wanna downshift and dont need to brake all ur doing then is double clutching, there is no heel-toe involved because you are just letting the engine naturally slow down till you match revs in a lower gear.


Sorry, but this is wrong. Double clutching has nothing do do with Heel-Toe Braking. You do not need to double-clutch when you heel-toe brake, unless your syncros are worn or the car does not come equipped with them. Some swear on double clutching anyways to reduce wear on the syncros. Some cars will require a double clutch on an upshift. But as long as you have good working syncros, you have absolutely no need for a double clutch. The first step to learning heel-toe is not double clutching.

And no, your heel is not used to double clutch. Your left foot works the clutch. Your right foot works the gas and brake to match revs. But again, no need to double clutch.

Double clutch is the process to get your gear speeds matched during a shift by depressing the clutch, shifting to neutral, letting the clutch go and depressing it again quickly, shifting to the next gear and then releasing the clutch again. Again this only needs to be used on a car with bad or no syncros. It's a pain in the *** to do and if your syncros are fine, you'ld be better off not even hearing of it. It takes longer to complete the shift using this method.

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Team503
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C-Kwik has it right on double clutching.

And to explain heel and toe better, the idea behind it is rather simple. When on a racetrack, you need to brake and use the accelerator at the same time (that's a gas pedal for those of you who don't know) for various reasons - trailbraking, keeping revs up, etc.

Since it's assumed that you'll need your left foot to operate the clutch pedal, there needs to be a way to brake and rev at the same time - say, coming into a late apex turn and rev-matching to the gear your shifting into, but trail-braking on your way into the apex.

So the simple solution is to use yiour left foot for the clutch, your right heel for the brake, and your right toes for the gas. Some people switch the heel and toes around, which is fine, it's whatever works for you.

Why do you think the gas pedal and brake pedal are placed close to each other, roughly even, and roughly with the same amount of travel, while the clutch is WAY off to the left, and has twice the travel the other two do?

Cars are DESIGNED to be heel and toed. For those people out there who didn't know this, now you do. If you're talking smack, and you were wrong, I would highly advise learning what the hell you're talking about. Read some books, go to a driver's school. Hell, go autocross (http://www.scca.org). But learn what the hell you're talking about, ok?

Mike09
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That bee*r system looks so awesome but is it worth the damage to your turbos. I don't think so.

skatanic28
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Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:35 am
Car: 96 240sx

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Team503 wrote:C-Kwik has it right on double clutching.

And to explain heel and toe better, the idea behind it is rather simple. When on a racetrack, you need to brake and use the accelerator at the same time (that's a gas pedal for those of you who don't know) for various reasons - trailbraking, keeping revs up, etc.

Since it's assumed that you'll need your left foot to operate the clutch pedal, there needs to be a way to brake and rev at the same time - say, coming into a late apex turn and rev-matching to the gear your shifting into, but trail-braking on your way into the apex.

So the simple solution is to use yiour left foot for the clutch, your right heel for the brake, and your right toes for the gas. Some people switch the heel and toes around, which is fine, it's whatever works for you.

Why do you think the gas pedal and brake pedal are placed close to each other, roughly even, and roughly with the same amount of travel, while the clutch is WAY off to the left, and has twice the travel the other two do?

Cars are DESIGNED to be heel and toed. For those people out there who didn't know this, now you do. If you're talking smack, and you were wrong, I would highly advise learning what the hell you're talking about. Read some books, go to a driver's school. Hell, go autocross (http://www.scca.org). But learn what the hell you're talking about, ok?


completely agreei dont know what some of you guys think double clutching is, big difference betweeen that and rev matching....

Tai Mai Shu
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I tell you I think the F&F has gotten some of these guys thinking aobut stuff that isnt true. Kind of sad. Most people (including myself) use it to stop the weight from sifting forward when I downshift so that my tail end doesnt become loose and I go into a spin....

PS Double Clutching and Heel toe (which some people do use, the twist there ankle to the side so the top of there foot is on the brake and the (heel) is on the gas...they have nothign to do incommon. the only thing in common they have is they use the gas and the brake. Double Clutching is when you are lets say in 1st, then press the clutch into Netrual tap the gas and then put into 2nd, its raither easy. my friend uses it on his talon AWD, his 2nd gear sycro is messed up.:rolleyes

skatanic28
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Car: 96 240sx

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Tai Mai Shu wrote:I tell you I think the F&F has gotten some of these guys thinking aobut stuff that isnt true. Kind of sad. Most people (including myself) use it to stop the weight from sifting forward when I downshift so that my tail end doesnt become loose and I go into a spin....

PS Double Clutching and Heel toe (which some people do use, the twist there ankle to the side so the top of there foot is on the brake and the (heel) is on the gas...they have nothign to do incommon. the only thing in common they have is they use the gas and the brake. Double Clutching is when you are lets say in 1st, then press the clutch into Netrual tap the gas and then put into 2nd, its raither easy. my friend uses it on his talon AWD, his 2nd gear sycro is messed up.:rolleyes


not too sure about your definition of double clutching..the way you decribe it simply sounds like rev matchingtrue double clutching would be to be in first, clutch, put it in neutral, declutch, clutch, shift to 2nd, then declutch and continue..

vividance
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skatanic28 wrote:not too sure about your definition of double clutching..the way you decribe it simply sounds like rev matchingtrue double clutching would be to be in first, clutch, put it in neutral, declutch, clutch, shift to 2nd, then declutch and continue..


errrmmm.... y would anyone wants to be in first, clutch, put it in neutral, declutch, clutch, shift to 2nd, then declutch and continue to the 3rd.. ?? :(sounds like it will take a long time to reach desired cruising speed.

i though double clutching is use moe often when DOWN SHIFT and NOT upshift.

I thought the neutral part is for drifter to induce a traction loss before popping in a low gear to capture power to pull out of a drift.

I maybe wrong :icesangel


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