AWD System Question (and other questions for potential buyer)

[BrianV]

I'm considering the Rogue as we're looking for a smaller, sportier, and more frugal SUV to replace our MDX.

We're in Austin, TX now but may move to Colorado in the coming years. Regardless, we want AWD.

One of my MDX's complaints is that the AWD system is VERY FWD biased. I don't mind FWD, but if it's wet and I give it a bit too much gas around a corner, the front slips and torque steers intensely. Power does go to the rear which helps to track the car but it's nowhere near as good as my mom's RX330 AWD or the 06 RAV4 we rented in Tahoe earlier this year.

How is the Rogue? The MDX has all of this marketing around how it detects slip before it happens and sends power back before the front wheels start slipping, but in reality I don't experience that. This is one of their big selling points of the MDX's system over that over the CRV which in their words, "Adjusts after slip is detected."

Other cars we're considering:- Rav4- Santa Fe- Vue (maybe?)- Tiguan (I'm really excited about this one, especially if they release a TDI version).

I'd appreciate any feedback from those who cross-shopped the Rogue.

[exeunt]

I've never driven another AWD car before, but one of the things I love about the Rogue is that it doesn't wait for a slip to occur. It uses all wheels when starting from a stop, and it uses 70% FWD and 30% RWD while making turns, as advertised by the brochure. Technically this probably means a little less gas mileage, but the response in going around corners and pulling into traffic on an icy or slushy day has been great in my opinion. It may have given me a little too much confidence

[worldbikr]

there is a whole 'snow performance' thread if you'll check down the page. last post 12/21.

[Eikon]

Brian, I would say that the Rogue is for you!

The Rogue's new intelligent all wheel drive system is really cool. I'm not aware of any other vehicle on the market that has the same technology.

Many of these car-based SUV's have very similar tech. They are FWD biased with multiple differentials that transfer power if any slippage occurs to other wheels. This was of course a great improvement in technology over the old all or nothing 4wd systems. The Rogue has exactly the same FWD biased system with Torson center and VLSD front and rear diffs that all the other competitors have. The Rogue will adapt to loss of traction in exactly the same way as the others. But, the Rogue has the scoop on the others by having a little extra technology...

The improvement in tech. that the Rogue has made is by implementing intelligence into the system. The Rogue is set up to predict loss of traction based on driver inputs and adjust traction ahead of time, based on the potential for slippage.

When are you most likely to lose traction?1.) Accelerating from a stop. If accelerating from a stop the system will automatically go to a 50-50 bias until cruising speed is attained. 2.) Cornering. Based on speed and angle of cornering, the system will transfer power to as much as a 70-30 split as you enter a corner.

In either situation, the system is designed to "be ready" before you actually lose traction. By implementing some intelligence into the system they hope to save people from accidents by improving a "reactive" AWD system into a "predictive" AWD system.

[BrianV]

Brian, I would say that the Rogue is for you!

The Rogue's new intelligent all wheel drive system is really cool. I'm not aware of any other vehicle on the market that has the same technology.

Many of these car-based SUV's have very similar tech. They are FWD biased with multiple differentials that transfer power if any slippage occurs to other wheels. This was of course a great improvement in technology over the old all or nothing 4wd systems. The Rogue has exactly the same FWD biased system with Torson center and VLSD front and rear diffs that all the other competitors have. The Rogue will adapt to loss of traction in exactly the same way as the others. But, the Rogue has the scoop on the others by having a little extra technology...

The improvement in tech. that the Rogue has made is by implementing intelligence into the system. The Rogue is set up to predict loss of traction based on driver inputs and adjust traction ahead of time, based on the potential for slippage.

When are you most likely to lose traction?1.) Accelerating from a stop. If accelerating from a stop the system will automatically go to a 50-50 bias until cruising speed is attained. 2.) Cornering. Based on speed and angle of cornering, the system will transfer power to as much as a 70-30 split as you enter a corner.

In either situation, the system is designed to "be ready" before you actually lose traction. By implementing some intelligence into the system they hope to save people from accidents by improving a "reactive" AWD system into a "predictive" AWD system.

LOL, everything you said here is nearly verbatim from the Acura's marketing handbook on the Acura's VTM-4 AWD system. Toyota says similar things about there's (based on sensor inputs, etc.). The Toyota system is actually quite nice; I hope the Rogues is as well.

Thanks for the input.

[exeunt]

Actually, instead of "predictive" I would almost say "preventative". Instead on relying on sensors to detect slippage, I'm pretty sure they have the AWD kick in as he mentioned during acceleration from a stop and cornering. In my mind this is less "predictive" and more preventative, because everyone knows that these are the times when your car is most likely to need the traction. In my mind, this might be a little less "intelligent", but that just means that it doesn't rely on magic numbers to try to determine when slippage might occur, but applies AWD when it knows you might need it.

I always get nervous when I hear about "intelligent" systems, and we start throwing around words like "predictive", because these things are very easy to claim and very hard to disprove in the marketing sense.

[Lightforce18]

if u dont want to wait for the AWD to kick in itself. There is a AWD lock button that will keep AWD on always. But wastes more gas im sure.

[Derango]

if u dont want to wait for the AWD to kick in itself. There is a AWD lock button that will keep AWD on always. But wastes more gas im sure.

That only works at low speeds. It turns itself off if you go too fast. It's only intended for situations if you're stuck in snow or mud or something similar.

[BrianV]

Actually, instead of "predictive" I would almost say "preventative". Instead on relying on sensors to detect slippage, I'm pretty sure they have the AWD kick in as he mentioned during acceleration from a stop and cornering. In my mind this is less "predictive" and more preventative, because everyone knows that these are the times when your car is most likely to need the traction. In my mind, this might be a little less "intelligent", but that just means that it doesn't rely on magic numbers to try to determine when slippage might occur, but applies AWD when it knows you might need it.

I always get nervous when I hear about "intelligent" systems, and we start throwing around words like "predictive", because these things are very easy to claim and very hard to disprove in the marketing sense.

I agree 100%. I remember when the first Benz ML320 came out, it had all this fancy 4wd technology and it got absolutely trumped off-road by every other vehicle with "inferior technology". I recall the 4Runner one the off-road part of the review and it employed absolutely 0 special/intelligent technologies. Just a straight 50/50 torque converter down the middle and a locking rear for when you got stuck. I had a 98 4Runner Limited and the thing was an absolute swiss-army knife off-road.

I think your explanation is dead-on, and I'm glad Nissan is enabling AWD before slippage occurs.

So in summary, the car goes 70/30 when it's turning regardless of anything else? It'll send more power back ONCE it detects slippage? How does the formula work for off the line acceleration?

[BrianV]

if u dont want to wait for the AWD to kick in itself. There is a AWD lock button that will keep AWD on always. But wastes more gas im sure.

Yeah our MDX has that but it also locks the rear and front differentials which makes turning REALLY bad for the car. There are warning signs everywhere that says ONLY use the lock when you're stuck and turn it off immediately after you're stuck.

Is the Rogue's AWD lock like that (where it locks differentials) or does it just lock the AWD system into 50/50 front and back without locking actual differentials?

[BrianV]

I just read all that 4/2/4 crap on the website and I like what I see. However, I don't see anywhere that when cornering it'll send back more power, etc. Once it detects slip, other than using VDC, what does it do to mitigate that? Will it send more power back, less power back, etc? Or is it just very simple: when accelerating send 50% back, when cornering send 30% back and forget any adjustments after that?