Automotive Engineering

[Red coupe]

I REALLY REALLY doubt you would make more from UTI...

and Engineering degree would make some good money, and a double major physics and engineering is even better.

A degree from UTI, depending on who you talk to, seems to be worth about as much as a few semesters of JC auto shop...

Most of those schools are designed to be easier then a double major in physics and engineering...and that will be reflected in pay.

[St_NaZryN]

yea i guess im just being lazy and trying to find a shortcut lol thanks

[skylndrftr]

Hmm i forgot about this thread. There really is no such thing as "automotive engineering" as a study. You would go declare yourself as a Mechanical Engineer.

Im telling you that once you get into the field you will realize that cars aren't cool at the OEM level. The car industry IS dead in America. I know it sucks, but it's reality. I don't want to get into a flamewar over this, so if you don't agree, then do some more research.

not wanting to start a debate either, but I just got a damn nice job offer to do chassis design at Honda R&D in OH.

your not gonna find a shortcut especially going to uti. Shortage or not (and I would guess that until they go out of business there will be a shortage), a mechanic (technician) is a dead end field. Like someone mentioned, for the most part automotive degrees are mechanical engineering based with a concentration. That gives you a relevant useful skill set beyond your employment field.

[Red coupe]

not wanting to start a debate either, but I just got a damn nice job offer to do chassis design at Honda R&D in OH.

your not gonna find a shortcut especially going to uti. Shortage or not (and I would guess that until they go out of business there will be a shortage), a mechanic (technician) is a dead end field. Like someone mentioned, for the most part automotive degrees are mechanical engineering based with a concentration. That gives you a relevant useful skill set beyond your employment field.

In his defense he DID say domestic cars....But yeah he left out the whole part about working for non domestic manufacturers in the USA....

Regardless its not like there will be no domestic manufacturers (at least not anytime soon). The best you could claim is that you wouldn't get to work on some domestic super car or working making the kind of car we want to drive.

But honestly if your only getting your ME degree so that you can build race car you need to re-think things anyways. Sure thats a goal..but not everyone is gonna get to work for an F1 team...But even a family car is its own set of challenges.

[skylndrftr]

understood Red coupe but just wanna clarify the reality from my experiences...

I don't think Honda, Nissan, or Toyota (or similar brands) have ever laid off an employee in this country. On the other hand, someone with an engineering degree (or any white collar job) within a US auto manufacturer is at more of a risk of being laid off than factoy employees. the UAW (duck I hear Jesda coming) has made a college degree a liability at the big three.

[311 RB26DETT]

Here we have a program in bemidji minnesota for high performance engine machining and joint program with credit transfer for mechanical engineering just down the road... the programs pretty freaking sweet. if you want more info just pm me. i would love to see some more 240 people in my program!

[BoroBrown]

Didn't know if you had looked into the Program at UNC Charlotte. They have a Motorsports and Automotive Engineering program. I am considering attending in a few years just can't make the move right now. Here is a link.http://www.motorsportsu.com/How you found this helpful.

Chris

[RBbugBITme]

Or go here for grad school.http://www.engr.colostate.edu/....html

[KakkoiiRacing]

[QUOTE=skylndrftr]understood Red coupe but just wanna clarify the reality from my experiences...

I don't think Honda, Nissan, or Toyota (or similar brands) have ever laid off an employee in this country. QUOTE]this isn't true. just take a look at some local economies in the state of indiana. there were communities and full cities that depended on manufacturing plants and when the company (ie. honda, toyota, etc) started doing badly, they shut the plants down and created domestic ghost towns. i'm not saying domestic companies are going to be much, if any, better but i just thought i'd point this out.

[skylndrftr]

Toyota 'laid off' between 200-400 temporary employees. I see mixed figures on that.

Nissan USA has a no layoff policy AFAIK, and I know Honda has never laid anyone off.

Show me somethign different...

That being said, automotive isn't really the way to go right now...get a MatSci degree and go build solar cells

[Spoolin4days]

One more piece of advice... having a 4.0gpa isn't all its cracked up to be so don't waste your college life striving for it. However, life will be sooo much easier if you at least have a 3.0 from a good school. Once you drop below that you really start to close doors.

I'm in my second year of my M.E. degree, but I have an associates in automotive eng. from a few years ago. My grades weren't so great back then, do you think being below a 3.0 will really hurt me in the long run? I'm working on improvement, but it takes awhile. Also, Racecar Engineering is the best reading material I've laid eyes on, period.

[Red coupe]

I'm in my second year of my M.E. degree, but I have an associates in automotive eng. from a few years ago. My grades weren't so great back then, do you think being below a 3.0 will really hurt me in the long run? I'm working on improvement, but it takes awhile. Also, Racecar Engineering is the best reading material I've laid eyes on, period.

Buy book "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" that book is greatness.

How far below a 3.0? I have actually heard 3.0 is a good thing, some of the larger companies (for the aircraft guys, like bowing...) do want 4.0's...

But I have had some teacher who have said companies have come to them for recommendations, and specifically said they DON'T want 4.0s... because anyone getting a 4.0 in engineering hasn't been outside a book ever, and real world experience > all.Try for at least a 3.0, and get in some extra curricular activities... You should be good.

[RBbugBITme]

RCVD is definitely a great book and one of the first on everyones recomendation list within FSAE. I'm working on their new one, Chassis Design from Maurice Olley which is very similar in some respects.

As for all you aspiring F1 engineers I'll give you a little update on my recent research and decisions. My goals are pretty simple, Formula 1 and nothing less. If anyone else shares the same dreams I've spoken with a current engineer at Force India and a few others on FSAE teams that had teammates go the way of F1. Basically you have little to no shot of walking out of a US school with a B.S. in engineering and walking onto a F1 team no matter what school or what grades you have. Its been done but you have better chances of playing in the super bowl. So what I have to do is get a job with a racing team or a supplier over here for 3 or 4 years after I graduate this year and then apply to Euro schools for a masters in Automotive/Racecar Engineering. This is necessary because Euro companies can't hire you unless you have a visa and you usually can't get a visa without a job already lined up, catch 22 stuff... So what a number of people have done is go to a place like Cranfield http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/sas...x.jsp or Oxford etc. and try to get your research work through one of the teams and hope to get picked up when you're done. Once you're living in the country for a while its much easier to get a job offer and a visa.

I think a lot of people dream of working in F1 or the like and don't think about how they are going to start a family or keep in touch with their own. You really have to make a decision and understand you will be living across the pond and out of touch with everyone, possibly for the rest of your life.

That being said, I let my gf know my plans and that she is second to them and now I'm focused and excited to see what job offers I get!

[Red coupe]

TBH anyone who is only doing engineering to be on F1 or nothing should just quit... Thats basicly the top level, and there are only so many possitions. The rockstars of engineers TBH

I have confidence in my self and my ability, but I would say its hard to even guarantee I will be lucky enough to work for any motor sports team, let alone on the level of F1.

I think people should get used to the fact there is a decent change they will end up designing door handles, or tuning the suspension for a ford torus.

[RBbugBITme]

Your opinion is warranted but I hardly believe that shooting for the highest echelon of racing and not making it will relegate me to working for one of the big three or something similar. If anything it will have me prepared for every other form of racing out there. There are suppliers to these teams, Le Mans, WRC, etc.. I don't think I'll be quitting anytime soon!

[underground57]

I've had my eye on Cranfield for the longest time now. Aside from the very limited acceptance, for me, it comes down to having the grades to have someone pay me to go there.

I guess this is a little off topic, but I noticed your sig says that you're captain of your FSAE team. Could you tell me how the team operates (infrastructure, team size, how work gets assigned, shop resources, time dedicated per week, how you obtain funding, other stuff you feel like sharing...)? I'm asking because I was involved with the FSAE team here for a year, and it turned out to be a little bit of a disappointment. I put in a ridiculous amount of time and work with not a whole lot to show for it. It basically came down to poor management, and a few guys with inflated egos not being able to put them aside for the benefit of the team. I'm taking a couple semesters away from the team because of other commitments, but I intend to come back to help build the team towards what I know it can be.

[RBbugBITme]

Yeah Cranfield is tough. I guess this site doesn't have PM's...

I ran it like a corporation with a level of team leaders (engine, composites, suspension, etc.) and some tiers below them for the rest to filter into depending on their interests. My job description for myself was that I was there to help the individual teams form an end goal and then help them in anyway I could to achieving it as opposed to dictating. One of the biggest issues was creating milestones for them along the way so I could track their progress. Unfortunately for my engineering career, because of how I ran the team I had a hand in almost every part of the car but I didn't design a single part myself from start to finish just because I didn't have the time.

Just like most teams around the world, we have 20-30 members around throughout the year but less than 8 or so actually put in more time than they should to actually build the car. For some reason we have a lot of individuals that aren't motivated by driving time which was they only "punishment" I could hold over someones head for dropping to many deadlines so I actually had to remove some teammates for taking on important roles and then completely dropping the ball. It didn't make me to many friends but I certainly earned their respect and I would have been the only 2 term President in our history if I hadn't chosen not to take the job this year. There is an important lesson in there somewhere...

We get a lot of funding from our school, they love us. I am however the Sponsorship Chair this year because we need to raise cash to compete in Italy next year. I've been on the phone with a lot of major corporations, just gotta get someone comfortable with cold calling.

As I said, when it comes to crunch time people have a hard time understanding that many hands make light work so they just don't come down. I've been tracking my hours recently and I had 10hrs during our midterm week and I was back up to 20hrs the week after. During the month before comp I imagine its upwards of 40hrs on top of school. We had a 56 hour stretch once where everyone rotated through a 3 hour nap cycle about half way through. Every team with <10 dedicated people does this.

My suggestion to you is to not quit if you love what FSAE could be for you. I quit twice when I first got to Drexel because of leadership... Engineers suck at leading people and especially newb freshman that don't have a clue what a spherical bearing is. I had a bit of an advantage with an entrepreneurship minor and a small business of my own so when I came back I worked my *** off and did the ***** jobs happily and in less than 9 months after coming back I was the President and I made the team into what I felt it should be. I wish I never left and did this 2 years ago. The team would have been better off and so would my career prospects. Find a difficult long term project you can immerse yourself in, learn a bunch and make a quality end product. You'll earn some respect and you can use it to avoid the ego-heads for a while. You could also practice 3D modeling a whole lot and offer to teach all of the younger team members that haven't had the class yet. I've been doing that for 90min every Saturday for a while and they're hoping to test out of the course and get an easy A but it also makes the team stronger in the long run.

Back on topic.....
Modified by RBbugBITme at 5:57 PM 9/11/2008

[crzycav86]

We had a guy graduate in 06. He went to formula 1 with his only his bachelors and formula sae experience. It can be done.

Anyway, at Texas A&M, our formula sae program was integrated with a senior design class responsible for designing and building the car. That put a lot of pressure on people in the class to get a car done every year. We also received a fair amount of school funding(most money came from sponsorships), and only seniors in the design class get to design the cars. the volunteers in the club get to help build the new car and maintain old ones.

[RBbugBITme]

I hate it when teams are limited to seniors and senior design. Its a recipe for poor performance. Its the reason we stunk before getting the team recognized as a club thats open to everyone which is run by the students and not the engineering dept. and its the reason our hybrid team stinks now.

[crzycav86]

Oh the club is open to everyone, and every mechanical engineer here knows it exists and how to get involved. We just don't let incoming freshmen who think they're hot stuff because they rebuilt a motor with their pop touch design. Instead, we prefer to mentor the younger engineers, giving them more responsibilities as they gain experience and get their head out of the clouds. They will be fully prepared as seniors to make a competitive car.

The organization is still run by students. We have elected officers, dues, etc... just like any other organization. We have one faculty advisor who oversees the design class while team members discuss ideas and problems. The professor has the final say in nothing. He just keeps everyone focused on the "design process", and grades are mainly based on that.

[RBbugBITme]

Gotcha. How much are your dues if you don't mind me asking. We don't have dues and I think we should to get rid of some of the people that take on jobs and don't care enough to get them done when they say they will. Do the dues go to a specific item or does the money just get thrown into the big pot? Personally I thought $50 was reasonable for the year and it would go toward that person's uniform and food at competition.

[zalicar]

Hey, RBbugBITme, are you still involved with fsae, because I saw on the site in your signature that yall were at VIR last year. The reason I'm interested is because I'm an Aerospace Engineering student at Embry-Riddle in Daytona (and on the design team for our car as well as vice chair for our SAE chapter), and for the past two years we have been doing fhsae, but this year we will be attending both that competition in New Hampshire, and also regular fsae at VIR. Anyway, I was just quite surprised when I saw what might be one of my future competitors on nico.

[Red coupe]

that competition in New Hampshire

Formula Hybrid

[zalicar]

whats up with the evil eyes at fh lol is your issue with new hampshire or fh, I'm so confused

[RBbugBITme]

Yeah I'm top dog again this year for Drexel Racing. We'll be going to FSAE West though. Good luck.

[Red coupe]

that competition in New Hampshire

(<---- is Suspension team leader for "that competition")

[zalicar]

lol o okay, what school you from red coupe?

[Red coupe]

lol o okay, what school you from red coupe?

Cal Poly Pomona

[bball212000]

before anybody here decides that they want to be any sort of automotive technician. consider the cost of what it takes. i have been at ford for 2 and a half years, and am a ford specialist technician. i have relatively little experience compared to some but when i finally finished the two year college program ford asset i started making awesome money. this business is all about your motivation and how much you want to work. becuase you will get paid flat rate which is great in most cases. except for times like now where our dealership writes up about 40-50 cars a day now and there is no money to be made. my checks have sharply decreased since this economic crisis. where i was turning 60+ hours or better (depending on how busy) early this summer i am now lucky to turn 20 hours a week. which equates to crap money. also, remember the thousands of dollars you will spend on tools. i dont know how other dealers are but some dont even provide the brands own scan tool and ford's ids cost 2300 dollars. and good luck finding a shop with ac, summer in the south sucks. my roommate went to uti and then started ford asset with me and some others. he hated uti, and to that point i highly recommend a co-op program such as asset. i got an associate's degree out of it too. and two years of school only cost me 10k instead of uti's 25k or so. just some thoughts from someone that has been down the path before.no offense to anyone but i have seen some real idiots come out of uti and a few really sharp ones. maybe some more seasoned technicians will agree with my points. think about this before to decide on working on cars.a

[Nacho_240]

i just read this whole thread and was surprised to see how dedicated some people are to their fsae teams. Although I 'm a chem eng major, I decided to show up to one of my schools SAE meetings just to see what it's like and find out what they really do. I was pretty disappointed in the lack of organization though.

Anyways, I was curious to know how many of you students (Red Coupe, zalicar, RBbugBITme, crzycav86) have jobs. My full-time job is starting to make it really difficult to keep my 3.0 GPA, but I still want to get involved in the SAE program.