Any VQ30DET experts around?

[gregfarz78]

to run the bull crap VQ you must swap keys in order to get threw the NATS system BS

swaping a LS1 is faster and will get you more HP/$$$ and it has one hell of aft. market support,,,

S14 With LS7 Block And L92 heads + intake + cam + Headers + Tune...Made 525 WHP N/A

Get me a crappy Z engine to do that

Lets be honest here both are great engines I wouldn't call the vq a crappy engine. How much did that guy spend to get 525 whp with the lsx?

[DMan II-40]

False. Please take a moment to re-read the OP.

"If you got more info/questions or just wanna poke any holes in this idea, post it up!"

Some folks like to let logic dictate the majority of their decision making. Doing things to "do them" can often lead to regret.

Yes you are right, he said "poke holes" not "dismantle the entire idea." I think OP isn't just doing this because it is cool, he believes it has great potential. Which I do too, seeing the evidence he has provided for us.

[Salem240]

Love this idea + who cares about having over 500hp with an ls when you have weight transfer like that with a VQ. Hell, when you can fit the ic between the motor and rad support, thats what I call balance.

[mattblancarte]

Yes you are right, he said "poke holes" not "dismantle the entire idea." I think OP isn't just doing this because it is cool, he believes it has great potential. Which I do too, seeing the evidence he has provided for us.

I think I deserve a bit more credit than you're giving me.

Not only did I not "dismantle" anything, I didn't even argue with him. If you go back and re-read my post, I even agreed that the weight savings on this motor sound good, and said it was a legit motor.

I was extremely polite, and simply asked a question. He readily responded and made some good points about the VQ. My bad?

[simmode1]

^^^ It's all good guys. It's not like I expected everybody to drop their pants when I mentioned this swap. And I certainly ain't whining if ppl have differences of opinions...

Right now, I searching around to see if the VQ30DET has the same NATS system that the VQ35 does. That'll suck if it does, but it's not a deal breaker.

I'm sure some of the guys more experienced with VQ will probably chime in soon, now that the weekend and holiday or over...

[gregfarz78]

I'm pretty sure you won't have to worry about messing with NATS with the vq30, I think some people are getting around it on the vq35 by using a maxima ecu

[Sil240]

Like 5 years ago I thought about doing the VQ30DET. But at that time there was only like 3 people I could find in the world that have done that swap.

So I hopped on a RB20.Plus I liked the idea of the space on both sides of the motor.

I still like the VQ30det. I'll try to see what info I can dig up.

For the Manifold maybe instead of making a whole new mani, you could make a "extender" for the T3 flange.

Since those Ceramic turbos suck!!I'm sure lots of people would like to swap out that turbo anyway. Look on Egay and you can find a setup to add a external WG to your manifold. Its 2 T3 flanges with a pipe in the middle with a WG flange on the side.

You could easily fab one of those to whatever direction you need. Just make sure to brace the turbo.

As far as parts interchange. Look on Jun, Tomei, HKS etc anyone that makes parts for both and see which part #'s are the same.

Also if anyone has a more updated version of the Nissan FAST system you can look up the parts that way too.

Yeah that NATS shouldn't be to hard to get around. Like he said Maxima ECU or I'm sure you could get a AEM to work on a VQ30Det.

[simmode1]

Love this idea + who cares about having over 500hp with an ls when you have weight transfer like that with a VQ. Hell, when you can fit the ic between the motor and rad support, thats what I call balance.

Yes! I knew someone would understand where I'm coming from!

I'm pretty sure you won't have to worry about messing with NATS with the vq30, I think some people are getting around it on the vq35 by using a maxima ecu

No NATS = Awesome!

As far as parts interchange. Look on Jun, Tomei, HKS etc anyone that makes parts for both and see which part #'s are the same.

Ooooh... you got me dreaming of a swap with Tomei titanium valve springs/retainers, some bigger cams with an HKS GT30 turbo...

[Ali 556]

whatever,

so you will import a non -USDM engine with ZERO aft,market support and swaping it into a S1x,

Zero aft.market support....doesn't tha mean anything to you?

If it's about wight..the LSx > ALL engine wight wise...the trany is the b**** heavy,

if it's 3.0 L you can get :

RB30 (heavy as f***)2JZ-GTE (heavy as f***) too,destroked VQ35 maybe ?VQ30DE from a maxima ?

-----

oh and lag is over rated....i've DD'd a GT4780 (80mm) Supra for 2 weeks and it was ok..granted NO boost until 4900 rpm...but my cutoff was 8900Rpm so i was ok,

bottom line :

Swap a engine that worth it (at least aft.market availability)



EDIT :

usuing maxima ECU on VQ35 that will make you lose VTC...and that = bad down low power....above 3500rpm it's ok...

[simmode1]

^^^You seem incapable of seeing the bigger picture. Once upon a time, there was no support for the SR/RB/CA/1J or whatever motor in the states either. There is an aftermarket for this motor, we simply need to find distrubutors and outlets.

I've already confirmed that there are valvetrain upgrades available, I just haven't found any news on bigger cams yet. In the meantime, bolt on stuff like turbo & injector upgrades are nearly universal and more than enough to tide most of us over.

That's fine if you are pro-LSx, but if everyone just followed your opinion, the world would be boring and sucky. And to pigeonhole this idea as "Things you do just to be different, despite common-sense..." would also be... unfortunate, IMO. I see I alot of potential here, but it's ok if you don't see it too.

EDIT: BTW... LS1 minus heavya$$ tranny ~425 to 450lbs. VQ30DET minus moderately weighted tranny ~350-360lbs.

I'm not going to go back and forth with anybody over this anymore. If you think this is such a terrible idea, then you don't have to contribute to the thread.
Modified by simmode1 at 5:22 PM 5/26/2009

[gregfarz78]

I have to agree with ali on one point the vq30det is a non-usdm engine with little to no support in the states and its only getting older. We need to concentrate on the vq35 swap, getting around the nats, keeping the variable valve timing, getting the wiring down pat, etc. You can pick up a 03-04 Z engine for cheap and there's the most aftermarket support for that motor. Or maybe as you said before a hybrid vq30/35 engine.

[mattblancarte]

The turbo setup is interesting on the vq30det. I wonder if you'd have a wrx type sound to your exhaust because of the different runner lengths.

[simmode1]

Well Greg, maybe you're right. Maybe we're just a little too late catching on to the VQ30DET's awesomeness to make it really worthwhile. It is true that the dropping prices of VQ35's and their widespread availability just might overwhelm all the VQ30's selling points. Kinda like how the KA-T's popularity is now surging over SR swaps... I dunno...

The Hybrid idea isn't a bad one. I hear the heads are interchangeable and that the DET flows better.

Maybe we'll just leave this motor to the Aussie's...

[gregfarz78]

Well its definitely a good option to those that can't afford a RB25/26, but I don't see it becoming a popular swap just b/c of availability in the states or lack thereof. Give the VQ35 some time I bet it will be the next SR swap in a few more years and best part is its completely carb legal. Let us know what you find out about swapping heads though, I would imagine you would need to use a vq30 ecu also.

[simmode1]

Well, of course we already know that SinisterSntra installed a VQ30DET intake manifold onto his VQ35 swap that he's doing...

But in the thread below, a guy from a Maxima forum comments on how they installed a FWD VQ30DE head on to a VQ35 block and lowered the compression ratio.

http://www.vq30det.com/phpBB3/...1d104

He didn't give any details though...

Here's a little more info...

http://nico.zeroforum.com/zerothread/284103

Edit: You know what? I just realized... I've seen Grant/Yokota180sx "drifting" (kinda) his VQ30DET Cedric with turbo upgrade on youtube. I'll ask him about this motor...

Re-edit: Dammit! His email in his profile ain't working! I don't wanna bug him in Japan by calling him about this...
Modified by simmode1 at 8:12 AM 5/27/2009

[breadbox]

I have been interested in the VQ for a while but never invested any money toward it.

Can I get more info on NATS or why it is so problematic?

[simmode1]

To my understanding... NATS is a kind of security system Nissan developed. Probably stands for Nissan Anti Theft System, now that I think about it.

If you don't open the car door or start the motor with the specific Nissan key for that specific Nissan motor... the car won't start. So to get around this problem, you either gotta be a genius at wiring or you gotta use the ignition and door locks from the same car you got the motor from.

I could be wrong, but that's what I understand it to be. But at least it'll be a little harder for someone to steal your car! No more friends pulling pranks on you cuz their 240 keys work in your car too!

You really need to see the lengths SinistrSntra went thru to avoid the potential wiring nightmare.

http://zilvia.net/f/chat/18968....html

But then again, his whole project is redonkulously over the top. He's doing a VQ35 swap, though. Our hope is that the VQ30DET doesn't have this issue/problem.
Modified by simmode1 at 8:47 AM 5/27/2009

[gregfarz78]

Yep NATS is a pain the a** and from what I understand if you want to use the Z ECU you have to deal with a BCM also which is another issue in itself...basically unless you have a access to a consult II or are a nissan tech its going to be difficult. Why a few people used the maxima ECU but you lose vvt and a few ponies. The best way to do this swap is buy a complete front clip from a Z, theres plenty of salvage Z's around now for cheap a few thousand should get you a front clip.

[simmode1]

I'll tell you this... whoever figures out the most easiest way around the NATS problem while retaining the motor's full functionality is going to be rich and famous. And you think the VQ35's aftermarket is big now? Just wait.

Maybe we should start a betting pool on which company will market it first?

[RustspecS13]

I'll tell you one thing and that's the VQ30 has small combustion chambers then the VQ35. Guaranteed. Nismo race heads for the VQ35 have all VQ35 specs except the combustion chamber is smaller, and is the exact same CC as the 3L's.

That's nismos answer for the 3.5L na guys. The 3.5L heads flow better and the 3L heads have smaller chambers.

Also the 3.5L has more bore and stroke then the 3L. If you use 3L crank and rods you get 3.2L and lower compression. I want to say 1/1.5/2 points of CR IE 10.5:1 to 9:1 or so. So you get a rev happy 3.2L and lower compression. Perfect for boost.

How ever, if you put 3.5L crank and rods in your 3L you get the opposite. Surprise surprise. 3.3L 11:1 or close to 12:1, lower red line of the 3.5L w/o the last .2L, but it is a bump in power and comp tho. How ever the 3Ls biggest weakness is the lower flowing heads compared only to the 3.5L

NOW all this is from reading maxima.org and tatanko is on there, and I know hes very knowledgeable. He just has his info backwards. But every thing else is right. Also I only know about the USDM VQ30/35's, Im not sure how they apply to the JDM VQ30DET and VQ20 and VQ25 variants. I think theres also a 2.3L too.....

I should post more, but Im doing the delayed blinking so Im going to bed before I drool on my keyboard.

~Alex

[Ali 556]

The turbo setup is interesting on the vq30det. I wonder if you'd have a wrx type sound to your exhaust because of the different runner lengths.

i don't think soo,

rember the crapy VG30det On Z31...it sounded like a complete a**....and this is not that far from it...

i remember a TT 350Z made a crazy power (more than 600whp) but sounded like a truck...why?

V6 NEVER sound's good...

Oh and 2today i saw a 350Z with a 2JZ swap And A GT42...made 720whp

Take that crapy VQ35

[simmode1]

Thanks for the info, Rustspec! I'll looking into that some more.

Right now, I'm just sending emails out to different ppl I know in JDM-land to get their input. If I learn anything useful, I'll post it up...

[PhillyDaKid-S13]

Well, i guess ill chime in, only because ive been interested in doing a vq swap as well. i was mainly interested in the usdm vq30de, mainly because it lacks the NATS problem from the vq35, and has no variable timing, as well as some aftermarket support (JWT, et al.) The one main problem people will run into, as was mentioned already, is the intake manifold issue and thats with any vq you choose (at least the front wheel ones anyways....), as they face the rear and touch the firewall when installed. I was looking at this manifold from kinetix.....it moves the throttle body away from the firewall, but you cant really tell from the pictures whether its enough of a move....

http://www.turbo-owners.com/fo....html

also, on the whole variable timing issue with the vq35. I know greddy has a unit called the V-manage that controls variable timing. now if you look on greddy's site for the unit....

http://greddy.com/products/dis...ry=72

it says that theres even a plug and play harness for the 350z/g35 vq35! SO....i imagine that this could be a viable if someone were to figure out the similarities of the 350z and maxima/altima/quest ECUs, if any. Then it would be a simple matter of wiring in the harness to the right pinouts and mapping. of course it'll be a lil more detailed than that, but there IS hope, according to what I see....the motor mounts, from what ive read (someone confirm?) are in the same position on both vq30 and 35 motors, and member irax on these forums is developing mount kits for sale, if he doesnt have them available already. so the only thing that would remain a problem would be getting around this whole NATS business. ive also read that you can somehow get a nissan dealership to help with that, can anyone confirm this as well?

[PhillyDaKid-S13]

matter of fact, i KNOW we have fabbers right here on these forums that can whip up front facing vq intake mani's with their eyes closed.....we need to get a hold of them.....hellerrrrr...... lol

[PhillyDaKid-S13]

HELLOOOOooooooOOOOO!!!!! what have we here?!?!

http://www.autoalarmpro.com/inc/sdetail/2699

theres even a wiring diagram for all late model vq equipped nissans!

SCORE!!!!
Modified by PhillyDaKid-S13 at 5:14 PM 5/29/2009

[RustspecS13]

WOW thats a REALLY good find if it works for custom swaps!!

But on the downside, I believe the greddy modifies the stock signal and I do not think it can run VTC's standalone. But I do not know exactly how it works. If it does....megasquirt II and v manage here I come!!

All FWD VQs have the same mounting points. All RWD VQs have the same mounting points. At least up untill the HRs and 37HR's Im not 100% on them.

~Alex

[PhillyDaKid-S13]

ok, little bit of news. from trolling the maxima forums, i have found that it IS in fact possible to run a vq35 block with vq30 heads and timing equipment, thereby removing the problems concerning variable timing, as well as possible the NATS system (still doing research on that.) now it is true there is a bit of power loss by forgoing the VTC, but i believe that can be made up by using the 350z intake manifold instead of the stock one, still trying to find out how much modification is required to use it on the vq30 head. also, i emailed greddy regarding the vmanage unit. heres what the response was:

[email protected] to me show details 1:15 PM (5 hours ago) Reply

Thank you for your interest in GReddy products.The Vmanage is available here in the USA, in limited numbers. We can special more units from Japan at any time.However to use the Vmanage, you will have to already have a factory signal from the stock ECU. It will not independently control the valve timing.

For purchasing please contact an authorized GReddy Dealer : http://greddy.com/authorized/

---

Check out the latest from our new GReddy USA Blog : http://greddy-usa.blogspot.com/

GReddy Performance Products, Inc.9 VanderbiltIrvine, CA 92618(949) 588-8300http://www.greddy.com

so, for those who want to use the stock vq35 ecu, the vmanage way work to your advantage as it only works with the stock ECU (good deduction rustspec.) Also, i found a swap guide for using the vq30 heads and a vq35 block. im at work so i dont have the link on hand, but will post it up asap.

[gregfarz78]

Interesting about the vq30 heads on the vq35 block I may consider that option post that link up when you get a chance.

[PhillyDaKid-S13]

aye, captain.

[RustspecS13]

Ah yes that's one of the things I was going to talk about.

The VQ30 heads flow less then the VQ35's. And the cams are smaller of course.

When 95-99 maxima guys do the 3.5L swap, they usually use the old 3L timing equipment. That meaning all the front timing cover and all it bolts too, the chains, cam gears, IE every thing forward of the block/heads themselves. That way the 3L ecu reads all the right sensors and all that, and you still get the higher flowing heads.

Now the one complication is the cam dowels are drilled differently. And you will fubar your cam timing and break parts if you just drop them in. Most people drill them out to the right timing or have a machine shop do it. JWT will do it or knows about it I believe, I think they have done tuned 3L-> 3.5L ecus.

So you can drill your 3.5L cams to fit the 3L timing equipment, or use upgraded 3L cams.

Now Ive never done any of this in person, just seen lots of pics of it and lots of maxima guys actually doing it.

I know you cant use the 350z upper and lower intake manifolds on the 3L. It doesn't line up and the ports are different shape I believe. You can if you use the 3.5L heads. You just have to block off the vtc ports, or not use them.

I actually want to run a USDM VQ30DE+T in my daily driver s13 in a few years. Since that way I can use all maxima/Z parts and still use the 95-98 (since 99s are more complicated) ecu. Thats of course after my track s13 gets the VQ35-T buhahahha.

But untill then I have to figure out what decently priced EMS will run my VTC's...

~Alex