Airbag light

A forum for the Nissan Quest... minivan lovers unite!
schuylkill
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Car: 2004 Nissan Quest SE

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The SRS airbag light is staying lit on my 2004 SE. I looked at the manual and it says to check that an airbag hasn't deployed or a seatbelt hasn't lost its tension. Next to check #13 fuse. I also saw a Youtube video saying to check the harness plugs under the seats. I only have the two front seats in the van now. Can that be related? I assumed the light being on was because there was no one riding in the passenger seat. Recently my son went with me to pick up a wood stove and the light stayed on. That's how I came to investigate and see that it is a problem. Of course. Any other suggestions for things that can be safely done on my own? Is there a general scan gauge I could purchase that would help with this or is there onboard diagnostics I could use? I don't see suggestions for diagnostics for a steady on light. Hopefully everyone avoided the worst of the recent tornado storm damage. Devastating.


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VStar650CL
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Do you mean the red airbag icon in the dash cluster, or the yellow "PABI" indicator for the passenger bag? If the dash icon is lit then you need to get the airbag brain scanned, there are about a hundred things that could light it. The most common by far is a bad spiral cable. If the dash icon is out but the PABI isn't working properly, it almost always means a problem in the OCS mat under the passenger seat cushion which "weighs" the passenger to decide if and how much the passenger bag should deploy. Those mats are a hideously expensive proposition, so I hope it isn't that.

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VStar650CL
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I just checked, you can get flash codes without a scanner on your '04. Here's a link to the right section of the SM, the diagnostic procedures start on page SRS-19, the flash code chart is on SRS-37:

https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... %2Fsrs.pdf

schuylkill
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It's the red icon in the cluster. (Ball in lap!) I'll look into the flash codes that you point out, thanks. I thought that they were relevant if the airbag light was flashing. Where is the spiral cable located?

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VStar650CL
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The spiral cable is what connects the steering wheel to the rest of the car (also called a clockspring). The driver airbag conductors run through it, so if you get driver airbag codes, that will be your culprit and not the bags. The squib circuits in Nissan bags fail very rarely. I've seen exactly one, ever. So any bag or pretensioner code you get will almost certainly be a wiring or corrosion issue, not a bad bag.

schuylkill
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So, since the airbag light on my van is always on, I can't perform the flash code check, correct? Or am I not understanding what will be flashing?

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VStar650CL
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Yes, looks like yours doesn't light solid with DTC's like the later models. If it isn't a blown fuse then it looks like you'll need to get it scanned. If the bag brain shows up on scan then it will most likely be a problem with the warning light wiring or the cluster, if it doesn't then it will be a problem with the brain or its power supply.

schuylkill
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So is the scan a dealer only appointment or would a reputable local shop have that ability? Manual says if it isn't the fuse to check the diagnosis sensor unit and if not it the wiring harness or connections. Is the sensor unit the brain?

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VStar650CL
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Yah, Nissan calls it by several different names depending where you look in the documentation, but it's the brain by any other name. Any good shop scanner should be able to read it. If it doesn't show up on scan, then you know there's either a power issue or the brain is dead. They're almost all located underneath the center console just like yours is, so the most common cause of brain death is spilled soda pop or coffee.

schuylkill
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So I had a scan today, not at a shop but by a guy that used to run a small shop who has his own scanner he uses on cars at auction. Nothing showed up under airbag or SRS. I found that the fuse was missing for the passenger air bag sensor. I put one in the block and the light showed up on the display. I think that this airbag light has been on since I got the van, I can't recall with certainty. If the passenger airbag light stays lit when someone is in the seat could that point to a common problem? I haven't tried that yet, looking ahead. If I look online for the brain, under what category and by what name will I most likely find it? The following 2 codes were found:
U1000 Can Comm Circuit
P705 T/M Range Sensor A

schuylkill
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Is it the Chassis Control Box?

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VStar650CL
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The P0705 is that Range Switch again, it's probably a leftover from when you replaced it. The U1000 is a no-comm code and probably means a dead brain, and the PABI (actually the whole OCS system) won't operate with a dead brain. So if it's been that way for awhile, I'd take a peek under the console and see if someone drowned it in soda pop, or maybe you bought a repaired flood car and didn't know it. If it is dead, none of your airbags will be functional.

Replacing it is simple but finding a good used part won't be, at least if you want it to be plug-and-play. Nissan uses the same generic brains on dozens of models and just changes the firmware, so you can't go by the part number label on the unit. That means the only way to assure an identical used part is to get one off an applicable vehicle. NissanPartsDeal shows your p/n as 98820-5Z080. It goes for $496 list, $333 from NPD, and it only fits '04~'06 Quest. The good news is, it appears to fit all '04~'06 Quests regardless of trim, so it might be hard to find from a JY but not impossible. Get it from a reputable JY if you go that route, because it has to come from a vehicle that was scrapped for mechanical reasons and not because of collision. You can send a collided unit out to be reprogrammed, but those places generally only clear the flash memory and don't check the squib drivers, so I don't trust the method. It's rare, but you can end up with a unit that seems okay can't blow one or more of the airbags in a crash.

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VStar650CL
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schuylkill wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:08 pm
Is it the Chassis Control Box?
No, it should look something like this:

20170311_191114.jpg
20170311_191130.jpg
It's definitely underneath your console, I already checked that.

schuylkill
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When I search on car-part.com for airbag control module, which is a choice as a listed part, it's a bit confusing because you get a screen with a choice of 14 parts for various functions. The 2 for actual airbags are Air Bag (floor behind console) side seat air bags, and a second choice for same location but w/o side seat airbags. I'm going to call one of the yards and see if I can get more details with my vin and if they offer shipping.
Do you know where in manual to look for how to R&R the part? You mentioned it's simple so that's encouraging. If it is on the floor as in the description above, I assume you would get access at the bottom end of the console cover?
Thanks again.

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VStar650CL
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Yep, it's on the floor under the console, should be 3 screws holding it down. R&I is on page SRS-57 in the SM.

schuylkill
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OK I am confused by the first step in SRS-57 in SM. So after disconnecting both battery cables and waiting at least 3 minutes step 1 says:
"Disconnect the harness connectors for each air bag module and seat belt pretensioner."
There are not other instructions on this and step 2 goes on to removing lower cover on center console.
So is this referring to a common location on the harness where plugs are located, like under the front seats or something, or do I need to access each airbag module and seatbelt pretensioner, wherever they are located?

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VStar650CL
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For some reason they always say to take all the modules loose, but it's BS. They sure don't pay for taking them all loose when it's warranty flat-rate, so I'm sure they know it's BS. Just make sure you ground yourself to bare metal on the car to discharge any static before touching the brain, then remove the 3 brain connectors. With the battery disconnected, static is the only thing that can hurt you.

schuylkill
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So is the potential problem with static electricity to the electronics or the human? Would it help if the vehicle frame was grounded first? I ordered a used brain today, $50 plus $16 shipping and handling from a yard in Maryland, I'm in Pennsylvania. I remember now that the seller told me that his daughter spilled a drink on the console. I don't remember if he mentioned the airbag resulting problem. I bought it from a guy who was returning home to Siberia and I had to drop him off with the van in New Jersey near NYC where he was flying from and it was a hectic arrangement. I still can't believe I bought it, my son talked me into it and I haven't seen him around for the repair work he promised he'd help with if needed!

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VStar650CL
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schuylkill wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:39 pm
So is the potential problem with static electricity to the electronics or the human?
The human. If your finger throws a spark to a bag wire...

MM.png
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..."There's the Earth-shattering ka-boom!"

schuylkill
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SM reads to replace the 3 mounting screws and the ground screw. Is this necessary? I have a wire wheel on my bench grinder and can clean them up well with it. Good enough? SM also wants ID number of unit to be checked after installation but I don't see how that is done. Also it reads like the cluster lights should correct themselves if all is well. Hopefully that will be the case. This is new territory for me.

schuylkill
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Oh and thanks for Marvin the Martian! I had to check out his wiki, born in 1948, 4 years older than me!

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VStar650CL
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You can re-use the screws, just clean them up. Wire-wheeling will do fine. The ID can only be checked with an SRS-capable scanner. The new brain shouldn't have any codes in it, so if all is well after it self-tests, the light will be out. If it does come on, it should give you blinkies to identify the problem.

schuylkill
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I've got blinkies. Long annoying blinkies. I asked my son to help me record the pattern. Hopefully the problem isn't major. The old brain was in bad shape. White acid powder like on a battery was heavy along the front bottom edge and it was corroded through. I used Permatex anti-seize on the ground bolt, that shouldn't cause a problem should it? A light ring around the bolt on about 3 threads. Also there was no terminal or any sort of connection to that bolt. It just grounds directly to the threaded bracket I assume. I cleaned the bracket up well with steel wool but I didn't spray the threads out or anything. I did run a new matching thread size bolt into the hole but it wasn't an exact match so I didn't use it. Also SM didn't mention removing the duct that sits over the brain but I didn't see how to get around it so I removed the duct and the 2 steel offset plates on each outer side. I thought things went well, hopefully the "new" brain will work. There was a layer of insulation or something hanging down sitting over the ground bolt and one mounting bolt and I pushed that down to get it out of the way for access to the bolts and didn't replace it like it was after install. That slipped my mind or I would have although it didn't seem like a good place for it.

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VStar650CL
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The mountings aren't terribly important as long as the brain case has a solid chassis ground. The flash patterns are a bit arcane, but now that the brain is alive, you can get it read by any SRS-capable scanner. Most high-end units will do that, so you're not stuck with a dealer. Before going further, if the old brain was that badly corroded, try some Deoxit on the female connector pins. There may be a bunch of corroded pins inside the backshells.

schuylkill
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I will do the Deoxit treatment first but I don't think that is the problem, most of the corrosion was towards the front of the unit, not at the plug side. I think it's because it is giving multiple error codes that the blink sequence is so long and so confusing. After the solid there is a long blink, then 2 short blinks twice, then 2 longer blinks, then 7 blinks then 8 blinks. It looks like 7 blinks is a malfunctioning brain if I read things correctly. Anyway Deoxit tomorrow and then Monday I can get a scan if need be and I'm sure that will be the case.

schuylkill
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Applied Deoxit with a tiny brush and no change. I have to look at the chart again but 7 and 8 blinks are either for the side or side curtain airbag modules LS and RS. So the backs of the front seats don't stay snapped closed, they hang back slightly at the top so I peaked in looking for a hanging plug or something out of sorts. I found a plastic pint bottle of Jack Daniels with a couple of shots left in it in the passenger seat! I gave it to my wife and told her the story and she accused me of drinking it. I haven't had a drink in 20 years. This is not going well.

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VStar650CL
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The seven blinks for the brain may be that you got a brain with the wrong firmware, not necessarily a hardware malfunction. The firmware code number should match one of the ones in the SM if scanned. If not, it's the wrong brain.

The side airbag type that's inside the seatback is usually part of the seatback assembly and can't be purchased separately. In the case of your ride, they show most of the seatbacks not even available anymore, so you'll most likely need to hit the JY. Some of them bolt in and some are welded, so you may be able to replace just the bag and not have to disassemble the whole back. You'll just have to examine yours and see if it's bolted. The bag will be located on the outboard side of the outboard seatback frame rail, so the zipper or j-hooks on that side will need to be undone to get a look.

The good news is, Nissan bag brains are designed to use whatever resources they have in a crash, so whatever bags are working should still deploy even if some others are out of order, or even if the brain is the wrong one.

schuylkill
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VStar650CL wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:08 pm
The seven blinks for the brain may be that you got a brain with the wrong firmware, not necessarily a hardware malfunction. The firmware code number should match one of the ones in the SM if scanned. If not, it's the wrong brain.
I don't see code numbers in the SM. SRS-57 discriminated no. refers to itself as the place to find the numbers and they aren't listed. And it states ECU Discriminated No., is the ECU the airbag brain in this case? So anyway I don't see where to find the numbers for checking.

schuylkill
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Is Consult II that is referred to for diagnostic work in SM a scan tool used at dealerships?

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VStar650CL
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The discriminated number is what I meant. Most Nissan controllers upload a Nissan part number when queried with a scanner, but bag brains upload a discriminated number instead. High-end shop scanners can usually upload it just like a Consult2 or Consult3+.


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