accumulators 1994 Q 45 A

[rondofargo]

can i put a refill valve in my accumulators?if so how much nitrgen pressure in each one? the shock is leaking fluid do i need shocks{actuators also?}

[maxnix]

Welcome to the club!

You need to go to http://www.q45asuspension.com and read every post by TexasOil on this board.

Then you can read all posts by Q45tech to maintain the rest of the car.

You have a unique automobile. Keith will help you get it right.

[rondofargo]

wow this is a great club one hour and i had a response.i hate to ask keith the specifics about rechaging them,without buying from his company.im taking it to fargo tire on tue to see if they will work on it.everything works ,hight,traction control,but the rear struts {accuators}are leaking and the car rides rough.the car has 120k on it but its like new.i bought it in 1996 for 23k with 22,000 miles from infiniti in omaha.why is infiniti not supporting this by providing parts at a decent price?could i add aftermarket accumulators?

[rondofargo]

also what type of fluid is type A can i buy a generic oil,we use a special oil in our rescue tools that is clear at the fire station any thoughts?i will be changing the a oil also when i get this fixed .i chaged it at 60 k the last time and the oil was expensive.

[ScottJackson]

The active Fruid isn't cheap, but I don't think anyone has found a cheap alternative. Don't use transmission fluid or anything like that. Once you recharge your accumulators, the struts won't leak as much and may stop leaking completely. Texasoil has suggested adding some Marvel Mystery Oil to the system to help stop the leaks. I would think maybe a SMALL amount of auto trans stop leak may also do the trick (that's what I'm gonna try next). I've typed a couple times the details of how I added valves and charged my own accumulators. Please don't have a tire shop try to recharge them. If you're very handy with drills, taps, and basic mechanical knowledge, you can recharge them yourself. Search for my old posts about how to do it and don't skip any steps. You'll probably be fine if you do that. I used cheapy tank valves, but aircraft grade nitrogen valves would be the best as mine have leaked some (valves haven't failed but I put John Deere nitrogen accumulator cores in the valves to better hold the pressure).

[Q45tech]

The active struts are priced exactly the same as the Lexus Air ride shocks.

Why should Nissan lose money to support a 17-12+ year old car.

Don't confuse the fact that dealers double cost to arrive at retail like most businesses.

The $3800 option price should have warned buyers that furure parts would be double this at minimum.

[maxnix]

also what type of fluid is type A can i buy a generic oil,we use a special oil in our rescue tools that is clear at the fire station any thoughts?i will be changing the a oil also when i get this fixed .i chaged it at 60 k the last time and the oil was expensive.

You really need to read the posts. Really.

[96Qowner]

Hey, guy! Another Q45 poster from FM! Welcome to NICO.

Mine's the green 96 with the turbine wheels - which one's yours? - I'm betting one of the Pearl ones - I think I may have seen it at Moorhead Hornbacher's. [Edit: Heheh, I see you have TWO Q's - good man]

wow this is a great club one hour and i had a response.i hate to ask keith the specifics about rechaging them,without buying from his company.im taking it to fargo tire on tue to see if they will work on it.

It really IS a great club! Sorry, but Fargo Tire can't help you - Maybe Fargo Aero Tech. Seriously, you won't find a better alternative than Keith for maintaining your active Q45. Here's his website:

http://www.q45asuspension.com/

He installs new rechargeable valves and has the correct charging ratios for the system. A couple other posters have installed their own aircraft quality, high pressure valves, but while they got their systems to work, they have no way of knowing what the correct pressures are, which can be dangerous, and which no responsible person would advise for another.

I believe Keith refits and recharges all nine accumulators for something like $1200. He's been doing it for years and knows as much or more about actives than anyone NICO has ever run across. His knowledge will help you keeps yours in top condition at the least cost.

Give him a call, at least.
Modified by 96Qowner at 9:50 AM 3/26/2007

[rondofargo]

yes i have a 96t that is pearl and nowa silver 94a thanks for the info

[lino]

why is infiniti not supporting this by providing parts at a decent price?

Because they are greedy little pigs. Wait until the Asian business guys make their attack into the parts market soon and destroy Nissan's part business. There is strong talk that they're on their way into Canada right now, with the ability to sell parts at less than half the price of the dealer's cost and still make a profit.

could i add aftermarket accumulators?

I've never heard of an aftermarket solution. I bought mine from Keith and he's a wonder person to deal with and is highly recommended. He knows exactly what pressure and details necessary to make them work correctly. There is another member who tried to do them on his own, but couldn't get them to work right. Why go through the hassle? Keith has the proper formula. All you have to do is remove and replace.

Here is something Keith wrote in another thread:

As a good engineer, and with ready access to some of the world's best metallurgists and vessel engineers, I used the talent (these guys ARE rocket scientists and nuclear reactor designers BTW). My methods were well checked and verified sound by well qualified persons besides myself (I made an A in Strength of Materials). Welding is not a simple answer. The steel alloy of the accumulators is not standard, and getting a crack resistant weld joint to 'strut valves' is next to impossible without preheating the accumulator to 450F min. The piston rings ( unique double O-ring bands) melt at a much lower temp than that--so to weld, one has to cool the piston by?. Oh, BTW, you have to use an exquisitly costly weld metal, a very costly high frequency TIG setup, and a welder 'certified' in this particular weld to stand a reasonable chance. Even then, weld cracking probability unacceptably high. Quick and dirty might work,or might not. Me, I sleep well at night knowing I did my best,consulted the real materials and fabrication experts for advice, recomendations, assistance. Have had a few 'leakers' on post recharge Q/A(>1,<10), 3 developed slow leaks in customer service (and were promptly replaced under warranty)

and

The accumulator pressures for the different services are different (of course). One has to consider the absorb/rebound ratio for the strut units, factoring in the valving of the strut piston valve. Then there is the base operating pressure range that changes with car weight (empty/full), fluid viscosity changes with temp, etc. This is just for the strut accumulators. Not a trivial undertaking to find out what works best (equals OEM) IF someone wants to supply me a brand new OEM accumulator, for $500 I will build a test jig and precisely determine the original charge pressure of the strut accumulators furnished and post it (but did it leak down in sitting on the shelf for how long? that's why mine are fresh on shipment) --remember front and rear are different-- Now--for the other accumulators its a little more complicated. One can 'tune' the pressures to provide optimum response for different road conditions--but what are those road conditions and what car weight?--how many undulations/holes/bumps of what magnitude at what frequency? and what engine RPM so pump can 'make-up' how much fluid in what time? One can do a lot of calculations and get vastly different 'optimum' accumulator pressures with different assumptions--and unless you have the Bode and Nyquist diagrams of the entire control system frequency response--you are shooting in the dark. Takes a good dynamic simulation or multi-million $/data collection/analysis system test bed to sweep through the millions of possible combinations of pump accumulator, front & rear accumulators,valve accums and strut accum pressures to re-engineer the OEM values. Burned a lot of CPU days on some really powerful workstations nights and weekends with some real complicated dynamic simulation software to look at the system response characteristics. You guys know from experience what happens when the pressures decay--but what happens if you overcharge one or more accumulators--does the system go unstable (yes it can and will toss the car around real nastily and 'fail-safe' circuitry will shut it off.) You screw around with sophisticated control systems like this and YOU are the test driver/guinea-pig. It's not just adding nitrogen to a pressure vessel (complicated enough to develop a valve installation/closure method that is safe, reliable and leaktight.) It's what happens if you guess wrong and things start to come apart.

Check out your car insurance exclusions and life insurance exclusion sections carefully--most will not cover you.

also what type of fluid is type A can i buy a generic oil?

I live in Canada and there is no Active Fluid A available. I drove down to the us twice to buy some, but now I'm about 1000 miles away from teh nearest US dealer so that's out of the question. I've been buying the Mercede stuff lately to deal with a leak in my right rear actuator.

[rondofargo]

well this is a tough call fargo tire read my sevice manual and said they did not want to work on it.stopped by air place said they could prob find accumulater but didnt know how they where attached to the shock,and did not know what the pressure should be at.john deere would fill them if i could tap them but again no egineers to know what pressre to set them.I think ill call texas oil ad try the back 2 that the shocks are leaking oil.

[rondofargo]

thaks all,no more400 dollar options for me.

[ScottJackson]

unless you're very mechanically inclined and willing to guess the pressure, then I do suggest getting all 4 wheel accums done by texasoil. It cost me around $30 to put valves in my accumulators and have them filled to 600psi. That's low, but it was a good starting point. It was also the safest way to go as far as refilling them. I refilled the 4 strut ones a while ago and one had developed a leak so it was all out of nitrogen. I took the others up to 800psi. I really need to get some more accumulators so I can replace leakers (when they do start leaking) or just do the dreaded conversion. I have a parts car with the standard suspension and 4 Tokico blues with less than 100 miles on them, so conversion for me is free. Just have to see. Good luck.

[maxnix]

Two things I have noticed about active owners:

1.) The only owners who consider converting have never had a fully functional active suspension.

2). The owners who have experienced a fully functional active suspension never consider conversion.

[ScottJackson]

Quitters never win, winners never quit, those who never win and never quit are idiots. Yes, probably anyone who spends the $$$ to have a completely perfectly functioning active probably won't be willing to do a conversion. Those who are dumb enough to buy an active without the $$$ to make it perfect (me) consider conversion because at some point, it no longer makes economic sense to refresh all of it. I do love the active suspension, but it is a 15 yr old car and the rear struts are leaking, the power steering pump has a small leak from the body, at least one accumulator is bad, and honestly, I don't do enough spirited driving in the 2 ton sedan to justify the cost in replacing those parts with new ones. I'll probably recharge my accumulators again and try to find another used accumulator to replace the leaker, but after that it's probably gonna get the conversion.

[CINNALOCKS]

I agree with you Scott. I know forum members hate to hear it but all of us do not have an income that allows the upkeep on the A. Most members seem to have difficulty doing the required maintainance. These cars while I love mine is anything but economical.

Since mine was sitting I figured better a conversion than the junkyard. I got no takers when I tried to sell it in 02.

My 94 A was left to me by my dad after he passed. I knew nothing about it other than it ran, looked good, but had a truck like ride. I wish I could have afforded not to do a conversion, but every bushing and most suspension parts were bad.The cost was prohibitive for me. I have never ridden in or driven an A the was functioning so I have no idea what I am missing. I do enjoy my Q as it is with the blues. Better on the road than at the junkyard.

[ScottJackson]

That's just the thing. I think it's worth refilling the accumulators as long as they hold a charge and up until a certain age. My actuators are leaking and the bushings are about shot. It's coming down to do or die time. That is, do the conversion or let it die. Better to keep it living than junk it. There's too many Qs getting junked. Time goes marching on and we must deal with it as best we can. An E39 BMW 540i in good shape can be had for $11000 now, with the 6 speed. There's a lot of newer cars that frankly eclipse the G50 in many aspects which are at a price low enough that I just cannot justify to dump lots of money into the Q.

[rondofargo]

yes thats what i bought the q for quality and not having to spend a lot to fix them, and very seldom fix them.I dont want to have to tell people i got rid of the A because the two struts would be 2072 dollars with more to follow. i am sure glad there is a person like texas oil that took it upon himself to fix this infiniti probem for the workin class.i never have bought a car thinking that an option would cost twice as much in parts to fix it ,oh well ill live.

[Q45tech]

There is a reason the Japanese government requires a total inspection and rehabilitation to brand new standards at 62,000 miles [100,000 km] to renew registration. Then again annually thereafter.

[ScottJackson]

Is that reason $$$ (or yen, I guess)?

[maxnix]

Is that reason $$$ (or yen, I guess)?

No, most civilized first world countries are very restrictive about the condition fo the vehicles they let operate on their roads. Japan and Germany are at the top of that list. They operate that a citizen should maintin his vehicle in top operating condition to inxure the common safety on their roads. Age of vehicle nor economic state of the owner are not exceptions. One must maintain to an as new standard so everyone is operating a safe vehicle.

Probably 90% of the cars in the rust belt and even 30% elsewhere in the US would not be permitted on their roads. Of course, driver exams are much more stringent also. One cannot allow cars maintained to a lesser standard on unlimited speed highways like the Autobahn. and maintain the low accident fatality rate.

[rondofargo]

oh no the strut with accumulater is 1036 dollars each us currency .the parts guy said that his cost was over 900 dollars.told me at this point it may be a throw away car ,he seemed sorry to tell me that. i would still drive tis car in montana at 100 mph as i did years ago going skiing until the law changed.I think if it 3000 a year to keep up an infiniti i bought the wrong cars.

[ScottJackson]

It is the wrong car for anyone who wants an economical car... if they aren't willing to go out of their way doing mechanic work for themselves on most everything that goes bad.

[CINNALOCKS]

I found this on the q45 forum.......it is an issue for everyone with an A. Infiniti and T3 realize the economics and have a conversion available.Do not misunderstand I would have loved to have kept a fine running A, but at 55 I would love to not have to get up every night just to take a piss too.

My 92 Q45a recently went flat. As it turns out the struts were blown out and at least 2 of the accumulators were leaking badly. I called Ty at T3 in Atlanta, he told me that they could do a conversion to a standard suspension system.

It was a little more than I wanted to spend, but it was the best money I have spent in a long time. In addition to doing a killer job on my car, I was able to get a couple of other items from T3 while I was there. The guys at T3 even installed the parts I wanted off another Q! In addition to the better ride, my car get better milage and stops better than ever.

These guys really know what they're doing, I believe 3 of the 4 guys have early model Q themselves. Their customer service is great, and their labor rate is about half of what the Infiniti dealer in Memphis charges.

I am already planning another trip to get my chain guides done. Anyone who is considering an active suspension conversion or new chain guides should consider going to T3. Their prices are fair, they have a great deal of Q45 knowledge, and they are very easy to deal with.

[CINNALOCKS]

No, most civilized first world countries are very restrictive about the condition fo the vehicles they let operate on their roads. Japan and Germany are at the top of that list. They operate that a citizen should maintin his vehicle in top operating condition to inxure the common safety on their roads. Age of vehicle nor economic state of the owner are not exceptions. One must maintain to an as new standard so everyone is operating a safe vehicle.

Probably 90% of the cars in the rust belt and even 30% elsewhere in the US would not be permitted on their roads. Of course, driver exams are much more stringent also. One cannot allow cars maintained to a lesser standard on unlimited speed highways like the Autobahn. and maintain the low accident fatality rate.

Thing is we do not have good roads. Nor do we have many alternative sources of transportation in the US. The railways, buses and subways, with the exception of the New York, perhaps, in this country do not encourage riders and do not address consumers destination needs.

People are forced to own a vehicle to get where they need to be(jobs food services) Many states at one time had more stringent yearly safety inspections as part of the registration process, too much fraud and too many unable to meet the standards. Basic things like brakes, tires, windsheilds, mirrors, added to the cost of registration in some states like Indiana were prohibitive so it was abandonned. Sure there are more fatal accidents but at least people get to choose to drive or not to drive.

If I have to own a vehicle and I do, I like the q for many reasons. When the vehicle is worth about $3500 blue book, to do the conversion made since to me. It may not make since to everyone, but then nothing is for everyone. It is still a fine car and with the JWFSTB, the blues, bushings, arms, tires and rods.........I have a nice ride that is safe, runs well and is in my economic range. Most of all being on the forum has given me alternatives which has enabled me to keep the q maintained and on the road.

[texasoil]

I occasionally hear from Q45a owners who balk at the present cost of recharged accumulators. I have thought about reducing the price--but it still takes me over an hour/accumulator to get them in the box for shipping (not counting paperwork and taking them to FedEx.) Here are my thoughts:

If you want to fix your Q45a accumulators yourself-don't ask me ANYTHING. You may make the top of Darwin's list. If you want a cheap smooth ride-buy something else. Don't try and make me feel sorry for you for any reason--its your problem, not mine. I have had plenty of 'growing experiences' in my life, including skin and prostate cancer (beat them both), and live every day hoping to enjoy it. I struggle always with major depression (courtesy of some real real nasty activities during my time in the Service of Uncle Sam--also got my cancers that way)

I DO make generous allowances for active duty soldiers and teachers and others I take a liking to--that's my way of being a good guy.

I have a good product, a fair price, stand behind my work and products 100% and provide unmatched customer service and assistance.

Why? Because I BELIEVE in the Q45a--it is the most under appreciated car in the world. The 73-75 Citroen SM (Maserati 4 cam V-6, 3-2bbl downdraft BIG Webbers) was a similar car, but the Q-ship is SO much better.

In nearly 16 years of Q45a ownership (92 and 94) , 9 and 7 years respectively, nearly 150K miles on horrible roads, I have NEVER had a active system failure of any kind-other than original recharge and re-recharge of the 4 strut units on wife's-and replacing the active system pump on wifes (PS side leaked due to poor previous owner lack of fluid changes) That is as trouble free as is possible.

[maxnix]

Sure there are more fatal accidents but at least people get to choose to drive or not to drive.

If I have to own a vehicle and I do, I like the q for many reasons. When the vehicle is worth about $3500 blue book, to do the conversion made since (sic)to me. It may not make since[(sic)/I] to everyone, but then nothing is for everyone.

I for one am not reassured by that conclusion. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

Might make mores sense if you don't confuse the noun sense with the adverb, preposition, or conjunction (but never a noun) since. Not quite homonyms either.

[Q45tech]

Isn't it emotionally draining to hear people whine, cry, and poor mouth all day but that is the retail automotive repair business.

Sometimes they bring a car full of raggedly dressed children [borrowed from neighbors] to help. Yet you notice exotic expensive lux items thrown in trunk or expensive wheels and stereos, ipods, blackberries, drugs.

[maxnix]

Consumers often confuse businesses with charities or governmental entitlements.

[lino]

I have a good product, a fair price, stand behind my work and products 100% and provide unmatched customer service and assistance.

That has been very true for me. Keith has been super kind to me always and has continuously provided me with unconditional support.