[New Member] '89 240sx Hatch Restoration & RB20DET Rebuild

General discussion forum about the 240sx, and a great place to introduce yourself to the board!
Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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Hello all - figured it was about time that I started a build thread and benefitted from everyone's knowledge/advice.

Since I know no one likes reading, I'm going to try to keep my comments short. I'm an undergrad ChemE student, and decided to take a year off from school to complete an internship. As a 21-year old keen on making financially responsible decisions, I spent my first paycheck on a half-finished project car (being from NY, I couldn't say no to a 30-year-old japanese car with no rust.) :naughty:

I have ZERO experience building / working on engines, though I've done a fair bit of bodywork and audio/electronics installations. So I'm learning as I go :biggrin:

'89 hatch with over 200k on the body. Despite that, the only rust is a small patch on the trunk floor which will be an easy fix. Can't say the wiring is in good condition though, there are bare wires poking out on the headlight harness. Going to be fixing the entire chassis harness at some point, not entirely sure how I'm going to go about that yet though.
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Started off ripping out the interior to look for any rust spots hiding under the carpet. The tar sound-deadener stuff from the factory is gross as s**t, and will be coming out eventually. Got the car ripped apart when someone decided to complain to my apt complex about my "mechanical work on an automobile," so I moved the car and paused working on it. Didn't know that taking out door panels counted as mechanical work :wtf2:
(Yes, the car came with a fire extinguisher. Guess I wasn't the only one skeptical of the wiring :facepalm: )
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Finally got a space in a garage where I could pull the engine, thanks to my awesome friend. Borrowed a hoist from a coworker, and out she came. 10,000lb break-strength tow straps ftw!
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Been tearing apart the engine over the past couple weekends. Started up top and worked my way down, leaving the head mostly intact.
Ran into the first problem when pulling the cams. The intake cam came out smoothly, while I had to PRY the exhaust cam out of the head. Upon further inspection, the male key that goes into the gear was cracked & bent. Looks like it's time to upgrade cams, unless I find a good deal on craigslist. :gotme
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Fun fact: the purple is Clemson purple, and was done by the same guy who powdercoated Death Valley.

Next up was struggling with the ARP head studs & nuts, lots of me & the engine stand spinning around in circles while I tried to find a good point to brace from. Finally got them out, and got the head off.
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Lots of caked on carbon, but the cylinder walls are quite smooth. I was feeling pretty optimistic at this point.

In my attempts to get the crank pulley bolt out I ended up turning the engine over. I was expecting to hear a knock, but it turned smoothly without any sounds. Got the girdle off, at which point it spat out one of the main bearings when turning over
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Said to heck with it, and pulled the pistons out with the crank still in. Thinking that I'm going to need to borrow an impact to get that dang nut off the crank snout.
Then out came rod bearing #4:
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After looking at the bearings, these were ACL bearings that originally come with a black-ish coating. So this one was quite ground up :frown:

On the plus side, all of the bearings looked much better than what I've seen when other RB's end up with rod knock. Next up is finding a good machinist in the area and taking the crank to be ground, conrods to be polished/ground, and getting oversized bearings. Planning on getting the block checked and tanked as well, since the coolant passages are fairly corroded. Depending on how all that goes, I'll eventually have the shop balance the entire rotating assembly.



Also, since I've generally seen a lot of dislike for the RB20:
No, I'm not going to scrap the 20 and get a 25. I'm a college kid. I have no intentions of buying a long block + custom drivetrain + motor mounts + wiring harness + ecu + etc etc. I've always wanted to take apart an engine, so I'm quite content rebuilding this one. Besides, I'll know exactly what was done to the engine. :crazy:


wa-chiss
Posts: 2569
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:23 pm
Car: 1990 Nissan S13 H/C KA24E
2005 Toyota Sequoia
1976 Honda CB750F Super Sport
Location: San Angelo, TX

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Welcome aboard. Don't listen to haters. It's your car and your money. Do with it what you want. It's nobody's right to tell you what you should/shouldn't do.

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Looks like you've got quite the project ahead of you!
It'll keep you off drugs :)

wa-chiss
Posts: 2569
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Car: 1990 Nissan S13 H/C KA24E
2005 Toyota Sequoia
1976 Honda CB750F Super Sport
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BTW, what's with that intake manifold? Not dissing it, I'd just like to see a better picture of it. Looks interesting.

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:32 am
Looks like you've got quite the project ahead of you!
It'll keep you off drugs :)
Oh yeah, not gonna have any time or money left for drugs with this thing. :dblthumb:

wa-chiss wrote: Welcome aboard. Don't listen to haters. It's your car and your money. Do with it what you want. It's nobody's right to tell you what you should/shouldn't do.
wa-chiss wrote: BTW, what's with that intake manifold? Not dissing it, I'd just like to see a better picture of it. Looks interesting.
Thanks man. Also, no idea what's up with the intake now that I've done some looking around... I can't find one that look like it anywhere. I had the list of parts installed by the previous owner, but I seem to have deleted it :facepalm: I'll try to snap some better pics of it this weekend, maybe someone on the forums will recognize it

Blaqkfox
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:34 pm
Car: 1992 s13 240sx coupe

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looks like a pretty good project all around! im rewiring my entire coupe from scratch to be a daily/weekend racer right now as well, if you need help lmk. for someone who claims to have no engine experience it seems like your diving right in just fine.

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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Blaqkfox wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:29 am
looks like a pretty good project all around! im rewiring my entire coupe from scratch to be a daily/weekend racer right now as well, if you need help lmk. for someone who claims to have no engine experience it seems like your diving right in just fine.
I'll definitely be hitting you up about the wiring harness :bigthumb: and hey - so far it's just been removing lots of bolts. We'll see how much I struggle trying to put it back together :ohno:

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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Also, here are some more pics of the intake mani. No idea who made it, if anyone knows lemme know :confused: :confused:

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Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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Guys over at SAU confirmed that it's a custom intake mani ... not sure how I feel about that, but the welds on it look good at least..


Also, got myself an OEM GTS-T crankshaft from Japan for under $200 :woot: Decided to pick that one up now, rather than waiting to see if it's possible to hone mine and source oversized bearings. Got it thru JDM Buyer, highly recommend them. They took the time to help me with the purchase, and will be combining shipping with any other parts I order before the container leaves Japan. :dblthumb:

I told myself no more engine parts until I took the block to a machine shop to get it inspected.. oops. :rotfl

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Yeah that manifold looks pretty darn custom. I wonder why they did that.

wa-chiss
Posts: 2569
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:23 pm
Car: 1990 Nissan S13 H/C KA24E
2005 Toyota Sequoia
1976 Honda CB750F Super Sport
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I bet they made that manifold to keep the cold side from going over the engine.

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float_6969
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Subbin'

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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wa-chiss wrote: I bet they made that manifold to keep the cold side from going over the <a class="vglnk" title="Link added by VigLink" target="_blank" href="http://rover.ebay.com/rover/13/0/19/Dea ... 33-1665947" rel="nofollow"><span>engine</span></a>.
PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:29 am
Yeah that manifold looks pretty darn custom. I wonder why they did that.
My best guess would be that they didn't want to pay the $1000 for a name brand front-facing intake, so they made this thing ... :rolleyes:

float_6969 wrote:Subbin'
:cool:
Not gonna lie, it's quite cool to me that people are taking interest in this.


Anyways, I'm terrible at taking pictures, but I finally finished disassembling all the little pieces of the engine today .. it's been super hot, so I've been lazy. Got everything but the crank out - the darn crank gear (sprocket might be the right word?) behind the pulley ain't going anywhere, and I don't want to try to chisel it off myself. I don't have a torch, and WD40 did zilch so now it's the machine shop's problem :chuckle:

Finally got ahold of a couple of machine shops that my coworkers recommended, gonna talk to the machinists that will be working on the block and hopefully take it over soon!

wa-chiss
Posts: 2569
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:23 pm
Car: 1990 Nissan S13 H/C KA24E
2005 Toyota Sequoia
1976 Honda CB750F Super Sport
Location: San Angelo, TX

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That's what I was saying. Budget build, no monies for Greddy.

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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The block is at the machine shop, now I'm nervously waiting to see what/if they find anything wrong with it :ohno: :ohno:
Not to mention, my idiot self forgot to bring them my conrods, so yay for another 60-mile round trip ... sigh.

Finally have some time off between my internships, so hopefully I'll get somewhere with the interior this week. Probably still a bit too hot for dry ice-ing the sound deadener off, but we'll see.

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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wa-chiss wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:22 pm
That's what I was saying. Budget build, no monies for Greddy.

I can't say I blame 'em, no way could I justify coughing up that kind of cash for an intake mani right now lol. MacGyvering is the way to go ...... sometimes :rotflmao

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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Got some updates from the machine shop:
The crank has a hairline fracture in journal #4 ... not surprised at all. There is a small scratch in cylinder #4 as well, which will hopefully be honed out - if not, it'll be sleeved. Shop owner offered to bore the block for a great price after I explained that I'm a college kid, but man I can't justify spending a grand on pistons right now. :frown: So, looks like it's down to waiting for the new crank to come in from Japan, supposedly mid-late October. The shop's gonna mic it for me, and if all is well, I'll be assembling the block in November.

Haven't decided what I want to do about the head. Can't decide if I want to try to find an OEM exhaust cam, or drop another $500 for the Tomei poncams. Probably shouldn't spend the money, but man is it tempting. Decisions, decisions...



Also, despite swearing that I was going to keep everything close to stock and get it up and running ...... this showed up:
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Holset HX35/40 hybrid, used housing but brand new turbine/compressor wheels and cartridge. Wastegate is welded shut, so external wategate it'll be. I was originally looking to get an HX35, but this one popped up at an unbeatable price soooo I got it. :chuckle:

We'll see how horrible the lag is ... it's got the 12cm^2 twin scroll turbine housing, which will help *if* I can somehow source a reasonably-priced twin scroll manifold. Sure as hell don't have the $$$ to buy a nice one unfortunately. If not, there's always the BEP 0.55 A/R housing that the DSM guys use.

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float_6969
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Id keep the stock cams and put the money towards a twin scroll manifold. Looks good though man!

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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float_6969 wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:01 pm
Id keep the stock cams and put the money towards a twin scroll manifold. Looks good though man!
Thanks! Also, very good idea ... not sure how that didn't occur to me... :blush:

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breadbox
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Stock rb20 cams are good. That’s a sweet intake. I loved my rb20 I never hit my redline (8300) got valve float at 7600. The motor is tough. I like the high revs.

Oh and ls coils, do that. Worth it.

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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breadbox wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:44 pm
Stock rb20 cams are good. That’s a sweet intake. I loved my rb20 I never hit my redline (8300) got valve float at 7600. The motor is tough. I like the high revs.

Oh and ls coils, do that. Worth it.
I'm hoping to set my redline to 8000, that makes me slightly nervous that you had valve float at 7600. Ah well, I guess we'll see what happens :ohno:


I ended up getting Tomei Procams (lash type), 260 deg / 8.8mm lift, on a nice black friday discount. I don't think the crack in my EX camshaft is fixable (doesn't sit in the head nice and one of the mounting holes is essentially cracked off, will post pics later) and I haven't been able to find anything locally. Figured I might as well suck it up and spend the extra $200 on Tomei cams instead of crossing my fingers that a used set from Japan would be OK. Guess I can try to sell the IN cam since it's fine. :gotme

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breadbox
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8k should be safe. just have stiffer than stock springs. let the tune limit the rest.

I could have built that head and gone rb25 turbo and left it at 13psi and had a great daily. but my friend has it now and is just straightening out power steering and a/c and make it a great car for year round. then will push the motor later.

I am trying to get shizz together to start building an rb24, while stll making headway on my rolla.

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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breadbox wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:31 pm
8k should be safe. just have stiffer than stock springs. let the tune limit the rest.

I could have built that head and gone rb25 turbo and left it at 13psi and had a great daily. but my friend has it now and is just straightening out power steering and a/c and make it a great car for year round. then will push the motor later.

I am trying to get shizz together to start building an rb24, while stll making headway on my rolla.
Got some Tomei springs to go with the cams, since they're SO much cheaper than the supertech springs. We'll see how the rest of the stock valvetrain handles it :chuckle:

Good on your friend for sorting out the issues before diving into the motor. Sometimes I wish I bought a car with a running engine so I could sort the suspension out first, but it looks like I'm just going to build the car backwards. :gotme I'd like to eventually bore the 20 or just build an RB30. But that's a loong ways away for me. An RB24 will be a fun little motor.

Dbarry
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Car: Nissan 240SX

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That's one interesting project. We are looking at a 1994 240SX as next project.

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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Dbarry wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:28 am
That's one interesting project. We are looking at a 1994 240SX as next project.
That should be fun! Try not to get as big a crap pile as I did lol.


So, as far as updates (or lack thereof) go ...
I should FINALLY have the engine back later this week. Everything checked out good including the crank from Japan, so I have std bearings and piston rings on their way :biggrin: Somehow it was cheaper to ship Hastings rings all the way from Australia than to buy them directly in the states. Yay currency conversion rates I guess?

Once those get here I should have almost everything I need to finish putting the engine together. I just need to find a welder to fab up an exhaust mani for that twin scroll goodness, a pile of hoses, and piston circlips. Probably going to invest in some LS coil packs too.

I need to find a different machine shop to put the crank collar on. Current shop outsources all crank work, and the place they send stuff to refuses to modify my crank cause ooh scary its from Japan. :facepalm: Oh, and I need to settle on an ECU. I guess I'm not that close after all :frown:

As far as engine goodies go, I decided to go with 550cc Deatschwerks injectors. I also ended up going with an external head drain instead of restrictors since this won't be a dedicated track car. Went with a kit from Franklin Eng in NZ. Going to be using OEM gasket kit .. decided it wasn't worth it for Cometic since everyone on SAU runs 20+ psi thru an oem headgasket.

Here's some stock images of the head drain:
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Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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Finally got my engine back from the machine shop. :biggrin: Head is completely assembled with the Tomei cams & springs, and I'm putting the bottom end together myself.

Block, pistons & rods all went thru the works, crank from Japan checked out good so it was also cleaned up & polished. My machinist was even nice enough to deliver the block to me free of charge because of how long everything took :woot:

No pics of the head cause it's bagged up for now, but here's the block. Needs to be painted, but of course the weather took a dump this week so it'll have to wait. Checked ring gaps and they were all good, next up is bearings. Yay plastigauge

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float_6969
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Pics don't work :/

Mitec
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Car: RB20 S13 hatch
Location: Upstate SC

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float_6969 wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:47 am
Pics don't work :/
Rats, they worked in the preview. Time to try another image hosting site


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Checking ring gap
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float_6969
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There ya go, there work now. Thanks for the update! Looking good man!

Dev894
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:44 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX

1990 Nissan 240SX RB20

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hey man im curious, I can turn my exhaust cam by hand on my rebuilt RB20DET but I can barely get the intake to move, is this normal or is there something wrong?


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