400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power!

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hugogos22
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Re: (idahotuner)

Postby hugogos22 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:46 pm

Hey codyace thanks how much was your oil relacation and how much total oil can you hold now ? I only do roll racing would i need a oil cooler will i need it for what i do ? Hey thanks again for the help.


codyace
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Postby codyace » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:07 pm

If you're just street racing, I wouldn't be to concerned with anything more than a Greddy pan for the extra capacity.

As far as cost, I'm not sure...I got the filter bracket thing from Summitt, and got the rest of the hydraulics etc etc from my local truck part supply store.

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hugogos22
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Re: (codyace)

Postby hugogos22 » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:12 pm

Coolbeans how has you bottom end held up so far at this horse power level.

codyace
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Postby codyace » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:58 am

3 years later, no issues

Kalypso
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Re: (codyace)

Postby Kalypso » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:01 pm

codyace wrote:3 years later, no issues
wow... thats encouraging.

the SR truly is a great motor

DrifterProdigy85
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Postby DrifterProdigy85 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:39 am

Yea its a great motor. Just dont over rev it on stock valve springs. Otherwise this will happen. haha.


codyace
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Re: (DrifterProdigy85)

Postby codyace » Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:52 am

DrifterProdigy85 wrote:Yea its a great motor. Just dont over rev it on stock valve springs. Otherwise this will happen. haha.
The motor is great. You just don't know how to drive

(HUGE SARCASM)

That's one of the better over rev's I've seen. Well done!

Kalypso
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Re: (codyace)

Postby Kalypso » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:11 pm

can someone explain, what are we looking at

( I'd rather ask, then pretend I know whats going on )

datsun2401972
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Re: (Kalypso123)

Postby datsun2401972 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:42 pm

Over revved, causing a valve to float long enough to meet the piston.

Take into consideration that the engine was probably well over 7000rpm. And any ONE of those pistons hits top dead center how many times a second at 7000rpm?(116.7rps) Pretty scary.

I've got a 91 talon awd that looks similar, but it broke a timing belt at low rpm. Every single valve met every piston, total scrap.

Upon appearance, it looks like some of that valvetrain is still useable.

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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power! (codyace)

Postby Kalypso » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:20 pm

dig it

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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power! (Kalypso123)

Postby Kalypso » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:01 pm

having an exhaust manifold of equal length... is less important then Heat retention on a turbo charged engine, correct?

http://www.majorleagueduning.c...t.htm

EDIT:: during my travels this fabricator said...

The thing with LOG manifolds such as a 3 piece manifold is that they create excessive pressure, what I am trying to do get rid of the whole pressure (PSI) mentality and get going on a flow mentality. My experience with diesels comes from vw and mercedes diesels, I found that increasing flow, while decreasing pressure, gives more power, better fuel economy, lower egt's, lower peak cylinder pressures, etc.



so the war continues


Modified by Kalypso123 at 7:25 AM 7/31/2008

datsun2401972
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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power! (Kalypso123)

Postby datsun2401972 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:46 pm



That manifold makes me wanna build up my l28t sitting in my crapper box 82 280zx turbo 2+2 automatic.

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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power! (datsun2401972)

Postby Kalypso » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:17 am

you should, if I could make one i'd start today

bansheeracer2003
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Re: (plainzwalker)

Postby bansheeracer2003 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:14 pm

im prob going to do a build like this when i got the money!has anyone herd on silverminemotors.com u should go take a look!

-Ron

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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power! (Kalypso)

Postby codyace » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:58 am

It's a delicate balance for sure. I mean there is a certain point where a small/short runner manifold will certainly choke and engine, as well as create (as stated) a huge difference in backpressure ratio on the motor...this will damage the motor for sure!

However you need to look at the smaller .64 t28 housing's flow ability. Certainly could the exhaust travel to the turbo more efficently with tubular? Yes...however you're still necking it down to a small housing, that won't be able to use the manifolds advantages...

Now enter my manifold, which flows a perfect amount for the turbine housing, and along with being extrude honed, helps increase velocity...at the same time, the coating also helps contain heat energy...this is big WIN for turboc cars and response junkies, as it helps spool the turbo faster. Are there downfalls to this setup? Yes...I'm sure the back pressure ratio is almost unsafe on the top end, but then again I'm not spinning to 24-26 psi either because of that (only 20). YOu also fight compressor/turbine efficiency issues in general up there, so it works out in the end.
Kalypso wrote:having an exhaust manifold of equal length... is less important then Heat retention on a turbo charged engine, correct?

http://www.majorleagueduning.c...t.htm

EDIT:: during my travels this fabricator said...

The thing with LOG manifolds such as a 3 piece manifold is that they create excessive pressure, what I am trying to do get rid of the whole pressure (PSI) mentality and get going on a flow mentality. My experience with diesels comes from vw and mercedes diesels, I found that increasing flow, while decreasing pressure, gives more power, better fuel economy, lower egt's, lower peak cylinder pressures, etc.



so the war continues

Modified by Kalypso123 at 7:25 AM 7/31/2008

Kalypso
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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power! (codyace)

Postby Kalypso » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:25 pm

Oh i get it. back pressure is the enemy to short mani's.

....it would be great to create an equation that measures and predicts the length of each runner.... based on how much back pressure that builds at the turbine housing.

but that's really complex... so many things to factor.

- like even the friction in the turbos bearing and how freely it spins and responds to exhaust gas. - the width of the flange.- how many cubic feet per minute of air that coming out the exhaust ports. - the a/r of the turbine housing.

engineering heavy calculations for sure.

* a good estimate would be that its not wise to use a log style manifold with a big gt45r turbo... the back pressure from that should force its way back in.

...cool.... 1 year later its still food for throught.

codyace
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Postby codyace » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:55 am

Oh wow I didn't even notice it said 2008!

Yikes! Sorry about the year bump!

Well, to continue with the car:

Car still runs awesome, no issues, nothing exciting. I will be changing my power steering setup soon though :D

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robbie2009
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Postby robbie2009 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:12 am

Nice setup cody, I plan on doing a similar setup with my sr when I get it this winter. So would bc 264/264 cams be way similar to the 260 s3 jwt cams? And with springs, cams, and RAS, could I rev reliable to 7.5k-8k?

devlmaycry
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Re: (codyace)

Postby devlmaycry » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:49 pm

Sweet, glad I'm not the only one reading old threads! Still a lot of good info for guys like me looking for good build info and solid numbers.

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Re: (devlmaycry)

Postby shift_SRDETuser » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:37 pm

I just reread through this thread and would agree the sr20det is a great engine. Could you keep vtc above 400whp levels. I bought idaho's gt2871r and have been running around 340 whp for about 8 months now. So far the engine has done well. I heard 400whp was pushing the envelope of what the stock engine can hold so I just have never wanted to try and tune it there. What kinda knock counts do you get once you get the revs up?

I am running 17lbs and my tuner really told me that is where it should be at. I run waste gate at low boost or 8 lbs or so and it gets good mpg but when in boost I am lucky to see 18mpg.....

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Jah1mon
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Re: (codyace)

Postby Jah1mon » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:28 am

I think alot more people will be sticking with their stock manifolds because of you codyace.

I'm betting the price to extrude hone, and coat the manifold costs less than some of the higher quality stainless manifolds?

I also notice you're not too far from my area.

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Re: (shift_SRDETuser)

Postby idahotuner » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:48 am

shift_SRDETuser wrote:I just reread through this thread and would agree the sr20det is a great engine. Could you keep vtc above 400whp levels. I bought idaho's gt2871r and have been running around 340 whp for about 8 months now. So far the engine has done well. I heard 400whp was pushing the envelope of what the stock engine can hold so I just have never wanted to try and tune it there. What kinda knock counts do you get once you get the revs up?

I am running 17lbs and my tuner really told me that is where it should be at. I run waste gate at low boost or 8 lbs or so and it gets good mpg but when in boost I am lucky to see 18mpg.....
glad to hear the turbo is working good for you. i really think 17psi was the sweet spot on that turbo. with my set up it was about 370 at that spot. but i had cams and stuff thati think it might have flowed a little better

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Re: (idahotuner)

Postby drb930 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:55 am

Too bad no one makes a manifold like that for the KA's.Would you still pick the .64 over the .86 for a KA considering the difference in displacement?

Thanks,Dave

Salzano12389
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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power!

Postby Salzano12389 » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:33 am

After reading through a few times I couldnt find my answers so heres a few questions..

I will be running this exact setup except with a z32 MAF is that okay? and will JWT Tune it?

Also was wondering on the thickness of the apexi headgasket you were running I was thinking 1.1mm

I was unsure of doing the extrude and hone but still might it seemed cheap not sure if i was looking at the right things on the page but it said like $200 or something like that? for that price ill go ahead and do it just wondering how much of a difference would i lose without it?

I will also be running a full 3"inch exhause straight pipe no cats or mufflers just straight pipe :) any input?

The only additional cooling i have is my 2 fans + a koyo rad is that enough? it will be a DD full boost all the time.. most likely maybe a 14 psi setting.. btw how much do you run 18psi?

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PyR0NiAk
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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power!

Postby PyR0NiAk » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:51 am

Salzano12389 wrote: I will be running this exact setup except with a z32 MAF is that okay? and will JWT Tune it?
Yes, and yes.
Salzano12389 wrote:Also was wondering on the thickness of the apexi headgasket you were running I was thinking 1.1mm
Depends on how much the machine shop takes off your head and block when they deck them.
I was unsure of doing the extrude and hone but still might it seemed cheap not sure if i was looking at the right things on the page but it said like $200 or something like that? for that price ill go ahead and do it just wondering how much of a difference would i lose without it?
I remember looking at the prices when I was in Iraq. I want to say it was more than that. Don't forget, he didn't just extrude hone the turbo housing. He also did the exhaust mani.
Salzano12389 wrote:I will also be running a full 3"inch exhause straight pipe no cats or mufflers just straight pipe :) any input?
Straight pipe will be loud, but won't cause any problems. The turbo will stand out a LOT in the exhaust note.
Salzano12389 wrote:The only additional cooling i have is my 2 fans + a koyo rad is that enough?
That cooling setup is fine. If you want to be extra safe, get a mishimoto or nismo thermostat.

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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power!

Postby Salzano12389 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:04 pm

Im not doing the HG myself so i was purchasing that and cams and sending it off so im unsure of what size to get and what compression would be and what it should be.

I was only going to do my exhaust mani not the turbo and think it was around 200 not sure though.

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PyR0NiAk
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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power!

Postby PyR0NiAk » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:58 am

Stock compression is 8.5:1 You can find this in the FAQ. Stock HG size is 1.01mm I'm using a 1.1mm Cosworth HG on my SR, but they also did very minimal shaving.

Salzano12389
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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power!

Postby Salzano12389 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:30 am

What did your compression turn out to be with a 1.1? i think im gonna go with a 1.2mm Apexi HG.

What about blow off valves i have a HKS super seq. from my last s13.. s14 now :) but when i used to rev out first gear then let it drop the car would stall i hear this is from non recirc bov's so i was gonna go with the greddy RS recirc valve..

Im trying to keep everything kind of alike as far as parts companies go.

Heres my setup

Greddy intake manifold, fuel rail and 660cc or 650 not sure what they were, top feed injectors
GT2871r
Exhaust mani extrude hone and swain greddy turbo elbow not sure what downpipe yet and full 3inch straight pipe
Z32 Maf + JWT Tune and JWT s3 cams with 1.2mm apexi HG

Salzano12389
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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power!

Postby Salzano12389 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:30 am

Also what do you think about a tial 41mm wastegate wasnt sure if i saw talk about whether the internal gate handles well on these turbos or not i read on a few sites they dont but not sure still.

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PyR0NiAk
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Re: 400 whp Stock block Redtop - GT2871r .64 power!

Postby PyR0NiAk » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:05 pm

As long as you're not running ridiculous boost levels, the internal waste gate will do fine. Obviously, an external is a better option, but also more expensive. Your HKS SSQV is the most popular choice for the SRs... They also make a recirc fitting for it. It's like $20 on 240sxmotoring.com (They're a NICO sponsor.) Not sure what my compression is, but considering they removed a total of .004 inches, that's like .1mm... I went up .09 in headgasket size from the stock one, so theoretically my compression should be REALLY close to stock...


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