wow this has turned into a hell of a thread I hope that a lot of people take an interest in this and learn the proper way to build an engine

fullmetal wrote:wow this has turned into a hell of a thread I hope that a lot of people take an interest in this and learn the proper way to build an engine

haha, thanks man.

by all means, my build shouldn't be taken as 'the only way' to do a car, but in my opinion only, I think it's probably the most fun setup you could have. Fast on the roadcourse, mid 11 second power, and damn fun on the street. No waiting or anything...just go baby go!

codyace wrote:I think it's probably the most fun setup you could have. Fast on the roadcourse, mid 11 second power, and damn fun on the street. No waiting or anything...just go baby go!

i built my for this same reason. fun on the street quick and responsive.

idahotuner wrote:
i built my for this same reason. fun on the street quick and responsive.

Word

I mean, don't get me wrong, a big honkin turbo is fun too, but it's certainly not my style

But whne you up to a larger turbo and make more power it justs means more things will go wrong most likely. and it costs alot more. to build car witha huge turbo and really make it work.

idahotuner wrote:But whne you up to a larger turbo and make more power it justs means more things will go wrong most likely. and it costs alot more. to build car witha huge turbo and really make it work.

Very true.

I'm a firm beleiver that if you want 500 hp in an S chassis, that a V8 swap is the best way to go heheh.

Hey codyace Im planning on puttting bc stage 2 cams and their retainers and springs. Am I going to gain any more by just having Jim wolf s3 cams like you recomend.

and if I did get JWT s3 cams without springs and retainers It wouldn't be safe to hit high rpms right?

Id like 360-400hp

did u swain coat the turbine and elbow as well? Also do u have a reading of the temp of the manifold after driving for a bit.

two40splease wrote:Hey codyace Im planning on puttting bc stage 2 cams and their retainers and springs. Am I going to gain any more by just having Jim wolf s3 cams like you recomend.

BC stuff is junk. You'll see that of all the higher HP cars per particular setups all run JWT cams (or HKS Step II's). By the time you buy all of the BC sillyness, get them dialed in and installed, and then get the springs and retainers, you could have eaisly got JWT S3's, plopped them in, and been doing big smokey burnouts.

With that said, scour http://www.sr20forum.com and http://www.sr20-forum.com for used ones from Sentra guys. The FWD uses the same cams as the RWD (aside from late model b15/p11 roller rocker engines)...

two40splease wrote:and if I did get JWT s3 cams without springs and retainers It wouldn't be safe to hit high rpms right?

JWT S3 and S4 Cams and setups are safe for 7850 rpms on a stock valvetrain.

Emperor_Tha wrote:did u swain coat the turbine and elbow as well? Also do u have a reading of the temp of the manifold after driving for a bit.

I actually only swained the manifold. I wasn't sure about swain coating the turbine housing, as we think that the extrude plus swain on them causes premature cracking around wastegate flapper area. I figured if that was the case, Iwasn't going to spend it on the o2 housing either.

With that said, it may be completly safe, as our assumptions are just that...assumptions (*** u me deal)

As far as temps, I have no clue and never have. I can say that I can come off track after a session and actually check oil and shiz without burning my fingers off on the manifold. Don't get me wrong, it's still hot, but man does it make a difference.

tripleJs15 wrote:The pop charger is huge, and some pics will be great, thanks.

This is what I would do. Theoretically you should be good if you remove the head properly. Also I would NEVER EVER use roloc disks. Just get gasket remover spray, itll take off all the old material with that and a gasket scraper, not razor blades. Then after all thats done, just check it with a straight edge, most of the time you will be fine, even if the motor was "warmed up" past the acceptable temperatures. Most honda builds never need the deck surface resurfaced, and IMO they would need it more with floating cylinders.

All in all, you should be fine without a resurface if the deck is clean and straight.

Now to OP, your build looks awesome, I love to see people do setups where everything wok togther so perfectly, +1 for using stock cast manifold as well, this should be a pretty sleeper setup, and a hella of alota fun on the street!

ryan15 wrote:This is what I would do. Theoretically you should be good if you remove the head properly.

OEM composite gaskets area always an issue (through removal), and you also fight the actual seal not being true enough for a metal headgasket. The one advantage of the composite gasket is that it forms to the head/block, including those surface areas less than optimal (where the metal gasket does not).

ryan15 wrote:Also I would NEVER EVER use roloc disks. Just get gasket remover spray, itll take off all the old material with that and a gasket scraper, not razor blades.

Roloc discs are designed to clean and or remove surface imperfections from aluminum, or steel, or any metal surfaces, without actually removing the metal itself. They work extremely well for most builds not utilzing a MLS headgasket, that are not known to have overheated.

ryan15 wrote:Then after all thats done, just check it with a straight edge, most of the time you will be fine, even if the motor was "warmed up" past the acceptable temperatures.

While the SR may not be as prone to change as the KA in terms of getting hot and warping, it still can happen. To ensure the pefect seal, a deck is needed with the MLS gaskets. Every manufacturer of them suggests this as well.

If you're really involved with ahome style steup, you could use roloc, and then take a small 2x4, wrap 200 grit or similar around it, and go across the surfaces like you are sanding it, but in a cross hatched pattern. This can also work in situations where you really can't get it decked or similar.

Again, you can get a head and block decked for 50-100 bucks. Why risk?

ryan15 wrote:Most honda builds never need the deck surface resurfaced, and IMO they would need it more with floating cylinders.

Every engine is different. Guys that have issues with block/cylinder spacers not working or preventing seal need to get their stuff decked everytime.

ryan15 wrote:Now to OP, your build looks awesome, I love to see people do setups where everything wok togther so perfectly, +1 for using stock cast manifold as well, this should be a pretty sleeper setup, and a hella of alota fun on the street!

It runs dead strong, and is super quick. Can't go wrong with 400+whp and 4.60 gears

I broke down and pulled the whole engine and doing bottom and top end sorta following the enthalpy engine build, using all tomei and running MAP standalone. So we'll see how it goes.

Also did some cosmetic upgrades:

Caliper looks good...Your knowlege pwns me, excuse my ignorance, I am new too sr20`s, and im not going to lie, most of the stuff I brought up is typical backyard mechanic knowledge. Also being said, when I get down and dirty with my motor I will most likey use, oem composite HG with arp head studs, I think of it as a good "fuse" for detonation, of course before doing so I would do the proper research, the only engines I would put a metal HG on would be all aluminum.

All in all, you are right, many people usually can get away with a good clean-up of the blocks deck, tripple check with a straight edge, and copper spray, but yes there are BETTER ways to do it. I have read enough horror stories on this forum about MHG`s not sealing correctly when skipping the proper steps.

Also alogn with the roloc disks, im not sure what material or grit you would use for "clean up", but when I hear roloc discs what comes to mind is a rough grit 2" disk used to take down paint fast to apply body filler.

Ryan

all that on stock bottom end very impressive

ryan15 wrote:knowledge. Also being said, when I get down and dirty with my motor I will most likey use, oem composite HG with arp head studs, I think of it as a good "fuse" for detonation, of course before doing so I would do the proper research, the only engines I would put a metal HG on would be all aluminum.

With SR20 motors, the stock composite style gaskets are usually good for 300-350 at most. Most guys simply upgrade to MLS gaskets for their superior sealing qualities and detonation resistance. In all honesty, the Cosworth MLS gasket costs equal the stock one, so it is really the obvious choice when it comes to rebuilds in this day and age.

ryan15 wrote:All in all, you are right, many people usually can get away with a good clean-up of the blocks deck, tripple check with a straight edge, and copper spray,

Copper spray and MLS = NO NO. The MLS gaskets come with a coating on them that works to help enduce better seal. Copper spray should be left for composite style gaskets.

ryan15 wrote:but yes there are BETTER ways to do it. I have read enough horror stories on this forum about MHG`s not sealing correctly when skipping the proper steps.

Exactly.That's why I stress the deck job, espcially for the cost of it.

ryan15 wrote:Also alogn with the roloc disks, im not sure what material or grit you would use for "clean up", but when I hear roloc discs what comes to mind is a rough grit 2" disk used to take down paint fast to apply body filler.

There is an entire lineup of Roloc disc products, sizes, and strengths. I've never used an agressive one, only the stuff for gasket removal.

The color reminds me of a subaru caliper

it's a s15 spec r caliper, basically the same as the z32

sick car man

hey codyace, what are your takes on the full race bottom mount manifold? and eventually mated to a 2871r .64 (eventually speaking not getting this anytime soon)

Look into the tomei manifold, supposed to give you the same results or better than stock or extruded stock. It was discussed somewhere in this thread or maybe another on Nico.

Read:http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003....html

Watch:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated

240sxHitman wrote:hey codyace, what are your takes on the full race bottom mount manifold? and eventually mated to a 2871r .64 (eventually speaking not getting this anytime soon)

While I can't say for sure dyno wise, I can say this:

When that manifold ws in the works/coming out, I personally emailed Geoff about doing a dyno comparison of his manifold verus min, at Evans Tuning (his tuner of choice). He knew my setup (swain and extruded)

Everything was going smooth, we were setting up dates/times etc etc, and then all of a sudden he backed out, saying he would want a tunable EMS on my car, to make the needed changes per manifold. I explained to him that the majority of SR20 guys run stock or ROM tuned ECU's, and he still wouldn't do it without a standalone of sorts.

To me, I take that as him essentially saying 'it won't make more power', and was going to rely on tuning to make up the difference. To me that was answer enough.

Now I don't want to get into a pissing match, as his stuff is nice, but I'm even more confident in mysetup because of that. Cast is stronger, it helps retain heat (quicker spool), and it's facotry divided....you can't go wrong with any of that!

tripleJs15 wrote:Look into the tomei manifold, supposed to give you the same results or better than stock or extruded stock. It was discussed somewhere in this thread or maybe another on Nico.

I don't read into manufacturers claims at all. It's alread been proven that the Tomei manifolds crack, and that they don't signifigantly change the powerband any different than the 125 Megan Racing manifolds. To me it's just for those that want to buy a name.

With that also said, those that have run tubular manifolds NEVER create the grunt/torque the stock manifold exhibits. For a reponse oriented car, the last thing I want is loss of torque.

codyace wrote:
While I can't say for sure dyno wise, I can say this:

When that manifold ws in the works/coming out, I personally emailed Geoff about doing a dyno comparison of his manifold verus min, at Evans Tuning (his tuner of choice). He knew my setup (swain and extruded)

Everything was going smooth, we were setting up dates/times etc etc, and then all of a sudden he backed out, saying he would want a tunable EMS on my car, to make the needed changes per manifold. I explained to him that the majority of SR20 guys run stock or ROM tuned ECU's, and he still wouldn't do it without a standalone of sorts.

To me, I take that as him essentially saying 'it won't make more power', and was going to rely on tuning to make up the difference. To me that was answer enough.

Now I don't want to get into a pissing match, as his stuff is nice, but I'm even more confident in mysetup because of that. Cast is stronger, it helps retain heat (quicker spool), and it's facotry divided....you can't go wrong with any of that!

Thanks for the insight. I'll roll with the stockie and get it extrude honed when im able to.

one my quick ?, is that locking tab that goes on the manifold and turbo needed? only reason i ask because mine didnt have one

240sxHitman wrote:Thanks for the insight. I'll roll with the stockie and get it extrude honed when im able to.

Extrude and Swain will cost less than the Tomei to boot!

Quote »one my quick ?, is that locking tab that goes on the manifold and turbo needed? only reason i ask because mine didnt have one[/quote]Needed? no

Suggested? Certainly

You can get them at any Nissan dealer as well. They are also on a z32 turbo. Cheap assurance, along with locking nuts.

since my car isn't finished as yet I can't throw any numbers out, as far as the difference between megan and the tomei there's a huge difference. From the quality of the welds, to the weight, even the steel looks like a better quality. Flanges are thicker. All around it seems much better quality than megan or ssauto... but to each his own.

tripleJs15 wrote:since my car isn't finished as yet I can't throw any numbers out, as far as the difference between megan and the tomei there's a huge difference. From the quality of the welds, to the weight, even the steel looks like a better quality. Flanges are thicker. All around it seems much better quality than megan or ssauto... but to each his own.

Nicer looking welds <> better welds

Nicer looking steel <> better steel

Weight <> quality

Both are proven to crack. To me, if you're diehard and set on running a crappy tubular manifold, by all means get what you want. I'd say get the 125 dollar one.

If you want the best (and not the most expensive) t2 setup, get your stock extrude honed and swain coated like mine. IT won't crack, and it will work awesome.

Again, I think tubular on a t2 (this side of a race car) is a waste of time. Why loose a torque benefit?

Should be putting back the car together in the next few weeks, we'll see how it goes.

But some good info:

http://www.jdm-option.com/eng/....html
Modified by tripleJs15 at 8:32 AM 4/23/2008

tripleJs15 wrote:Should be putting back the car together in the next few weeks, we'll see how it goes.

Sounds good, keep us posted!

And that 'sheet' you posted isn't for SRs of normal sense.

Again, there hasn't been a setup so far that I've ever seen online, of a tubular manifold creating more low and and torque than the stocker.

I have another question for ya but more to the tuning side.

The ecu I got from JRE was I guess you can say tuned or modified by mine's, would that affect my ecu from getting tuned by enthalpy/JWT when I finally do upgrade to bigger injectors, turbo...etc?

240sxHitman wrote:I have another question for ya but more to the tuning side.

The ecu I got from JRE was I guess you can say tuned or modified by mine's, would that affect my ecu from getting tuned by enthalpy/JWT when I finally do upgrade to bigger injectors, turbo...etc?

While I don't know for sure, I can think of 2 possible solutions

1 The ECU is set, and you'll need to sell it.

2 The board is socketed like a JWT/Enthalpy one, and just needs a retuned rom chip.