350z coil pack..WTH!?

Nissan 350z / Nissan 370z technical discussion forum: Maintenance, performance, installations, modifications, how-to's and troubleshooting.
Evilevo8
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350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:07 am

Ok folks I am in need of some SERIOUS help. I'm trying to figure out whats my issue with my wife's 350Z. The car has always had it s little quirks/gremlins and I'm FINALLY to my last real issue and I can't figure it out. All other 350Z forums are USELESS.. either they say "Take it to the dealer" or the one's having the same issue NEVER state what the ending result/fix was.. :tisk:

So here are the important parts on the car:
Fully built bottom end: Crower rods/CP pistons 8.5:1 compression
ported polished heads with ferrea springs/retainers
Jim Wolf Stage 1 Turbo cams
Turbonetics 60-1 single turbo (I know I know.. I'm fabbing up a way to cut 4 feet of piping/bends)
1000cc injectors ( I know to big for such small turbo. Is going to be swapped for my TO4Z/37R off my Evo soon..planning ahead)
Kinetix intake manifold ( I know..part of fabbing plan to replace with direct/shorter routing to prevent lean condition on #6)
Osiris tuning by HP Logic

Now here is what my issue is:
Image

Each coil has done this in the EXACT same location on the coil. :wtf2:

Here is how this came about. I drove the car down to get tuned and below are videos. Tuner was very attentive and spent time asking me detailed questions about whats in the car and got it running on stock ECU 1st crank. Car runs AWESOME and makes good power.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeXSLS_xuy0[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXZJ54aV_mA[/youtube]

Drove the car home with AC on whole way with 0 issues. Wife drove it a couple days later down for work to Tampa. Now this is where issue happened. She called stating felt running rough and smelled raw fuel. I had recently picked up 6 coil packs an AC condenser and alternator with less than 15k on them for $150 from a friend. Glad I did that now.
Drove down swapped ALL coil packs and put in new plugs as well. Car fired up perfect no issues. Scanned codes and found misfire code and cylinder code for #3.
I found the coil pack for #3 and a bubble was on it just like in the above picture. :gotme
So car ran fine so headed home. Wife calls next day.. she is stuck in Orlando, car running even rougher. Drive down that evening and found #2 and #4 were cause of problem. Pulled plugs and let them air out for the night with excess fuel. Cleared codes and drove the next day myself. No issues no check engine light until I got just outside Daytona.. I had turned the AC on prior 10 minutes and then felt stutter/miss and check engine flashed..pulled over.. #1 was done. Let engine cool down..swapped coil and drove rest of way home with no issue.

Now I have checked the following:
1) Contacted tuner to see if dwell settings were changed in any way.. NO. Only fuel/timing/throttle response were touched.
2) Checked every DAMN ground in engine bay that associated with coils and went over all grounds period for engine and ECU. Didn't see any ground for ECU though.
3) Check voltage coming from alternator while running..everything normal
4) Checked wiring harness for any crimps/cuts/grounds.. nothing
5) Checked all fuses/relays and no issues there

So I'm at a complete loss and need help. This issue is only problem that car has that prevents it from driving like normal and so wife can enjoy it. Going to go and attempt trying it with it running idling and holding 3k rpms to see what voltage alternator pushes to see if over charging may be cause. At same time will run with AC to see if draw is possible problem.
If anyone can help me with this issue I will beyond be grateful and I will even go so far as paypal you $ for case of beer.

~Jon


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asoomal
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby asoomal » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:25 am

Seems like the extra current required to fire those coils under boost taking a toll on them. More compression causes higher resistance for the ignition system.

What kind of plugs and what gap?

Evilevo8
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:41 am

asoomal wrote:Seems like the extra current required to fire those coils under boost taking a toll on them. More compression causes higher resistance for the ignition system.

What kind of plugs and what gap?
Well the compression was dropped from stock to 8.5:1
The plugs I was advised to go with are NGK R - LFR6A-II
They are gapped at .026 gap.

Evilevo8
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:48 pm

Well I think I have finally figured out this electrical gremlin from hell!
So after going over all the grounds and everything I started reading about the electrical condenser that is inline with the wiring harness. I have read that if it fails outright the car will still turn over and run.. but eventually it will shut off. Now if its intermittent it MIGHT cause such an issue as the coil's frying. See below image
Image

NOW with that being said.. Apparently this little bugger is wrapped on its own on top of the already wrapped wiring harness so its like the OEM electrical tape was simply wrapped over the harness and then over the electrical condenser. Obviously I would have to cut the tape away to gain access to this to even begin to check it. THIS is where I got my surprise! As I lifted it and tilted it for better access to make the cut away to my surprise WATER came out the back end.. :wtf2:
I'm not electrical guru but DAMNED if that wouldn't cause some type of current fluctuation huh?
Image

And look at the connector as well. A crack and discoloration most likely from the water. Might have arced even. I'm beyond confused how even water can get in that location since its located over the #3 coil and its tucked back on the passenger side of the engine.. :confused:

Keep your fingers crossed for me as I will be taking it out and inspecting it and most likely replacing it.. God I hope this is it! :help:

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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby float_6969 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:22 pm

I hope you get it figured out, but it sounds like you've go it tracked down.

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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby 300ZXttZMAN » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:57 pm

I think you may have it figured out. GOOD LUCK!

*fingers crossed*

Beautiful Z btw and a great taste for mods. Welcome to NICO!

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Postby dasoupdude » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:32 am

Good ol' hp logic. I think I was there at the shop when this Z was on the rollers..

Electrical issues + me = no bueno

Good luck with it, and welcome!

Evilevo8
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:08 am

Well took it off and look what I found..

Image

Image

something looks strange huh?

New one on left..old one on right...hmmmm

Image

StockAsFuhZ33
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby StockAsFuhZ33 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:31 pm

thats def not right lol

Evilevo8
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:06 pm

Well good news is car runs and been driving it around and haven't fried a coil yet.. screwy thing is every once in awhile getting that damned P0300 multiple misfire code. Clear it and its gone for a good amount of time but comes back. Have gone through service manual and ruled out almost everything.. thinking might be a leak somewhere that is causing it.. just need to get air in her while off and try and track down if it is a leak. Always something...

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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby emhmotorsports » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:39 am

Sorry for being late to this page, but maybe a few things that can help you:

That 'condensor' is actually what we electrical engineers call a 'capacitor'. Its sole function is to minimize the electrical noise coming from the ignitions lines (think of a CB radio broadcasting). Many OEMs are using these things because the vehicle electical emissions (invisible waves in the air) are stricly controlled by the government, and so they must try crazy tricks like this to comply. Anyway, the fact that yours was so badly cooked is of some concern, I would keep an eye on the new one.

As someone mentioned, the blistering on the coil is due to them working harder than intended. A boosted engine requires more ignition energy to light the mixture than a non-boosted engine (due to higher cylinder pressures). If it is setting the misfire code, this means that it is detecting incomplete combustion (the spark plug does not have enough juice to light off the mixture). The factory ECU will try to adjust to the misfiring by increasing the dwell time. Normally, they are limited in how much they can boost the dwell time so that they cannot damage the coils, but if the ECU has been modified, this may have been disabled. I suspect the additional dwell time is overheating your coils. They are surprisingly delicate things on the VQ motor.

To truly solve the problem, I would try to find new ignition coils that have a higher energy rating. I believe the stock coils are around 38 milliJoules, you may want to go to a 50mJ coil or higher. I hope this helps!

Evilevo8
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:28 pm

emhmotorsports wrote:Sorry for being late to this page, but maybe a few things that can help you:

That 'condensor' is actually what we electrical engineers call a 'capacitor'. Its sole function is to minimize the electrical noise coming from the ignitions lines (think of a CB radio broadcasting). Many OEMs are using these things because the vehicle electical emissions (invisible waves in the air) are stricly controlled by the government, and so they must try crazy tricks like this to comply. Anyway, the fact that yours was so badly cooked is of some concern, I would keep an eye on the new one.

As someone mentioned, the blistering on the coil is due to them working harder than intended. A boosted engine requires more ignition energy to light the mixture than a non-boosted engine (due to higher cylinder pressures). If it is setting the misfire code, this means that it is detecting incomplete combustion (the spark plug does not have enough juice to light off the mixture). The factory ECU will try to adjust to the misfiring by increasing the dwell time. Normally, they are limited in how much they can boost the dwell time so that they cannot damage the coils, but if the ECU has been modified, this may have been disabled. I suspect the additional dwell time is overheating your coils. They are surprisingly delicate things on the VQ motor.

To truly solve the problem, I would try to find new ignition coils that have a higher energy rating. I believe the stock coils are around 38 milliJoules, you may want to go to a 50mJ coil or higher. I hope this helps!
Interesting on the ignition coil side.. I've never heard of anyone needing to run different ignition coils especially on such a low boost as 8psi.
I recently beat the piss out of the car yesterday in the cold weather and it ran great.. only issue is the P0300 code kicks. I'm sending the ecu to have the p0300 code turned off. From everything I've read the code is triggered due to the cams that it has in it since the factory ECU is still under the impression that the cams are the stockers.
Prior to having the motor built the car had 40k worth of miles on the same boost level on the stock engine. So not sure how suddenly that could be an issue except for the sudden change in cam duration.

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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby float_6969 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:52 pm

I could see a cam change altering the "sound" the combustion chamber makes and the ECU picking this up as a mis-fire. If the car seems to run alright, I doubt it's an actual mis-fire. If it was, you would be able to tell.

As for the coils, he's right in that too much dwell can damage the coils, but that would have had to been modified when the ECU was tuned and I can't believe a tuner would add that much dwell time. They saturate pretty quickly and leaving them on for any longer than what it takes for them to saturate only heats them up.

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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:24 pm

float_6969 wrote:I could see a cam change altering the "sound" the combustion chamber makes and the ECU picking this up as a mis-fire. If the car seems to run alright, I doubt it's an actual mis-fire. If it was, you would be able to tell.

As for the coils, he's right in that too much dwell can damage the coils, but that would have had to been modified when the ECU was tuned and I can't believe a tuner would add that much dwell time. They saturate pretty quickly and leaving them on for any longer than what it takes for them to saturate only heats them up.
Ya its pretty much the same with the factory ECU flashing on the Evo's. Back in 03 it was the "infamous PO300 misfire code" that was always coming up and for long time no one knew what it could be.. then someone saw it happened always with a cam swap. Hence now all flashed ECU's have the code turned off. Your right about feeling it. Misfire you can just feel the miss.. hell I've felt it when I had a floating valve issue.
Her car runs great and doesn't even skip a beat when driving normal. I did talk to the tuner about the dwell settings and he states he never even touched that area of the tune because he knew how sensitive the coils are. I also talked to Z1motorsports and the instant I mentioned the P0300 misfire code he asked if the cell was turned off. He states all their flashes they turn it off if they do a cam swap.

I was wondering this thought though.. I looked into the R35 GTR coils.. they are VERY identical to the 350/370z coil packs. I wonder if anyone has tried to swap over to see if they would work since we know those engines are boosted and Nissan upped the coils to do better?

jerryd1987
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby jerryd1987 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:18 pm

absolutely wrong on everything with the ignition coils, if your coils are being damaged then something is wrong and it needs fixed not a bandaid which is exactly what your suggesting.

the stock ignition system has proven itself to over 1200 rwhp on bone stock coils and wiring only change being colder plugs. stuff like the hks dli and the various "high energy" coils are wasting money and wont solve your problem(the coils will probably be ruined also and you will be pissed you spent over 1k on them). heck the stock dwell on a engine management system is 4.0 ms, guys run as high as 4.5 ms(the sp drag car making 1200 rwhp on stock coils) with 0 issues. i myself run 4.4 ms dwell and my coils have 110k miles on them...........5k of that boosted at 600 rwhp and another 1k before that at ~400 rwhp

also the p0300 misfire code is a non issue dont worry about it pretty much every boost 350z has it pop up unless the code is disabled in the ecu even if you turn it off it will turn back on unless disabled no one is quite sure why even some of the best tuners across the US. as for the cam thing thats the most off the wall thing ive ever heard............ sorry but the engine has no way of detecting a "sound' for misfire various things could be picked up from the knock sensor but thats a very different code. the p0300 code is tripped by the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensors which detects misfires by sudden rpm changes. requires all 3 in order to trip the code(or 5 in the case of rev ups and hr's) it also has nothing to do with cam swaps whoever "noticed" that is a idiot countless FI guys are running stock heads and still getting the code its FI related not cams its also not standard practice to turn the code off, only if the customer asks for it, z1 might do it to all of theres but def not standard practice.

more then likely it actually is a misfire but it just dosnt happen often enough to feel it, knock and misfire both people seem to think you will "feel" it. if your feeling it thats a BAD misfire as in your seeing hundreds of counts of it, 10 or 15 misfire counts at 3k rpms will not be felt in the least. you can try the gtr coils but your just wasting your money
emhmotorsports wrote:Sorry for being late to this page, but maybe a few things that can help you:

That 'condensor' is actually what we electrical engineers call a 'capacitor'. Its sole function is to minimize the electrical noise coming from the ignitions lines (think of a CB radio broadcasting). Many OEMs are using these things because the vehicle electical emissions (invisible waves in the air) are stricly controlled by the government, and so they must try crazy tricks like this to comply. Anyway, the fact that yours was so badly cooked is of some concern, I would keep an eye on the new one.

As someone mentioned, the blistering on the coil is due to them working harder than intended. A boosted engine requires more ignition energy to light the mixture than a non-boosted engine (due to higher cylinder pressures). If it is setting the misfire code, this means that it is detecting incomplete combustion (the spark plug does not have enough juice to light off the mixture). The factory ECU will try to adjust to the misfiring by increasing the dwell time. Normally, they are limited in how much they can boost the dwell time so that they cannot damage the coils, but if the ECU has been modified, this may have been disabled. I suspect the additional dwell time is overheating your coils. They are surprisingly delicate things on the VQ motor.

To truly solve the problem, I would try to find new ignition coils that have a higher energy rating. I believe the stock coils are around 38 milliJoules, you may want to go to a 50mJ coil or higher. I hope this helps!

Evilevo8
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:20 pm

jerryd1987 wrote:absolutely wrong on everything with the ignition coils, if your coils are being damaged then something is wrong and it needs fixed not a bandaid which is exactly what your suggesting.

the stock ignition system has proven itself to over 1200 rwhp on bone stock coils and wiring only change being colder plugs. stuff like the hks dli and the various "high energy" coils are wasting money and wont solve your problem(the coils will probably be ruined also and you will be pissed you spent over 1k on them). heck the stock dwell on a engine management system is 4.0 ms, guys run as high as 4.5 ms(the sp drag car making 1200 rwhp on stock coils) with 0 issues. i myself run 4.4 ms dwell and my coils have 110k miles on them...........5k of that boosted at 600 rwhp and another 1k before that at ~400 rwhp

also the p0300 misfire code is a non issue dont worry about it pretty much every boost 350z has it pop up unless the code is disabled in the ecu even if you turn it off it will turn back on unless disabled no one is quite sure why even some of the best tuners across the US. as for the cam thing thats the most off the wall thing ive ever heard............ sorry but the engine has no way of detecting a "sound' for misfire various things could be picked up from the knock sensor but thats a very different code. the p0300 code is tripped by the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensors which detects misfires by sudden rpm changes. requires all 3 in order to trip the code(or 5 in the case of rev ups and hr's) it also has nothing to do with cam swaps whoever "noticed" that is a idiot countless FI guys are running stock heads and still getting the code its FI related not cams its also not standard practice to turn the code off, only if the customer asks for it, z1 might do it to all of theres but def not standard practice.

more then likely it actually is a misfire but it just dosnt happen often enough to feel it, knock and misfire both people seem to think you will "feel" it. if your feeling it thats a BAD misfire as in your seeing hundreds of counts of it, 10 or 15 misfire counts at 3k rpms will not be felt in the least. you can try the gtr coils but your just wasting your money
Well with the different coil packs I was never going to try it with the Z. In my Evo I had the HKS DLII and it worked well for what I needed it but I finally went all out and have a COP setup now since the factory coil to boot crap won't cut it for 40+psi I have planned.

I'm sure you've read all the headaches and issues I've gone through to figure out what could be the problem with the misfire and the codes. Since I have replaced the capacitor/WTF ever you call it, I haven't fried a coil in the least. My tuner is Jack at HP Logic and I did discuss with him if he had bumped the dwell setting at all. He advised me he hadn't touched that area since its only running just 8psi on Turbonetics kit. I had driven this car before it had the built motor and cam work done. I did advise him the heads had been ported/polished as well.
Had you had any head work done to your Z and thats why you bumped up your dwell settings? Maybe this is something that could be contributing to it possibly?
I've followed the service manual for all reasons possible for the misfire code and went down the list of issues and checked each one as this thread has mentioned.
When I last drove the car it drove fine and with 0 issues. Multiple starts/stops with easy driving followed with high revs to 7k WOT. Finally after about 2hrs of driving it triggered the code and then also the same code pending.
Any thoughts on your part what it could possibly be to trigger this?

jerryd1987
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby jerryd1987 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:53 pm

probably different for a evo, i dont have one so im not sure but this is in reference to the 350z in specific my comments where directed to anyone who thinks they need to replace stock coils because they "arnt strong enough" its just not the case since stock has proven good to 1200hp and 35+ psi boost on this platform.

i did indeed which is why i mentioned a good working system wont have issues, however people mentioned it even after your issue was fixed, spreading misinformation is what causes the 350z platform to be looked down upon in regards to making power and also is looked down upon for the cost. so i just correct misinformation when i see it otherwise the platform will never grow(especially since 9/10 the people spreading the false information have no idea what they are talking about......... like anyone saying you need stronger coils for boost on this platform rofl)

he is correct though for your tune, i run higher dwell because i run 20% methanol for fuel and swapping that out for 34% paint thinner, alot of other guys run it to ensure complete combustion. hal from dynosty(arguably the best shop in the united states if you want anything done to a 350z, one of only two shops i know of to never have a blown engine on the platform the other being vinny ten racing) has done extensive testing on the haltech and has found 4.4 ms dwell gives 100% saturation on the coils vs the stock 4.0ms(hal also see's any changes to haltech software for this platform months before anyone else and works closesly with them to further the hardware and software) the extra dwell starts to add some power up top with no deterioration of the coils.

as far as heads and cams no i run 8.0:1 pistons however my heads and cams are stock only running upgraded springs and retainers for higher rpm use. stock cams make 600/600 hp/tq and my limiting factor was the clutch. slipped at 601 ft lbs of torque at 4800 rpms and never even hit the peak 32 psi of boost only saw a small spike to 26 no reason stock heads cant do 700+ porting and polishing these heads are a waste of money unless your aiming for 1k+ they flow better stock then ported and polished 2jz heads according to flow tests available, plus like i said im making more power then anyone else on stock cams only reason to go bigger is to right shift the power band for traction.

if your not experiencing drivability issues and its just a code i would say ignore it no one is sure what causes it so everyone ignores it 90% of boosted 350z/g35's see it with no drivability or power issues leading to believe theres some glitch in the coding on how the ecu picks up misfires or likely just a very slight misfire that isnt noticable. i know every single boosted g or z on island has this code, at least everyone ive seen, and none have issues..................... well i dont since i dont run a stock ecu anymore or stock guages.
Evilevo8 wrote:
jerryd1987 wrote:absolutely wrong on everything with the ignition coils, if your coils are being damaged then something is wrong and it needs fixed not a bandaid which is exactly what your suggesting.

the stock ignition system has proven itself to over 1200 rwhp on bone stock coils and wiring only change being colder plugs. stuff like the hks dli and the various "high energy" coils are wasting money and wont solve your problem(the coils will probably be ruined also and you will be pissed you spent over 1k on them). heck the stock dwell on a engine management system is 4.0 ms, guys run as high as 4.5 ms(the sp drag car making 1200 rwhp on stock coils) with 0 issues. i myself run 4.4 ms dwell and my coils have 110k miles on them...........5k of that boosted at 600 rwhp and another 1k before that at ~400 rwhp

also the p0300 misfire code is a non issue dont worry about it pretty much every boost 350z has it pop up unless the code is disabled in the ecu even if you turn it off it will turn back on unless disabled no one is quite sure why even some of the best tuners across the US. as for the cam thing thats the most off the wall thing ive ever heard............ sorry but the engine has no way of detecting a "sound' for misfire various things could be picked up from the knock sensor but thats a very different code. the p0300 code is tripped by the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensors which detects misfires by sudden rpm changes. requires all 3 in order to trip the code(or 5 in the case of rev ups and hr's) it also has nothing to do with cam swaps whoever "noticed" that is a idiot countless FI guys are running stock heads and still getting the code its FI related not cams its also not standard practice to turn the code off, only if the customer asks for it, z1 might do it to all of theres but def not standard practice.

more then likely it actually is a misfire but it just dosnt happen often enough to feel it, knock and misfire both people seem to think you will "feel" it. if your feeling it thats a BAD misfire as in your seeing hundreds of counts of it, 10 or 15 misfire counts at 3k rpms will not be felt in the least. you can try the gtr coils but your just wasting your money
Well with the different coil packs I was never going to try it with the Z. In my Evo I had the HKS DLII and it worked well for what I needed it but I finally went all out and have a COP setup now since the factory coil to boot crap won't cut it for 40+psi I have planned.

I'm sure you've read all the headaches and issues I've gone through to figure out what could be the problem with the misfire and the codes. Since I have replaced the capacitor/WTF ever you call it, I haven't fried a coil in the least. My tuner is Jack at HP Logic and I did discuss with him if he had bumped the dwell setting at all. He advised me he hadn't touched that area since its only running just 8psi on Turbonetics kit. I had driven this car before it had the built motor and cam work done. I did advise him the heads had been ported/polished as well.
Had you had any head work done to your Z and thats why you bumped up your dwell settings? Maybe this is something that could be contributing to it possibly?
I've followed the service manual for all reasons possible for the misfire code and went down the list of issues and checked each one as this thread has mentioned.
When I last drove the car it drove fine and with 0 issues. Multiple starts/stops with easy driving followed with high revs to 7k WOT. Finally after about 2hrs of driving it triggered the code and then also the same code pending.
Any thoughts on your part what it could possibly be to trigger this?

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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:35 pm

The heads were ported because I just felt what the heck on it TBO. Didn't think it would do much if anything at all but couldn't really hurt. The cams we went with since we found the stock cams had actually worn a lobe down(helped with destruction of the factory motor) so just decided to upgrade the cams since had to outright replace all 4. The other lobes on the rest were not damaged but rather be safe than sorry more than anything.
The shift in the powerband is what I was aiming for. She can get sideways with a quickness since she's running 35 series size tread in the rear on 20's. She got a ticket for "excessive display of power" here awhile back because the rear stepped out when she was making a left turn. The small size of the turbo with a .63AR housing helps out considerably with spool to say the least lol.
My end goal for the car is 600hp. Well thats what SHE wants actually. I've already got a turbo in mind that should get her there with plenty of room to spare with relative quick spool still. I have my T04Z or GT37R on a .63AR housing that is a direct bolt on to her kit and will fit nicely. I'm figuring 15-20psi should get her there with a quickness. I had to run 30psi on pump in my Evo to get 615, but that was on a 2.0L motor vs a 3.5L. We'll see.

We originally went from a UTEC to a Haltech Platinum, but when we went to tune.. ya Haltech couldn't control the idle and we needed to bump idle due to cams. That and we thought we were getting a full standalone..come to find out Haltech Platinum is piggyback like the UTEC. SO went back to factory ECU and got it flashed via UPRev and haven't looked back. Car idles fine, catches idle like factory etc.

I'll ignore the cell light and guess see what if anything happens with just normal driveability and see if anything else just triggers but I'm thinking nothing will really.
More than anything she is just glad to have her baby back on the road. She's back to enjoying the near neck braking looks when the guys notice its a girl who just whipped their V8 asses :bigthumb:
jerryd1987 wrote:probably different for a evo, i dont have one so im not sure but this is in reference to the 350z in specific my comments where directed to anyone who thinks they need to replace stock coils because they "arnt strong enough" its just not the case since stock has proven good to 1200hp and 35+ psi boost on this platform.

i did indeed which is why i mentioned a good working system wont have issues, however people mentioned it even after your issue was fixed, spreading misinformation is what causes the 350z platform to be looked down upon in regards to making power and also is looked down upon for the cost. so i just correct misinformation when i see it otherwise the platform will never grow(especially since 9/10 the people spreading the false information have no idea what they are talking about......... like anyone saying you need stronger coils for boost on this platform rofl)

he is correct though for your tune, i run higher dwell because i run 20% methanol for fuel and swapping that out for 34% paint thinner, alot of other guys run it to ensure complete combustion. hal from dynosty(arguably the best shop in the united states if you want anything done to a 350z, one of only two shops i know of to never have a blown engine on the platform the other being vinny ten racing) has done extensive testing on the haltech and has found 4.4 ms dwell gives 100% saturation on the coils vs the stock 4.0ms(hal also see's any changes to haltech software for this platform months before anyone else and works closesly with them to further the hardware and software) the extra dwell starts to add some power up top with no deterioration of the coils.

as far as heads and cams no i run 8.0:1 pistons however my heads and cams are stock only running upgraded springs and retainers for higher rpm use. stock cams make 600/600 hp/tq and my limiting factor was the clutch. slipped at 601 ft lbs of torque at 4800 rpms and never even hit the peak 32 psi of boost only saw a small spike to 26 no reason stock heads cant do 700+ porting and polishing these heads are a waste of money unless your aiming for 1k+ they flow better stock then ported and polished 2jz heads according to flow tests available, plus like i said im making more power then anyone else on stock cams only reason to go bigger is to right shift the power band for traction.

if your not experiencing drivability issues and its just a code i would say ignore it no one is sure what causes it so everyone ignores it 90% of boosted 350z/g35's see it with no drivability or power issues leading to believe theres some glitch in the coding on how the ecu picks up misfires or likely just a very slight misfire that isnt noticable. i know every single boosted g or z on island has this code, at least everyone ive seen, and none have issues..................... well i dont since i dont run a stock ecu anymore or stock guages.
jerryd1987 wrote:absolutely wrong on everything with the ignition coils, if your coils are being damaged then something is wrong and it needs fixed not a bandaid which is exactly what your suggesting.

the stock ignition system has proven itself to over 1200 rwhp on bone stock coils and wiring only change being colder plugs. stuff like the hks dli and the various "high energy" coils are wasting money and wont solve your problem(the coils will probably be ruined also and you will be pissed you spent over 1k on them). heck the stock dwell on a engine management system is 4.0 ms, guys run as high as 4.5 ms(the sp drag car making 1200 rwhp on stock coils) with 0 issues. i myself run 4.4 ms dwell and my coils have 110k miles on them...........5k of that boosted at 600 rwhp and another 1k before that at ~400 rwhp

also the p0300 misfire code is a non issue dont worry about it pretty much every boost 350z has it pop up unless the code is disabled in the ecu even if you turn it off it will turn back on unless disabled no one is quite sure why even some of the best tuners across the US. as for the cam thing thats the most off the wall thing ive ever heard............ sorry but the engine has no way of detecting a "sound' for misfire various things could be picked up from the knock sensor but thats a very different code. the p0300 code is tripped by the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensors which detects misfires by sudden rpm changes. requires all 3 in order to trip the code(or 5 in the case of rev ups and hr's) it also has nothing to do with cam swaps whoever "noticed" that is a idiot countless FI guys are running stock heads and still getting the code its FI related not cams its also not standard practice to turn the code off, only if the customer asks for it, z1 might do it to all of theres but def not standard practice.

more then likely it actually is a misfire but it just dosnt happen often enough to feel it, knock and misfire both people seem to think you will "feel" it. if your feeling it thats a BAD misfire as in your seeing hundreds of counts of it, 10 or 15 misfire counts at 3k rpms will not be felt in the least. you can try the gtr coils but your just wasting your money
Well with the different coil packs I was never going to try it with the Z. In my Evo I had the HKS DLII and it worked well for what I needed it but I finally went all out and have a COP setup now since the factory coil to boot crap won't cut it for 40+psi I have planned.

I'm sure you've read all the headaches and issues I've gone through to figure out what could be the problem with the misfire and the codes. Since I have replaced the capacitor/WTF ever you call it, I haven't fried a coil in the least. My tuner is Jack at HP Logic and I did discuss with him if he had bumped the dwell setting at all. He advised me he hadn't touched that area since its only running just 8psi on Turbonetics kit. I had driven this car before it had the built motor and cam work done. I did advise him the heads had been ported/polished as well.
Had you had any head work done to your Z and thats why you bumped up your dwell settings? Maybe this is something that could be contributing to it possibly?
I've followed the service manual for all reasons possible for the misfire code and went down the list of issues and checked each one as this thread has mentioned.
When I last drove the car it drove fine and with 0 issues. Multiple starts/stops with easy driving followed with high revs to 7k WOT. Finally after about 2hrs of driving it triggered the code and then also the same code pending.
Any thoughts on your part what it could possibly be to trigger this?
[/quote]

jerryd1987
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:25 am
Car: 03 350z many mods inc next year

Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby jerryd1987 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:38 pm

actually the exact opposite is true you can very much hurt power especially on your setup, unless your spinning your setup to 8k your going to be making less power then you would on stock cams although your also on the turbonetics kit so i imagine your not really concerned with power that much just wanted something extra. porting and polishing opens up the ports increasing there cross sectional area which in turn slows velocity causing your turbo to take longer to spool and making significant less power at the same boost level. ive also seen people actually polish the intake ports(pro shops mind you) so they are smooth which again is a horrible idea they should be done with a 80 grit sanding drum or equivilant for the final pass on the intake runners. this provides a boundary layer for air to flow over that just sits there and never goes into the engine. this will make the engine fool itself into thinking the runners are smaller as well as air has less friction over the surface then metal so if they actually polished it smooth they doubly hurt you.

if your having traction issues at 8 psi its either one of the following and this isnt an attempt at insult just providing a fact 1)dosnt know how to drive or 2)needs a better tire(20's on a sports car is just a bad idea period i dont see why people do this you turbo a car to make it faster then slow it down with additional weight as well as make it harder to stop.........) 35 series dosnt tell us anything...... i run a 35 series tire and its great i only spin very slightly in 1st 305/35/18 to be exact.

it seems you arnt really sure what you want, you say you want power but your running 20's and the turbonetics kit, if you want power i will gladly give you advice(since im already there on low boost and i dont represent any shop so i get nothing out of it.) and the first step would be to ditch the turbonetics kit, 1) its a t3 foot print on our cars your not going to get past 500 to the wheels and even then the turbos gona be really strung out not to mention have surge issues. 2) the piping is to small to make power, 3) the intercooler is too small. when you end up fixing all the things wrong(trust me people have tried they put a 6765 turbo on they still couldnt make over 500 on a t3 foot print and thats a 900 hp turbo with upgraded piping and intercooler) you will pretty much have a custom brand new turbo kkit at twice the price. personally i only suggest boosted performance for single turbo because all his turbos are t4, the front mount kits are all t3 or go to twins, greddy, jtw or gtm although greddy or jwt preferred im not a fan of anything gtm but thats your call. also ditch the 20's go with either 18ss or 17's if you intend to run a bbk go 18's since only some 17's fit 13 inch rotors(the 14 inch kits really are not needed, your not doing anything with them except slowing the car down from extra rotational mass)


haltech is one of the best engine managements for our platform(and you could have upped the idle using cipher which anyone with a uprev cable can do for you for free) but the old one couldnt control idle due to no throttle body control, the new one replaces the stock ecu completely and also controls the TB, i dint care so i converted over to a 04 mustang cable TB comparing it to the utec is blasphemy because it is a standalone even the old one the only thing the stock ecu controls is the TB and guages the haltech controls everything else fully(signal dosnt even go to stock ecu or come from it unless you enable copy through) the utec intercepts and alters signals from the stock ecu completely different control schemes. uprev is great but your going to have issues because uprev dosnt offer wideband control like the haltech does, nor does it provide boost control like the haltech does. there are other options such as pro efi but its expensive if you want to control the stock TB with it(have to use the 128 unit not the 48) or the new aem infinity but someone will have to wire it for you.

for reference its not going to be cheap though especially if you engine builder is questionable, the goal your aiming for on our platforms seems to be the breaking point for alot of engines because people dont account for the extra heat and expansion and thats why the z and g platform have a bad rap with the most recent ones. i know i have 28k total invested in my drivetrain without axles or lsd(stock works fine lol) to make ~800-900 to the wheels. also with a 6765 20 psi will get you about 650 hp roughly, benders clutch was slipping also though so he might have made 700, my setup hits harder then his so my clutch slipped sooner but im sending the turbo off for the 66 wheel and should actually hit 900. tryed to get my buddy to rotate the turbine housing while i was putting the trans back in and not only did he not do it but now the turbo sounds like either the shaft or turbine is hitting im hoping its the turbine damaged not the shaft >.<
Evilevo8 wrote:The heads were ported because I just felt what the heck on it TBO. Didn't think it would do much if anything at all but couldn't really hurt. The cams we went with since we found the stock cams had actually worn a lobe down(helped with destruction of the factory motor) so just decided to upgrade the cams since had to outright replace all 4. The other lobes on the rest were not damaged but rather be safe than sorry more than anything.
The shift in the powerband is what I was aiming for. She can get sideways with a quickness since she's running 35 series size tread in the rear on 20's. She got a ticket for "excessive display of power" here awhile back because the rear stepped out when she was making a left turn. The small size of the turbo with a .63AR housing helps out considerably with spool to say the least lol.
My end goal for the car is 600hp. Well thats what SHE wants actually. I've already got a turbo in mind that should get her there with plenty of room to spare with relative quick spool still. I have my T04Z or GT37R on a .63AR housing that is a direct bolt on to her kit and will fit nicely. I'm figuring 15-20psi should get her there with a quickness. I had to run 30psi on pump in my Evo to get 615, but that was on a 2.0L motor vs a 3.5L. We'll see.

We originally went from a UTEC to a Haltech Platinum, but when we went to tune.. ya Haltech couldn't control the idle and we needed to bump idle due to cams. That and we thought we were getting a full standalone..come to find out Haltech Platinum is piggyback like the UTEC. SO went back to factory ECU and got it flashed via UPRev and haven't looked back. Car idles fine, catches idle like factory etc.

I'll ignore the cell light and guess see what if anything happens with just normal driveability and see if anything else just triggers but I'm thinking nothing will really.
More than anything she is just glad to have her baby back on the road. She's back to enjoying the near neck braking looks when the guys notice its a girl who just whipped their V8 asses :bigthumb:

Evilevo8
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:55 am
Car: Fully built 350Z single turbo
Fully built Evo 8
Fully stock 2g GST eclipse vert

Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:05 pm

The traction issue was actually the fact that the rear camber was always kicked out until it was replaced with a rear camber kit. That and the tires she runs are due to her sponsorship through Dunlop..I can't recall the model off the top of my head but these tires never were made really for traction. The 20in DPE rims she runs is part of the show aspect of the car. We have the stocker 17's for when she's ready to really get serious about traction. For the most part its a gentle start off the line at the autox and then romp on it. Here's an old vid from '07 the last time the car saw the track:

http://www.streetfire.net/video/kats-tu ... 130409.htm

The car was in the club Jinsoku back in the day. So the 20's main thing was for the show aspect obviously. The tire IIRC is 285/35/20.

As far as knowing what I want, its more of what she wants. She understands some things have to be given up in order to get the more ideal power since weight is a very key factor among other things such as you pointed out the 20in rims. What the video and pics of this car don't show are also the huge stereo system, tvs, etc that are inside this car. She's traced her puertorican roots when it comes to bump in the trunk of this car to say the least :lolling: .
I've looked at the turbonetics kit and the piping involved just for the compression side and yes.. the miles of piping and crazy size reduction and bends hurt the hell out of it(especially in the front of the engine and the upper IC piping right back over near the hotside of the turbo and exhaust don't help either). I've actually talked with a friend here locally who specializes in fabrication about designing a much more efficient kit..even better than the old Momentum single turbo kits. I'll be taking the turbonetics hot parts up to where the turbo mates up.. but from there on in we will be doing something much more efficient. Lets just say I strongly believe in the KISS method.. less bends+larger piping+direct routing=EFFICIENCY. I've looked at the boosted performance kits but its unrealistic to her car simply because of how low her Z sits. I'd be scared shitless from every speed bump to say the least.
I think my 37R will do the job nicely despite being a T3 frame. The main issue with the Turbonetics kit simply is it was designed in mind with a QUICK bolt on turbo kit with minimal movement of factory components. I'll be relocating small things, but nothing anyone with a momentum kit didn't do.

As for the tuning aspect. The Haltech was more my area since I'm an AEM kinda guy when it comes to my Evo. The attempt to tune on the Haltech was met with a bit of difficulty by a well known shop down here in FL. CFT or Central Florida Turbo did the tune and got the car to run descent but overall driveability I found myself having to catch the idle and hold it with my right foot while braking with my left when coming to a stop..drove me NUTS! To further complicate the problem the old walbro in the car was crapping out. So once I changed to a new walbro it turned out the old walbro was on its last legs causing fuel pressure to be very low.. when I put in the new walbro in and tried running the car on identical tune it would basically flood the engine. So had to put the old walbro in. By that time no one could help me as far as the idle or correcting the fuel tables on the haltech. Everyone was telling me get the dealer to flash the idle at higher rpm etc. So your mention of misinformation earlier was working against me to say the least. I understand that with UpRev it doesn't have AFR control, but I did put in a digital AFR gauge to allow for accurate viewing of the AFR at any given time.
Image
As far as boost control this aspect I'm applying the KISS method to as well. A simple single inline boost controller has never failed me. I even run a 2 stage manual(high/low) switched manual in my Evo. We still have the Haltech if we ever decide to use it again, but right now as it sits the UpRev has us both very happy.

Our engine builder is a very good builder. He has done some of the craziest builds with ridiculous power output in cars you just wouldn't think possible. Here's an example of one of his personal cars.. its in a 3rd gen RX7..factory hood closes over it. If there's anyone I trusted with her build..this would be the guy. We went with 8.5:1 CP pistons/crower rods combo for the internals.
Image

jerryd1987 wrote:actually the exact opposite is true you can very much hurt power especially on your setup, unless your spinning your setup to 8k your going to be making less power then you would on stock cams although your also on the turbonetics kit so i imagine your not really concerned with power that much just wanted something extra. porting and polishing opens up the ports increasing there cross sectional area which in turn slows velocity causing your turbo to take longer to spool and making significant less power at the same boost level. ive also seen people actually polish the intake ports(pro shops mind you) so they are smooth which again is a horrible idea they should be done with a 80 grit sanding drum or equivilant for the final pass on the intake runners. this provides a boundary layer for air to flow over that just sits there and never goes into the engine. this will make the engine fool itself into thinking the runners are smaller as well as air has less friction over the surface then metal so if they actually polished it smooth they doubly hurt you.

if your having traction issues at 8 psi its either one of the following and this isnt an attempt at insult just providing a fact 1)dosnt know how to drive or 2)needs a better tire(20's on a sports car is just a bad idea period i dont see why people do this you turbo a car to make it faster then slow it down with additional weight as well as make it harder to stop.........) 35 series dosnt tell us anything...... i run a 35 series tire and its great i only spin very slightly in 1st 305/35/18 to be exact.

it seems you arnt really sure what you want, you say you want power but your running 20's and the turbonetics kit, if you want power i will gladly give you advice(since im already there on low boost and i dont represent any shop so i get nothing out of it.) and the first step would be to ditch the turbonetics kit, 1) its a t3 foot print on our cars your not going to get past 500 to the wheels and even then the turbos gona be really strung out not to mention have surge issues. 2) the piping is to small to make power, 3) the intercooler is too small. when you end up fixing all the things wrong(trust me people have tried they put a 6765 turbo on they still couldnt make over 500 on a t3 foot print and thats a 900 hp turbo with upgraded piping and intercooler) you will pretty much have a custom brand new turbo kkit at twice the price. personally i only suggest boosted performance for single turbo because all his turbos are t4, the front mount kits are all t3 or go to twins, greddy, jtw or gtm although greddy or jwt preferred im not a fan of anything gtm but thats your call. also ditch the 20's go with either 18ss or 17's if you intend to run a bbk go 18's since only some 17's fit 13 inch rotors(the 14 inch kits really are not needed, your not doing anything with them except slowing the car down from extra rotational mass)


haltech is one of the best engine managements for our platform(and you could have upped the idle using cipher which anyone with a uprev cable can do for you for free) but the old one couldnt control idle due to no throttle body control, the new one replaces the stock ecu completely and also controls the TB, i dint care so i converted over to a 04 mustang cable TB comparing it to the utec is blasphemy because it is a standalone even the old one the only thing the stock ecu controls is the TB and guages the haltech controls everything else fully(signal dosnt even go to stock ecu or come from it unless you enable copy through) the utec intercepts and alters signals from the stock ecu completely different control schemes. uprev is great but your going to have issues because uprev dosnt offer wideband control like the haltech does, nor does it provide boost control like the haltech does. there are other options such as pro efi but its expensive if you want to control the stock TB with it(have to use the 128 unit not the 48) or the new aem infinity but someone will have to wire it for you.

for reference its not going to be cheap though especially if you engine builder is questionable, the goal your aiming for on our platforms seems to be the breaking point for alot of engines because people dont account for the extra heat and expansion and thats why the z and g platform have a bad rap with the most recent ones. i know i have 28k total invested in my drivetrain without axles or lsd(stock works fine lol) to make ~800-900 to the wheels. also with a 6765 20 psi will get you about 650 hp roughly, benders clutch was slipping also though so he might have made 700, my setup hits harder then his so my clutch slipped sooner but im sending the turbo off for the 66 wheel and should actually hit 900. tryed to get my buddy to rotate the turbine housing while i was putting the trans back in and not only did he not do it but now the turbo sounds like either the shaft or turbine is hitting im hoping its the turbine damaged not the shaft >.<
Evilevo8 wrote:The heads were ported because I just felt what the heck on it TBO. Didn't think it would do much if anything at all but couldn't really hurt. The cams we went with since we found the stock cams had actually worn a lobe down(helped with destruction of the factory motor) so just decided to upgrade the cams since had to outright replace all 4. The other lobes on the rest were not damaged but rather be safe than sorry more than anything.
The shift in the powerband is what I was aiming for. She can get sideways with a quickness since she's running 35 series size tread in the rear on 20's. She got a ticket for "excessive display of power" here awhile back because the rear stepped out when she was making a left turn. The small size of the turbo with a .63AR housing helps out considerably with spool to say the least lol.
My end goal for the car is 600hp. Well thats what SHE wants actually. I've already got a turbo in mind that should get her there with plenty of room to spare with relative quick spool still. I have my T04Z or GT37R on a .63AR housing that is a direct bolt on to her kit and will fit nicely. I'm figuring 15-20psi should get her there with a quickness. I had to run 30psi on pump in my Evo to get 615, but that was on a 2.0L motor vs a 3.5L. We'll see.

We originally went from a UTEC to a Haltech Platinum, but when we went to tune.. ya Haltech couldn't control the idle and we needed to bump idle due to cams. That and we thought we were getting a full standalone..come to find out Haltech Platinum is piggyback like the UTEC. SO went back to factory ECU and got it flashed via UPRev and haven't looked back. Car idles fine, catches idle like factory etc.

I'll ignore the cell light and guess see what if anything happens with just normal driveability and see if anything else just triggers but I'm thinking nothing will really.
More than anything she is just glad to have her baby back on the road. She's back to enjoying the near neck braking looks when the guys notice its a girl who just whipped their V8 asses :bigthumb:

Evilevo8
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:55 am
Car: Fully built 350Z single turbo
Fully built Evo 8
Fully stock 2g GST eclipse vert

Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:19 pm

Btw I wanted to thank you for the info and time you've given me in regards to my original post. Most info/help I've gotten from any other Z member hands down.

User avatar
emhmotorsports
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:28 pm
Car: 350Z Track Model

Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby emhmotorsports » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:27 pm

jerryd1987 wrote:probably different for a evo, i dont have one so im not sure but this is in reference to the 350z in specific my comments where directed to anyone who thinks they need to replace stock coils because they "arnt strong enough" its just not the case since stock has proven good to 1200hp and 35+ psi boost on this platform.

i did indeed which is why i mentioned a good working system wont have issues, however people mentioned it even after your issue was fixed, spreading misinformation is what causes the 350z platform to be looked down upon in regards to making power and also is looked down upon for the cost. so i just correct misinformation when i see it otherwise the platform will never grow(especially since 9/10 the people spreading the false information have no idea what they are talking about......... like anyone saying you need stronger coils for boost on this platform rofl)
]
Please put away the flamethrower. I am simply trying to help someone in need here, not bashing the VQ35. My 350Z is NA, so yes, I don't know how much ignition energy it will take for this engine, but I know in general that boosted cars from the factory run stronger coils than those that aren't. I could go on about how wrong you are on how the misfire diagnostics work, but that's not helping Evilevo8 here - is it?

Evilevo8: glad to hear you're getting through the problems. I like hearing campfire stories of V8s being shown the taillights of a V6! :biggrin:

jerryd1987
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:25 am
Car: 03 350z many mods inc next year

Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby jerryd1987 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:32 pm

completely agree thats why im a huge fan of BP's setup it mounts behind the transmission but actually has a couple feet less piping then the front mount kits like turbonetics/momentum/PL. some people get concerned with it being under the car but ive scraped several times and not touched the kit except for very minor rubbing on the y pipe where anything would have been hit. even then it wasnt even the pipe but the heat wrap, no heat wrap and it wouldnt have touched. draws air from the wheel well and never gotten a drop of water in either and hawaii rains daily, some of them damn near hurricane rains without the wind and still nothing. which is why i would say thats the only route i would go with a single, plus it gets the hot a** turbo out of the engine compartment. i can take pictures if you want when my turbo gets back(getting the 66 wheel put on the exhuast side) but you would have to tear the floor board off the car to be able to hit the kit, literally no joke the lowest part of kit(the y pipe) sits about 4 inchs above the pinch welds, the turbo itself is about 6-8 inchs off the ground depending on your ride height. alot of people are running the kit now and no one has had issues with it installed correctly the gt37 will work for what you want but you have to go with a t4 hotside or you wont. its not the compressor wheel thats the limiting factor its the exhuast, the biggest t3 housing available is still smaller then the tiny t4 housing and thats where the restriction is, binder is running ported heads and 272 cams and the T3 .82 housing became a huge restriction at only 500 to the wheels, he picked up 150 rwhp at less boost by doing nothing but switching to the .96 open, i know i see 2 psi at 2200, 20 at 4500, and 26 at 5k before the clutch slipped with the .96 housing .81 would be perfect for your goals.

even the people with the momentum kit where switching to tial or t4 exhuast housing to go for more power then stock block power, t3 is fine for that but crap for a built engine.

as for the tune i would say if you are going to go this route switch out to the new haltech that controls the TB(old one isnt sold anymore the new one completely replaces the stock ecu) and have dynosty tune it in KY i had the same issue your experiencing and its from a poor tune i know because im the one who tuned my car and i tuned it out with the transient throttle tables and decel fuel cut. like i said hal is hands down the best person to go to for this in the united states, VTR is good too but they like hydra and not many people tune with that. or just go back to your old one up to you personally i would sell the stock flashed ecu and old haltech which should cover most of the cost of the new unit.(plus it could give you flex fuel capabilitys if you have access to e85)

with the widebands even with your gauge you cannot react fast enough if you have a major issue, the haltech on the other hand can adjust fueling to correct improper fuel ratios with wideband control. not sure what you mean with the boost control? are you saying just using a manual valve? never seen a mac valve fail on boost control, even if it does theres no failure to the engine since it will cause the engine to run wastegate pressure and the only difference in complexity between manual and the haltech would be a single ground wire and a single signal wire going to the haltech since the vacuum hose routing would be identical to a manual controller. plus it gives you the added benefit of boost by speed, gear, or rpm to help with traction issues which i can tell you is a huge help.

since it looks like your guy likes v8's your clearances should be good(too many import guys try to set clearances tight the vq35 has bearings bigger then a lsx and almost as big as a big block chevy, setting the clearances the same as a honda will definitely not work but people seem to think applying the fsm specs to a engine making 2-4x the power works.............. why i build my own cars), cp pistons and crower rods you should be able to go higher too, stock sleeves have shown to handle 800 whp i might try for 900 no one has really pushed them.

for 600 to the wheels i can say my 305/35/18 toyo r888's hold very the power very well, very minor spinning but i also had em heat cycled and cured when i purchased them. for above that i would recommend a 17 inch rim ad 26 inch tall tire that corresponds to your track type event the extra sidewall will help i wouldnt go stock though they are heavy as crap, i went a inch bigger diameter and 2 inchs bigger in width and still shaved over 4 lbs off each rear wheel going with tsw interlaggos, rpf1's would get you about 5.5 lbs off the weight of the stock 17 and volks iirc are about 8 or 9 lbs lighter then the stock 17's(this is 18x10.5 for all of them of course your gona need around a 9-10.5 inch rim to handle the tire and an appropriate tire to match not sure what dunlop offers i use r compounds now)

definitely drop some weight if you can ie the stereo equipment lol amazing the difference it can make, i know of a 620 whp corvette that cant touch me because of all the weight savings although im a bit extreme, def not for everyone. gotta get it weighed but should be under 2850 now

Evilevo8
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:55 am
Car: Fully built 350Z single turbo
Fully built Evo 8
Fully stock 2g GST eclipse vert

Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby Evilevo8 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:07 pm

Well it seems the gremlins never seem to die...ok so here's a recap.

Had the ECU sent down to HP logic to turn off the check cel light. Car ran and drove great. Drove it on and off like that for about 2 months. Decided to take the car to drift atlanta with 2 other Z's. Got as far as Tifton GA..popped 3 coils in succession all #1 cylinder. :facepalm:
So after a lengthy tow bill back home I let the car sit in frustration. One thing I had noted was that when a coil went it was EXTREMELY hot. I had concluded this was due to the fact the engine block was hot from usage (mind you not over heating coolant hot).

So came back to it and decided to change the engine harness out completely thinking that might be the problem. Tracked down a low mileage one with no cuts splices etc. Put that in the car and wouldn't start just crank and crank. So I'm like WTH!? Well while pushing the car I noticed a sudden puff of smoke. Yep coil #1 again. Hot as hell to the touch. So I'm thinking this is interesting. All the grounds were cleaned off and newer harness made sure every connection was perfect and then some.

Had a friend come over who's a bit of a wiring guru. We checked the coils and we checked the plugs for the coils. INTERESTINGLY found that normal volts for power, no signal obviously since not running and then 5 volts from GROUND! Checked the #3 plug.. normal no power from ground. So at this point I'm thinking something in the ECU is whats possibly making this damn thing do this. I've sent the ECU off to get a full bench test done on it to see what could possibly be causing this issue.

Has ANYONE ever heard of something like this EVER!? Between the harness the coil and the ECU there isn't anything else attached that I could think of. Since I've gone through numerous coils, an engine harness I can only conclude its something in the ECU.

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float_6969
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby float_6969 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:26 am

Does the Z have a separate ignition amplifier, or are they built into the coils?

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djwarner
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2006 350Z
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Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby djwarner » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:05 am

Since you are in the Tampa area, I'd suggest you call the guys over at Z-Fever Racing. If anyone is familiar with this problem, they will.

jerryd1987
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:25 am
Car: 03 350z many mods inc next year

Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby jerryd1987 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:36 pm

there is no amplifier, they have ignitors that charge and release the magnetic field to fire the coil which is built in, they are "smart" coils and is why you will fry them if you use something like the HKS DLI in short order
float_6969 wrote:Does the Z have a separate ignition amplifier, or are they built into the coils?

jerryd1987
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:25 am
Car: 03 350z many mods inc next year

Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby jerryd1987 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:40 pm

your not getting 5 volts from ground, your getting 5 volts from the ECU, thats how it triggers, each coil has 12v, ground, and then 5v signal which triggers the igniter to fire the coil. his is doubly reinforced by the fact you say one coil has 5v on ground and another didnt, every single coil grounds to the exact same point, if it had power your battery would explode or a fuse would pop.

you either have bad coils(used? Chinese?), something is causing resistance(spark plug itself? corrosion in the threaded hole since the coil only provides power it grounds to the hole), or tuner straight up lied to you and your dwell is crazy high, thats the only way that thing is over heating enough to keep poping them
Evilevo8 wrote:Well it seems the gremlins never seem to die...ok so here's a recap.

Had the ECU sent down to HP logic to turn off the check cel light. Car ran and drove great. Drove it on and off like that for about 2 months. Decided to take the car to drift atlanta with 2 other Z's. Got as far as Tifton GA..popped 3 coils in succession all #1 cylinder. :facepalm:
So after a lengthy tow bill back home I let the car sit in frustration. One thing I had noted was that when a coil went it was EXTREMELY hot. I had concluded this was due to the fact the engine block was hot from usage (mind you not over heating coolant hot).

So came back to it and decided to change the engine harness out completely thinking that might be the problem. Tracked down a low mileage one with no cuts splices etc. Put that in the car and wouldn't start just crank and crank. So I'm like WTH!? Well while pushing the car I noticed a sudden puff of smoke. Yep coil #1 again. Hot as hell to the touch. So I'm thinking this is interesting. All the grounds were cleaned off and newer harness made sure every connection was perfect and then some.

Had a friend come over who's a bit of a wiring guru. We checked the coils and we checked the plugs for the coils. INTERESTINGLY found that normal volts for power, no signal obviously since not running and then 5 volts from GROUND! Checked the #3 plug.. normal no power from ground. So at this point I'm thinking something in the ECU is whats possibly making this damn thing do this. I've sent the ECU off to get a full bench test done on it to see what could possibly be causing this issue.

Has ANYONE ever heard of something like this EVER!? Between the harness the coil and the ECU there isn't anything else attached that I could think of. Since I've gone through numerous coils, an engine harness I can only conclude its something in the ECU.

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float_6969
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Posts: 19476
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (toy)
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Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby float_6969 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:46 am

If it was the tune, why would it only continue to damage one coil?

This is an electrical issue. Have you tried changing plugs?

jerryd1987
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:25 am
Car: 03 350z many mods inc next year

Re: 350z coil pack..WTH!?

Postby jerryd1987 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:23 pm

Could be slightly different plug gap, air dist, fuel, tons of things that vary from cylinder to cylinder where if.they are all on the ragged edge one could pop, but like I said the three things I listed are my guess. Just please don't waste cash on the okata coils or w/e if you insist on going to better coils wire in ls2 truck coils, same output voltage aNd way cheaper.


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