300zx NA Max rwhp

[JakemzZ]

Hello everyone. As my 300s engine is out of the bay i plan on finishing full bolt on installation... Im putting on headers and light weight pulleys. Along with many other bolt ons. Any body have a similar list to me? If so what hp are you getting?...

Megan Racing Type 2 cat back exhaust
Megan racing Resonated test pipes
Stillen Headers (soon to be installed)
Lightweight UR pulleys (soon to be installed)
Jwt Pop charger
Z1 NA ecu upgrade 93 octane tune
Lightweight flywheel
Z1 NA 1 piece driveshaft
Pcv and egr delete.
Na engine swap 50k miles on it

Im expecting numbers around 210-215rwhp...my last dyno at rosedale was 204rwhp before I put on the headers and pulleys. Any one have a similar list to me? If so let me know!! Trying to get to 220rwhp without any internal work done... Which is gonna be quite the challenge... I have my doubts but its worth a try...

[evildky]

There is a thread on here somewhere where a guy did an n/a build with dyno sheets, I want to say he managed to get around 240 whp, and that the tune was the biggest benefit.

[MrFeesLaw]

^^^I would agree with that. By simply removing things like the EGR and PCV and other emissions you have the potential to gain hp. But, without a proper tune, you will get nothing. Lots of people think you gain horsepower with an intake, but that isn't true unless you also have exhaust. You cannot take in more air than you put out. It is physically impossible. Simple things like this get looked over all the time. If you have a full intake setup and full exhaust, remove emissions, and cats and all that, I don't see why you couldn't get a 20 or more horsepower increase. The tune is key!

I am doing E85 on my Z hoping for some more horsepower. I'm shooting for 240 at the wheels with intake, Full exhaust (no cats or resonators), emissions deletes, larger fuel pump, larger injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator and E85. So... Without trying to, I guess I'm also doing a "No engine teardown" build lol.

Post up some pics and numbers of what you get! I'm super curious now!

[MrFeesLaw]

Other small things can play a big role in horsepower too. Such as adding an X-pipe or an H-pipe to your exhaust. Depending on which one you chose, and if you have the proper location, you can actually cause the exhaust pulses to cancel eachother out (it has a dampening effect). This causes the exhaust to flow smoother and has been proven to cause better exhaust flow, which in turn causes better intake flow, and as we all know, more air means more power!

[JakemzZ]

evildky there is a guy on youtube with a fully built NA that makes 241rwhp the car is sweet but he has everything done internally.. is it possibly the same car that you are talking about? heres the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzumQIYr07U (dyno sheet is at the end of video)

With that kind of power which is like 55-60 more rwhp than stock i can see him getting 0-60 times in the mid to high 5s

[MrFeesLaw]

An N/A with 240 at the wheels would be pretty quick. With the short gears in the rear diff you may even keep up with a stock turbo car to a certain point, and would probably beat them off the line!

The argument could be made that the 2+2 would launch better in a straight-line drag race. If you had the right tire and suspension setup you may be able to beat the turbo in a quarter mile. Although, I would bet that the turbo would have much more top end. But before he turbo car is able to build boost, you may actually have more power with a built N/A until a certain rpm.

[JakemzZ]

That N/A would only be able to beat a TT with NOS. I Just cant see 240whp beating 280whp in a 1/4 mile.... But if you can prove it to me... I would be so happy

[MrFeesLaw]

That N/A would only be able to beat a TT with NOS. I Just cant see 240whp beating 280whp in a 1/4 mile.... But if you can prove it to me... I would be so happy

The problem is, the TT doesn't make 280whp all the time. It makes it for like 300 rpms, while it is in max boost. The rest of the time it maxes, 240, 260, 200.

People always assume that because something makes more peak hp that it is faster, but when you put a car that makes 300hp throughout the whole rpm range, against a car that makes 400 for a split second and then 200 the rest of the time, I can guarantee you the consistent car would win.

Now again, we have no way of knowing the numbers without a build, a dyno, and a test-run, but the possibilities are there. If the N/A can make 240whp from 3000 to 7000 rpms, and the turbo only makes 280whp a small fraction of the time, we may see the N/A win. I can almost garuntee the N/A Would win off the line, as the upgrades the N/A would need to reach 240 peak hp would give it more power down low, whereas the turbo setup is all about high rpm power, and wouldn't have the same base to build power down low. Again, this is all theoretical, but I think the pieces are all there for a 240whp N/A to be competitive with a stock TT. STOCK! BONE STOCK!

[evildky]

It was Honad I was thinking of, he commented on that thread, he made 218 whp, all bolt ons.

[MrFeesLaw]

It was Honad I was thinking of, he commented on that thread, he made 218 whp, all bolt ons.

That's pretty impressive to the wheels. Don't think I want to spend the money on internals since I'm swapping the engine soon, but I want to see if I can get 240 to the wheels with bolt ons, E85 and a tune. Definitely a lot of math involved already. Hoping to go to a dyno days in my area in the next couple of weeks, so we'll see what happens!

[MrFeesLaw]

Just looked up a few dyno runs of stock NA Z32's. Seems like the average over the model years is about 190whp with the 5-speed trans and NO mods whatsoever. So he made over 28 more hp to the wheels with just bolt-ons! That's nuts! That means the number I'm shooting for is 50hp over stock to the wheels... I thought the car would make 205 or so to the wheels before hand... That makes my build a little more challenging We'll see what happens!

[JakemzZ]

Mrfeeslaw do you have a pcv delete? If so are you having any problems with your engine bay getting a little dirty from the oil breathers? I need to buy an oil catch can.

[JakemzZ]

I deleted them to simplify the engine bay and havent had any problems so far. Deleted in october

[MrFeesLaw]

Mrfeeslaw do you have a pcv delete? If so are you having any problems with your engine bay getting a little dirty from the oil breathers? I need to buy an oil catch can.

I may have to do a write-up on this one... I had a short 30 second answer, but I started doing a little more research and talking with my automotive science instructor, and things got complicated quickly.

The short answer is yes, I am going to be modifying my PCV. Not sure if I will be deleting completely or not. The PCV in normal N/A application will probably be fine to delete. The blow-by in the cylinders can easily be managed by atmospheric pressure. Therefore, you can remove the PCV and just put a tube on it, and it will not lower engine performance. This will also keep oil and crankcase gases from returning to the intake, which will help with a cleaner Air/Fuel mixture, and keep engine turbulence smooth, allowing for better air flow.

The problem with removing the PCV comes when you start talking about boost, and high compression. Both of these factors create higher cylinder pressures and cause more blow-by into the crankcase. The problem with this, is that the atmospheric pressure may not be a low enough pressure to pull all of the gases out of the crankcase fast enough, and you may end up building pressure in your crankcase, which can damage seals, cause oil leaks, and in extreme cases can even blow off the valve covers and damage internals.

This means, that on a boosted engine, it would actually be better to leave the PCV on the vehicle, and install a quality catch can between the PCV and the intake. The reason you want to leave the PCV system attached to the intake is to get the vacuum pressure of the intake to pull the gases out. The downside to this, is you still have small amounts of crankcase gases returning into the intake. This causes slight changes in the Air/Fuel Ratio, and also gives the incoming air a new path to take, causing turbulence in the air system that does not offer a smooth flow.

I am currently working on an alternative to these two styles of venting, similar to a Top Fuel Dragster. They have a setup where the crankcase is vented into the exhaust. The way this works is that the exhaust creates a venturi effect (similar to a carburetor), which pulls the fumes from the crankcase into the exhaust stream. The higher the rpm, the faster the exhaust will flow, and the more vacuum will be applied to the crankcase. At higher RPMs you will get more blow-by and this is compensated by higher vacuum. The problem with doing this on our systems is that we do not run the same exhaust as Top Fuel cars. They make so much power they do not need much exhaust tuning to induce flow, they can use atmospheric pressure at the exhaust to flow outwardly, whereas our cars need back-pressure to ensure a low pressure is created within the headers to pull the exhaust out of the engine. Due to this back-pressure, the same venting system may not work on our exhaust, as the exhaust does not create constant flow.

I will do some more research and see if I can come up with a universal solution, but for now I would say if you are running N/A on stock compression, remove the PCV and install a breather (add a catch can if you like). If you are running a turbo, leave the PCV in place (or get an adjustable PCV for high performance applications) and install a catch can between the PCV and the intake. You will need the intake vacuum on a turbo car to pull the crank gases out.

[evildky]

The problem with PCV delete is you let metered air out of the system making the car run richer than before, and we all know" leaner is meaner" so deleting it actually cost you hp, fortunately it's such a minor amount unless something is wrong it's harmless and not noticeable. Deleting the EGR also does nothing for power, it only operates on decel, yes it does introduce dirty fumes into your intake but doesn't cost you any power.

[MrFeesLaw]

The problem with PCV delete is you let metered air out of the system making the car run richer than before, and we all know" leaner is meaner" so deleting it actually cost you hp, fortunately it's such a minor amount unless something is wrong it's harmless and not noticeable. Deleting the EGR also does nothing for power, it only operates on decel, yes it does introduce dirty fumes into your intake but doesn't cost you any power.

The argument could be made that the EGR does cost horsepower, but it isn't immediate. The EGR will allow contaminants to get into the intake, which, as you said, generally don't do much since they are added during deceleration. But, the particles that come in with that gas can stick to your valves and other internals and gum them up. This will restrict air-flow, which will cost you horsepower.

So... Does it immediately effect max power? No. But, I'd much rather have a cleaner, smoother running engine if the option is available.

[JakemzZ]

Bad News. Im livid. The Guy who was working on my NA screwed me over and installed the timing belt off one tooth. AND THEN adjusted the CAS to 15 degrees. I guess that advanced the timing too much or something. MY engine now has the worst f****** valve tick or whatever. It feels like it has no compression now. And the motor had 40k something miles on it. It prolly needs rebuilt now. THE worst part. I ordered my test pipes and headers and they arent going on because he never actually pulled the engine. idk what to do now. I have around $5000 into the suspension. Circuit sports Fucas, rucas, tension rods. Tein superstreet coilovers with edfc. energy suspension bushings. (yes i did the sub frame and differential) Also have the TT sway bar with energy suspension bushings. Parts arent $5000 but under the table labor was. Idk what I can get out of it if the motor runs like s***. Maybe $3500-$4000? It also has a focal sound system in it with a double din touch screen. Once again im pissed. any feedback is welcome.

[z.Leinbach]

valves will naturally refit themselfs, i think if you set it back to dead set you should be ok, it will bring her back to life, i know the feeling bro my car feels like a slug till it gets around 2500 or so then it picks right up, but sometimes when i shut it off it rattles down like valves tapping the cylinder, and i will get alittle thump occasionally of the driverside when it drops down to 600rpms, and idles super rough

[nissanfreak12]

Bad News. Im livid. The Guy who was working on my NA screwed me over and installed the timing belt off one tooth. AND THEN adjusted the CAS to 15 degrees. I guess that advanced the timing too much or something. MY engine now has the worst f****** valve tick or whatever. It feels like it has no compression now. And the motor had 40k something miles on it. It prolly needs rebuilt now. THE worst part. I ordered my test pipes and headers and they arent going on because he never actually pulled the engine. idk what to do now. I have around $5000 into the suspension. Circuit sports Fucas, rucas, tension rods. Tein superstreet coilovers with edfc. energy suspension bushings. (yes i did the sub frame and differential) Also have the TT sway bar with energy suspension bushings. Parts arent $5000 but under the table labor was. Idk what I can get out of it if the motor runs like s***. Maybe $3500-$4000? It also has a focal sound system in it with a double din touch screen. Once again im pissed. any feedback is welcome.

One tooth off will not hit valves, but will cause low compression, rattle sound, everything you describe. Basically it could be causing detonation which is a lot of the rattle. Just get the timing back to true and COUNT THE COGS! Do not rely on the marks on the valve gears, they are just for reference. 15° BTDC just basically tells when the fuel and spark to go. NOthing to do with the valves, thats all in the timing belt, but they all work together.