Especially if they cant tell an intercooler from a radiator.

killboy knows his stuff, calling it a radiator was just a joke

Time for an update!

Well... it looks like the last time I really did something on Betzy was over a month ago. That was because I had to get two years of driving out of my system. I have been busy with work and other stuff as well.

After driving Betzy for more than 2800 miles, it is apparent that she has a big problem with getting traction. Anything with your foot to the floor causes the right rear tire to melt. It was fun at first, but I think it is time to get rid of the open type differential and get a clutch type, limited slip differential (CLSD).

A couple weeks back, Alex located a possible candidate diff out of a junkyard. It ended up needing the clutches replaced.



So we went to plan B. Alex had a Kaaz 2 way LSD he wanted to put in his 300ZXT, and agreed to sell me his CLSD out of his car. So last weekend, we swapped his CLSD for the Kaaz.



The clutch type limited slip differential (CLSD) only came in the Z31 300ZX turbo 5/87 to 89. The Turbo also came with the better axles, more on that tomorrow...



Here is where part of the magic happens. The side and pinion gears inside these pressure rings are beveled and force the two halves of the pressure rings apart when they are turning (one wheel spinning faster or slower). As the pressure rings are forced apart, they put even more pressure on the clutches, causing the axles to lock together.



I got everything cleaned up and ready to assemble. This is time to be extra clean.



I measured the clutch stack, almost new dimensions. Amazing after all the drifting Alex has done with this car. Says alot about keeping up with oil changes.



There are two clutch stacks, One (1) on either side on the pinion gears, consisting of two (2) friction plates and one (1) friction disc.

Here is a plate.



Here is rotor. The rotor is sandwiched between the plates. No abradable material here, just the oil to keep things cool.



On the outside of the each clutch stack, are a pair of bevel type spring plates used to force the clutch stack together. A drag torque of about 18-36 ft/lbs at all times.



Everything ready to go together.



I assembled everything together with plenty of GL-5 lube mixed with CLSD additive.



Stacking up. There is a spacer on outside of bevel springs. Don't forget that.



Everything goes inside with lobes inserted in keyways.



Other clutch stack goes on top with spacer.



Top diff case cover goes on top. Here are the alignment marks. This picture shows the amount of tension that is compressing the plates. Once you assemble the four screws and compressing everything, a bunch of the assembly oil will squish out of the plate stack.



Everything together.



Add the ring gear.



Insert into housing with the shims. I used the originals in the original locations. Everything is happy.



Install the bearing caps.



I discovered that the input companion flanges were different. 88 300ZXT on left, 83 280ZXT on right. No biggy. Simple swap. I do not want to change the drive shaft yoke at this moment. The 88 looks much better though...



Out with the old, in with the new.






Tomorrow I will get the axles installed. Time for a beer.

It's good to be back working on Betzy.

Gord.

your gonna like that, i havent spun my wheels yet with my r230, but i dont have it tuned yet. Trying to get this stupid vss to read on my EMS without the stock skyline cluster. Looks like that will not be happening.

Axle update!

The newer 300ZXT axles will not fit into the narrower S30 chassis without a little help. The axles are a little bit too long. Here is a simple way to shorten them.
From this picture, we can see that the ball cage is sticking out past the axle end. This would cause it to bottom out on the cover on the end.



I loosened up the boot clamp and slid the housing back. You can see the cage is tapered on the inboard side. The ball simply pop out.



Now the cage can be rotated and slid back out of the way.



Remove snap ring and pull the inner race off.



Now that the inner race is off the end of the shaft, you can remove the cage. Now put the inner race back on and assemble the cage and balls, this time with the cage sliding over the inner race from the outside.



Slide the boot and housing back over and check out the difference.



Now the axle can slide out a little more and the cage will not cause it to bottom out on the end plug, effectively shortening the axle.
Shorter one on the left.




Here is a shot of the axle in the passenger side with the housing slid back. You can see how close it is to hitting the stub shaft. Not much room even after the modification.



Next step was to pack everything with grease and put the end caps back on. No photos. I couldn't get a grip on the camera. Messy stuff.

Here is everything together with the suspension hanging. I found this to be the closest point that the axle could bottom out. I could still compress the axle about 1/8 inch before it bottomed out. Plenty of room to remove and install the axle.



Here is when the suspension was compressed. Even more clearance.



All back together. Hooked up the sway bar. It had plenty of room across the back.



Back on the ground. Everything sitting pretty straight across. It looks good.



Test drive went perfect. No unusual noises. Big improvement on acceleration. Cool burnouts. Me likey

Gord

Damn I missed the first drive. I was busy painting my rollcage. I'm glad shes working perfectly for you! Hows that 1st gear pull with traction?

Did you end up keeping the dust caps on? looks like there was plenty of space for them.

~Alex

RustspecS13 wrote: Hows that 1st gear pull with traction? Did you end up keeping the dust caps on? ~Alex

She pulls really hard. I also laid down two big black stripes behind the local strip mall to make sure the posi locks up . I did not stick around for very long with all the smoke and noise. I Also played around with a little drifting in the corners.
So, basically I covered all the stupid stuff I give Cameron crap for doing. I need to grow up...

..Na

The dust caps fit in with no problems. They sit a bit proud of flush and they did not cause any interference with sliding the axles in and out.

I needed to calibrate the speedometer as well. The gear ratio changed and it was off by 3 MPH. Re-calibrated it and now it is perfect. Checked with GPS. We need some sunny days now. This rain is getting old. Nelson Ledges is coming in two weeks.
Gord

I might have to come out to Nelson Ledges. I'm only about 20 minutes away.

Eikon wrote:I might have to come out to Nelson Ledges. I'm only about 20 minutes away.

I really, really, really want to go up this Saturday the 15th. Things are looking good, as of today. It would be great to see you again. I still need to get a few loose ends tied up around here.

Gord

Gord,

I'm bummed, but I can't make it tomorrow. I family stuff that I'm stuck with.

if you go.. I hope the weather stays dry for you!

Next week might be better.
All the local Z car guys are driving up for the October 22nd fun day next weekend.
I might check out the local SCCA moto-x here at National trails tomorrow. Less travel time and less money.
Save up for next week.

Sorry to clutter up the build thread with driving stuff, but here is a quick update.

Last weekend I ended up going to the local SCCA motox. Saturday was really windy but sunny and pleasant. It was held in the parking lot of National Trails raceway. The track was larger than the last SCCA event I participated in. Lots of cool cars. I have gained more respect for the weekend warriors of the local motox. Basically they have a different track layout every weekend and only a short walk through to figure things out. Then they get 5 runs to perfect their times. My times got better with every pass, but after reviewing the video, I see I have plenty of room to improve. I am all over the place. This takes a lot of skill and practice. Betzy performed without a flaw.

Checking in



Some of the cars










This weekend I headed up to Nelson Ledges with the local Z group.

This time we brought a couple trailers, just in case.



The drive up was a bit exciting as we ran over a deer that was lying in the road. Alex washing off the blood and guts from his Z.



Other than that, fun was had by all.

Some of the cars.











Fellow 240Z owner Andy lost a water pump on his first set out on the track. We called local Z car club in Cleveland and they connected us with somebody that lived close to track that might have a a few used ones. They came out to the track with a used pump and hung out for a few hours. Andy changing the pump and he was back out on the track for the remainder of the day. Super nice people.



I had way too much fun again. That makes two weekends in a row on the track. Betzy is performing better than I had ever hoped. I now have over 3200 miles since I put her together. A bunch of that is really hard driving. I hit 124miles/hour on the back straight and still had a bunch left. I think that is about it for the year 2011.

It's time to prepare for the paint.

Gord

most of us "autocrossers" call it "autocross", motocross would be motorcycles...on dirt

It can be addictive but it takes a special kind of person to spend all day on a site to get 5 minutes of seat time in persuit of that one perfect run

I've never hti a Nashville event, maybe I can make it to one in the spring, I hope to get otu more next year, I haven't been to an event in cinci, lexingotn, or columbus in a couple of years

evildky wrote:most of us "autocrossers" call it "autocross", motocross would be motorcycles...on dirt

Sorry about that. Don't know what I was thinking.

Yea, what where you thinking Gord? Get it right, gezzz :P
Say a little prayer for my RB, waiting on a few hose ends to see if the motor is ok.

oh, and the little cv shaft issue, we call "flipping the tulip" although you tore your completely apart most of us just pop it off flip it over and smap it back together

boostedh23a1 wrote:Say a little prayer for my RB, waiting on a few hose ends to see if the motor is ok.

Sucks about the oil pump. I have been keeping up on your thread. Awsome job on the mods you have been doing yourself. I would not have attempted welding a pump. Also good info on the parts for the slave cylinder on trany...

evildky wrote:oh, and the little cv shaft issue, we call "flipping the tulip" although you tore your completely apart most of us just pop it off flip it over and smap it back together

The first attempt was made removing snap-ring and "flipping the tulip" ended up beating the living s*** out of the tulip to remove it from the shaft. Not quite sure why it did not "pop" off. Second attempt, dis-assembled the tulip and used a puller on the center part. A few extra minutes were necessary. Nothing major. Just my luck to get a stuck one. "smaping" it back together was just as easy.

Those Factory Five Daytona cars sound amazing don't they? We had one show up at our dyno day this year, sounded like an absolute beast. Looks like a fun day, any more thoughts to paint color?

I just figured if someone wanted to look more info on "flipping the tulip" a search wunder that topic might yield better results


FYI Pete Brock updated the daytona coupe suspension on the superfprmance "kit car" which is a shame because they sell only as complete rollers, and FF is a "kit" and they did their own updating just kinda cool to have the origional designer have a hand in the replica

BigTDogg (MA) wrote:Those Factory Five Daytona cars sound amazing don't they? We had one show up at our dyno day this year, sounded like an absolute beast. Looks like a fun day, any more thoughts to paint color?

Today it's orange...or copper...

I think they were Superformance with Roush racing engines. Nice to have a spare one..just in case.

Factory orange would be amazing IMHO.

The superperformance and FF look identical. Either way, an awesome dedicated track car.

they should look identical as they both are replicas fo the same car, but I seem to recall that the superformance is larger than the original and that the ff is closer in diminsion to the origional pete brock design, the structures are very different

I took betzy in for a dyno test today. I figured I should check up on the health of the RB. Also good to check air fuel ratios. I am still running stock boost at 9PSI. The open 3" exhaust / Greddy intake / and the big FMIC are about the only changes I have made.

Corey at Slowmotion was running the Dyno.



Simple bolt on rig. Wide band probe in the exhaust to measure AFR.



Two pulls. We set it up for 7500 engine RPM. 4th gear.



359WHP 283WTQ Very happy.




Here is video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsonYhciLCk

My AFR is too high. I need to make a correction to it, but otherwise...very happy.

Gord

gmac708 wrote: My AFR is too high. I need to make a correction to it, but otherwise...very happy.

like 10:1 too high?

All is looking good. Looks like you been combating those traction issues.

you mean 359 AHP 283 ATQ, that machine measures HP a the axle, no wheel
is this a common ratio fo tq to hp on the rb's? TH L28's always have more torque than HP (unless they have wierd turbo's), but then the L28 has more stroke, the RB26 has the stroke of the L24 an bore fo the L28

^ Yep. RB's tend to have less TQ than HP. RB redline is higher than a L28? I am figuring from HP=(TQ*RPM)/5252
Since torque is relatively flat, ideally it should be, then RPM is the only driving force to make HP figure higher than the TQ figure.

Also, I am suspecting and curious. The L28 had higher Compression Ratio than the rb26? RB26 CR is 8.5:1. And the turbo'd L28 CR was lower than the NA L28?

the L28 has more stroke, nto more CR, the L28 stroke is 79mm, the rb stroke is 73.7mm, more rod angle = more torque, it's also higher piston speed so I suspect the RB has a higher redline, a lot goes into CR, it's not just abotu displacment, it's also about head volume, gasket volumeand piston volume

the L6 came in a lot of flavors, the L24 started off with 9.1:1 CR and was later lowered to 8.7:1
the L26 had a cr of only 8.3:1, it was the inverse of the RB26, it shared the bore with the L24 but had the stroke of the L28 (stupid high rod angle)
The L28 used the longer stroke of the L26 but was bored out to the same bore as the RB26 and had a CR of 8.3:1 initially, it was lowered with a higher volume head in 79 to 7.4:1, and then raised with higher compression pistons in 81 to 8.5:1
the L28ET also introduced in 81 had the same 7.4:1 configuration found in the 79-80 n/a cars but with a revised cylinder head that allowed for bettter flow and better quench int he combustion chamber

many people run the "flat top block of the 81-83 n/a with early N42 heads for a 9.8:1, some even run the early L24 E31 head and get 9.5 to 1.5:1 CR depending on the gasket used

I think redline is supposed to be around 6500 on the L28's, although I ran my L24 up to 8k, and my L28ET at 7000, my new ballanced motor should be able to take 10kb ut the stock valve trail just can't keep up past 7500, thats next ont he to do list , the L24 is first limited by the weak spark (points) then it's a matter of floatig the valves

The RB26 is a direct evolution of the L6, the RB cylinder head even bolts on the L6 block, the oil passages are completely different, and of course the L6 timing chain is configured for a single cam, although datsun did make a few 432 models that came with the L20a (L24 with less stroke and less bore) with twin cam head, OSGiken and HKS both made aftermarket twin cam cross flow heads for the L6 just not marketed in the states

Suspicion resolved. Thanks. The reason why I was suspecting CR was diesels have that characteristic that higher CR means larger swept volume. And why you always see a HP lower than TQ. My truck stock is rated 250 HP and 500 TQ. But, they are not throttled either.

Essentially the stroke is like a crank handle, if you exert the same force with a longer arm you get more torque. I am sure L28 benefited from the longer stroke, even that the higher thrust loads from the higher rod angles. on side note: Higher rod ratio motors make great candidates for turbo charging, since the piston quickly approaches and leaves TDC. This makes the engine less detonation prone. RB26 is considered a high angle too with a rod ratio of 121.5/73.7 = 1.65

Since you mentioned rod angles, you are saying that the rod length remained constant during the changes.. L24 -> L28?

I have always thought the RB the direct evolution from the S20.

Note the cooling channel on the side of the block.

the SR20 is an evolution of the L4, the 2 liter L4 (L20) is basically an L24 minus 2 cylinders, and the L16 is basically the L24 minus 2 cylinders

as for rod length, no the L24 had longer rods (133 mm), L26 and L28's all had 130.3, most strokers use the longer rod with raised pin height to reduce rod speed and decrease rod angle

and I'm pretty sure the 2 cylinder you have pictured is the fj20, the sr places the cams over the valve's not beside them

Just to note, I edited my previous post.

Also note, I said S20, not SR20.

The fj20 was a 4 cylinder, picture above is 6 cylinder. What I have pictured is the S20 engine, the very engine from the original GTR, and found stock in some Z-cars:




From what I know about the S20 motor was that it was an design from Prince Motor Company before Nissan acquired it. And I gathered that Prince reverse engineered Mercedes engines.