2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

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crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:47 am

Hi Vstar

maybe i explained it wrong, during the test for fuse 3 the first thing i did was test the power on the red wire, as soon as battery is connected the red wire has power, then i moved to the fuse disconnecting the cluster again and brake light switch, watching to see if it maintained power on both sides, i found only power on one side but the red wire was still hot. when i pull the fuse the red wire goes cold, the dash stays lit up though and the switch for the rear defogger was on, making me think the dash is still powered up, also all the stuff that turns on when the battery cable is connected never turns off, you can actually hear the throttle control and other things click on or off when it loses power or is shut off. i waited a bit to see if it powered down but it never did. Now sitting there only one side of fuse 3 has power when the battery is plugged in but the whole dash is lit up and the fuel pump runs and the throttle plate and a couple things click on.


I just got curious about something, and i think this means something, this morning after unplugging the brake light switch and the cluster i no longer have power on both sides of fuse 3 with or without them plugged in and i now have power in acc on the key switch. i no longer have power on both terminals of fuse 46 and 47, i just went out and unplugged M14 on the passenger kick panel and the dash stays off until i cycle to the run position on the key but the radio comes on and can be turned on or off in acc mode on the key switch. when M14 is plugged in the dash is on all the time when unplugged the dash only lights up when in the run position on the key.
Last edited by crabi53263 on Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.


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VStar650CL
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:08 am

The red wire out of the switch can only get power two ways, either from the blue wire by way of the ignition switch or by back-powering from an ignition-fused circuit. If fuse 3 is now cold with the fuse pulled, either a) the ignition switch is still on in the off position or b) the power is coming from another ignition fuse that's hot when it should be cold. There are really no other possibilities.

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:14 am

I just got curious about something, and i think this means something, this morning after unplugging the brake light switch and the cluster i no longer have power on both sides of fuse 3 with or without them plugged in and i now have power in acc on the key switch. i no longer have power on both terminals of fuse 46 and 47, i just went out and unplugged M14 on the passenger kick panel and the dash stays off until i cycle to the run position on the key but the radio comes on and can be turned on or off in acc mode on the key switch. when M14 is plugged in the dash is on all the time when unplugged the dash only lights up when in the run position on the key. should i be testing what causes the blue wire to shut off with fuses? i know that was hot all the time also, until i unplug the M14 on the passenger kick panel.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:44 am

No, the blue wire is battery and is supposed to be hot all the time. The switch is easy to check, in Acc the brown wire should be hot, red and yellow should be cold, in On all three should be hot. If it's doing anything else then the switch has an issue.

If unplugging M14 kills the lights then the problem is in Body #2, which coincidentally also has the rear defogger that's acting weird. The defog doesn't get power on M14:B120, it's a fat red wire in M11:B106. However, in Body #2 it will run parallel with the BT supply wire back past the BT Unit. With M11 and M14 both disconnected, ohm between the fat red in B106 and the BT power wire in B120 (white on the Main side, light green on the Body #2 side). If that shows continuity then those two wires are chafed together someplace in the bundle.
Last edited by VStar650CL on Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:45 am

Vstar

something changed from doing this fuse test, i unplugged the brake light switch and a switch right next to it, and i unplugged the cluster, at some point i lost power on one side of fuse 3, yesterday i had power on both sides today after this test power on one side, still however the dash stays lit up all the time with the fuse in, only when i unplug M14 or pull fuse 27 does the dash stay off until the key is in and put in the run position. as soon as the battery is connected the fuel pump and multiple sensors etc under the hood turn on if M14 is plugged in and fuse 27 is in with both of them out the dash is off until key is in run position.

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:53 am

Vstar

I dont have a good source to tell me what B106 is, i am assuming from what im looking at its a single thicker red wire in a white plug thats all by itself no other wires with it,then runs into that right side harness, the M14 whit wire i can see on M14 i can just run an ohm meter across it and let you know what i see?

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:01 pm

Hey Vstar

Ok I disconnected the only red thicker wire on that kick panel, put a ohms test from that red thick wire to the green terminal on the plug and got 6.8 ohms. I get 6.8 ohms on red blue and light green on that plug. thats assuming the thicker red wire is the one i should be using, i dont have a chart showing me what the designations are but i do know im on the white on one side and light green on the other, the red wire is the only thick wire over there and it plugs in all by itself

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:57 pm

Hang tight and I'll find out the pin-count on M11:B106 so you can be certain. But if it is the right wire, 6.8 ohms is most likely the problem. The WD's don't show any battery supply into the BT except for the mic, but to make certain, repeat that measurement with the plugs pulled on the BT Unit. If nothing changes, you have a short between the BT supply and the defogger supply.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:01 pm

M11:B106 is 4 pins with a white shell.

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:42 pm

Vstar

thank you again, it is a 4 pin connector but only one pin is used and its for a larger red wire, i am just now working past the passenger rear door, pulling that harness looking for anything burnt or melted, i also started from the hatch back where the wire connects to the rear defogger itself, trying from both ends of the car as in the middle it branchs off under seats but the red wire follows that path on the left side all the way to the rear defogger. there is some very tight spots without pulling all seats to get into this harness so far i found nothing but im only part way through it. thank you for taking your time today, i know i got grief for not leaving this car alone today but its got me now, im on a quest to find this,

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:55 pm

you might need to strip the loom on the harness, but I think only along the doorsills between M11 and the BT Unit. The problem is most likely chafed insulation, and since the conductors are power-to-power, burnt spots aren't likely.

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:00 pm

Vstar

Ok, tried testing it again without the BT unplugged and i have no reading on the ohm meter, so i plugged it back in now i have no reading again on the ohm meter, I just did this test prior to stripping the shielding off looking for burnt or chaffed wires and can see nothing burnt or chaffed. but now the reading has changed? and i see no chaffing or burnt wires at least so far. this car is possessed, look at the fuse test this morning compared to yesterday, now within minutes of testing this circuit it went from 6.8 to nothing, and nothing on all 3 wires, last time i check the other couple right next to it and they tested 6.8 also, now no reading on the ohm meter. WTH lmao
I would assume seeing the chaffing on the red wire would be easiest so thats what im following and so far im at the passenger seat and nothing. I will pull this entire wire out lol, this car will not beat me.

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:23 pm

Vstar

I ran a quick test between the light green and the red on the body side of the plug, not the larger red wire which runs to the defogger but the red one two wires away from the light green, i see .8 ohms which looks like a loop between a switch, i still cannot get the same reading i had 25 minutes ago from the larger red wire to the light green wire. that reading is gone. i tried plugging the harness back in still doing the same thing. I will keep stripping wires, unless you have any other thoughts.

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:22 pm

Hey Vstar

I went from the front to the back and have been unable to find any chaffing on the red wire, I also tried checking the light green wire the same way by pulling it from the harness and just looking at it, i pulled the red wire back from the whole harness all the way except in the rear hatch, i peeled it back to look but did not see anything, lol that was a heck of a thing, lots of nooks and crannys to get into and look at this wire.
We know this thing only does this when the back of that right side is plugged in, we know we can stop it by fuse 27, we know we have power on the red wire all the time if the battery is connected, several tests revealed interesting results, first fuse test showed power on both sides of fuse s and power on both sides of fuse 46 and 47, we know the next day after running the test again only one side of the number 3 fuse and the number 46 and 47 fuse had power, we know i just ran an ohms test and found 6.8 ohms from the defrogger wire to the white wire, we know several minutes later after moving the wires a bit then re testing i found no reading, we know the main harness has been replaced, we now know that passenger side has been pulled and prodded and the red wire has been pulled away from most other wires, the light green i did not do that with all the passenger side harness but i could.
any ideas?

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:58 pm

Have you tried plugging it back in? If there's no reading between red and light green it may be that moving the furniture separated the responsible spots.

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:23 pm

Vstar

Yes i tried and was praying when I did lmao, I have been hoping for a unconsious repair this whole time. could the rear defrogger have fried the old IPDM and the one i put in? giving me the same problem? but i still dont know why that rear defogger would have been hot with the key off unless it was downstream i guess it could have been a result vs cause. is there an IPDM test i can run? could an IPDM do this?. this seems like its going to be something simple that i missed, im going to do both of these tests again tomorrow, i am going to redo the number 3 fuse test, im also going to run an ohms meter across the red and white, then im going to redo that fuse test.
pulling number 27 fuse shouldnt shut down the dash its going through that circuit, could a mic be doing this?

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:32 pm

Yep, the IPDM is definitely in control of the defogger, which seems to be on all the time, so maybe there's other stuff stuck on as well. The IP controls most of the power in the car downstream from the ignition key. The IP on an '08 will be plug-and-play, so you can raid the JY for one without having configuration issues. Just match the p/n. There are probably supersessions that will also fit, check NissanPartsDeal for that.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:34 pm

PS - You can run a static IPDM test by toggling the driver's door switch 10 times in a row, but it only tests certain things like fans, wipers, headlights. Unfortunately the defog isn't on the list, nor are a lot of other things.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:54 pm

It still bugs me that taking M14 loose causes the car to behave normally. There's probably other stuff back there that could be responsible for the backfeed, plus I'm 90% sure there's a crossover connector between Body #1 and Body #2. I'll try to look up the latter, but it might help to make a list of what's hot on the Main side of those kick panel connectors when they're hooked up and then unhooked, just like checking both sides of the fuses.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:11 pm

Nope, if there's a crossover connection on the '08 I can't find it. I did stumble across a bulletin for connector corrosion causing weird cross-connection issues on '07~'09 Versas, NTB09-017. It actually calls for replacing the Main Harness (which you already did) and one or both Body Harnesses. Do you have any crummy-looking connectors on either of the Body Harnesses?

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:24 pm

Vstar
On the driver side kick panel i had some minor corrosion that wiped away with a rag, i cleaned it with dryer then inspected the plugs on both sides, both plugs looked very clean so initially i left them unplugged just to rule that out, at one point i had the entire back of the car unplugged except that one plug on the passenger kick panel M14 i think its called and it still did it. when i started getting into this i figured i had to check every connector in the front of the car and work my way back, i was hoping to find some kind of visual explanation but found nothing. I also went through most of the stuff under the hood, i unplugged the alternator then its power wire, same with starter, i cleaned the grounds under the hood ran an ohms test on the negative battery cable, at one point i stripped the cover off the main engine harness and followed it through the engine compartment had everything out of there looking for chaffing or burn marks found nothing,i also unplugged the ABS module no change, i unplugged the fuel pump, no change, i unplugged right side headlights no change dont remember if i did the left side headlights, i unplugged the rad fan no change,

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:29 pm

VStar650CL wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:54 pm
It still bugs me that taking M14 loose causes the car to behave normally. There's probably other stuff back there that could be responsible for the backfeed, plus I'm 90% sure there's a crossover connector between Body #1 and Body #2. I'll try to look up the latter, but it might help to make a list of what's hot on the Main side of those kick panel connectors when they're hooked up and then unhooked, just like checking both sides of the fuses.

Plugged in its white and blue, unplugged its blue only, so white is coming back with power or a signal,i will check that again tomorrow but i remember doing that one trying to figure out what the white wire was.

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:32 pm

VStar650CL wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:32 pm
Yep, the IPDM is definitely in control of the defogger, which seems to be on all the time, so maybe there's other stuff stuck on as well. The IP controls most of the power in the car downstream from the ignition key. The IP on an '08 will be plug-and-play, so you can raid the JY for one without having configuration issues. Just match the p/n. There are probably supersessions that will also fit, check NissanPartsDeal for that.
think i should try another IPDM?, my junk yard guy only had the one versa, but i can get one some where if you think that makes sense, thats why i was asking about the test, hoping i could rule out two IPDMs with the same exact problem, I am using JY parts so its possible

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:55 pm

The Ip makes sense, but not two with identical problems. White wire in which connector? M14:B120?

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:47 pm

VStar650CL wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:55 pm
The Ip makes sense, but not two with identical problems. White wire in which connector? M14:B120?
white wire on the main harness side of M14, on the body harness side its light green

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:48 pm

Hmm, after an exhaustive search of the WD's I can't find any blue wire on M14 that should have battery power, and the only blue I did find is a keyless antenna wire which shouldn't have juice. Can you post a drawing or pic of the wire position? Tomorrow I'm going to go through all the other connectors in the RH footwell and isolate all the ones that have battery juice, I may ask you to unpin or cut some.

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:05 am

Vstar

I can snap a pic with my phone would that work? can i upload that in here? I will try what ever you think Vstar, I am stumped, this car does not make sense. i will leave that right side harness open until we find this,

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:43 am

Vstar

here is pics of the harness plug on the main harness side and the body harness side, the light blue is main harness side the white is main harness side, the red is body harness side the light green is body harness side, these two wires go hot when plugged in, it seems like blue sends out power and power comes back through white on main harness side. on body harness side red goes to the back with power and light green seems to come back with power
Attachments
IMG_2078.jpg
harness plug
IMG_2076.jpg
harness plug
IMG_2075.jpg
harness plug
IMG_2074.jpg
harness plug

crabi53263
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:59 am

Vstar

Ran the number 3 fuse test this morning, there is only power on one side of fuse 3, i checked fuse 46 and 47, power on both terminals this morning yesterday they went to only one side of the fuse was hot the day before both sides were hot.
The M14 plug the light blue wire in the pictures is hot with it unplugged battery on key out and the white has no power, once plugged in the white now has power, so it looks like power is going out through light blue and coming back through white, this white and blue is main harness side, the body side harness the blue wire turns into red and the white into light green

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:03 am

Yep, that sky-blue to red has to be the power source for the backfeed. I just went through every WD, and it's the only unswitched battery source on all 4 connectors. Makes sense, because it's fed by fuse 27. There are only 3 wires on the ignition/accessory side that could be feeding it back. One is the power socket wire on M13, it's orange on both sides. The other two are right next to the SB-R on M14, the white-light green which you say is going hot and the violet-blue next to it, which is the Acc wire to the BT. Since LG goes hot even with the BT Unit disconnected, it means someplace in Body#2, the red and light green wires are shorted together. First, make sure there isn't a bent pin in M14:B120, and also that there isn't corrosion forming a bridge. If it isn't the connector, then they're chafed somewhere inside Body #2. You may need to look close, chafing can be hard to spot, but it will be there somewhere. Or you might just want to cut both wires and route new ones, they both run straight from B120 to the BT Unit with no other branches.


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