2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

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VStar650CL
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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:10 am

Got the VIN. I presume that BCM p/n is a typo, 284B2-EL02A doesn't even show up as a good part, but 284B1-EL02A or -EL02B show up as right for the car. The ECM is problematic, because as I said, they can't be identified from the labels. Those are base Hitachi part numbers, the actual ECM part number depends on the program and is stored in firmware. It's entirely possible that the ECM isn't shutting itself off properly and that's keeping the BCM awake, we won't know that without reinstalling the two original parts.


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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:08 am

Hi Vstar

when i swapped the ECU same exact condition happens, everything is on as soon as the battery cable is put back on, now the security is flashing also, i put the donor ECU back in the security light stops flashing,
im missing something simple i think but no clue what, fuse 27 is also battery back up i think and thats the fuse that makes everything shut off, it will start and stop with fuse 27 pulled but the accessory spot on the key switch has no power until i put the key to run position and no dash lights come on until the run position, with fuse 27 in and the battery cable put on everything is on in every position

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:23 am

Let me see what I can find out about what's powered indirectly off 27.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:10 am

This is too weird. Fuse 27 is battery, so it can't be back-powering anything on the ignition or accessory side. The PD diagram shows it going only two places, the radio and the bluetooth module. The BT is under the finisher over the RH rear wheel well, so that means the issue could be in the Body #2 Harness and not Main. Try popping the RH kick panel and unplug connector M14, it's a 24-pin wire-to-wire connector. That's where fuse 27 egresses from the Main Harness to the Body #2 Harness to reach the BT. If the problem disappears then try unplugging the BT to see if the issue is in the wiring or the module.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:38 am

Vstar

I have tried that already,i pulled the entire rear hatch plastics out unplugged both the BT module and while i was back there unplugged the base speaker and satelite module in the rear hatch, then reconnected that 24 pin connector and the issue is still there, so i started pulling that entire harness, i pulled carpets and all trim unplugged the door jamb stuff and still the same thing, unplugged everything is off, plugged in everything is on even with the BT module, satelite module and base speaker with booster in it unplugged, same thing, So i jumped the wire that goes out and the wire that comes back trying to eliminate everything else back there, when jumped everything is on again, so only two wires connected in that plug and it powers everything, with that plug unplugged and a couple jumpers just on the wire going out with power and coming back with power.with everything unplugged i have no clue how power was coming back from the rear of the car, makes no sense, i noticed there is another plug that if i leave unplugged i have no fuel gauge, i left that unplugged because it has made no difference. i have also tried it with the radio removed and still the same thing, i noticed today with the fuse 27 unplugged it will save radio memory when turning it off it will start and run and shut off but no power in the accessory position on the key switch

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:49 am

Hey Vstar,

Thank you for saying this is two weird, i have been trying to wrap my head around this for now about 2 weeks, allot of that time i was waiting for the main harness, but while i waited i fixed her suspension stuff and her brakes, i figured when i started i would spend up to a max of 500 bucks on her car just as a gift from someone who gives a crap about other folks, i even found another bumper cover hers is cracked to heck, i cleaned and shampooed the inside trying to make it nice for her again, plugging that replacement harness in and finding the problem was still there baffled me, all i can think is Nissan is doing something other manufacturers dont do, and i dont know about it, im not a Nissan expert in any way but i have done complete restores on Chevelles and numerous others along with building some crazy 396 engines and 454, 383 strokers, I have done some crazy stuff and to have this little car baffle me is insane.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:25 pm

Hey Vstar

This might mean something not sure, On the main harness side the blue and white wires have power, they turn a different color exiting the other side of the plug heading into that rear passenger side harness, i have yet to figure out what those wires go to,

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:35 pm

Any clues are good clues. Let me look into that.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:07 pm

Vstar

It seems to me and im probly wrong but it seems like the blue wire goes out that harness and comes right back through the white wire, i have had the entire back of the car unplugged on that side and still when plugged in power comes back through that blue and white wire

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:32 pm

Hey Vstar

would running an ohms test on each wire heading to the back of the car show me a switch or circuit thats on when it should be off?, i tried that once but not knowing what wires i should be tracing back i was just guessing, and testing it the other way through the main harness also, something shorted or something on when it should be off is happening. It almost seems to me it has to be one or the other, something on would still have to be back feeding to power the entire ignition system, something shorted would be its direct route to back feed. I never seen anything like this before, but i have seen other folks post this problem only none ever posted if they fixed it, a couple was folks who added an aftermarket stereo and wired it wrong, but none of that has happened with this car its all stock

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:46 pm

Yah, radios are a [email protected]#&% that way. We once had an NV that a used car place tried to eliminate the navi and install a base radio, except the backlighting circuit and CAN wiring were different. It would light up the dash like a Christmas tree every time you turned on the parking lamps, because the whole CANbus was going to 12V.

I'm pretty sure there's a crossover connection between Body #1 and Body #2 Harnesses underneath the console. I'll look into that too.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:03 pm

I cant thank you enough Vstar, this started out being just a good deed and has turned into a conquest, i cant let go of this thing, Its stuck in my head now, I have to know why and what is causing this lol.
I really do want to fix this car up for her, shes 80, shes salt of the earth and when she found out i was going to try and get it going for her shes been smiling ever since.
Now its turned into a 4 week insanity fest lol.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:26 pm

crabi53263 wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:03 pm
I cant thank you enough Vstar, this started out being just a good deed and has turned into a conquest, i cant let go of this thing, Its stuck in my head now, I have to know why and what is causing this lol. I really do want to fix this car up for her, shes 80, shes salt of the earth and when he found out i was going to try and get it going for her shes been smiling ever since. Now its turned into a 4 week insanity fest lol.
Automotive electrical issues are for bulldogs, no other personality type should go near them. Even leaving out the goodness of the deed, I'm happy to help anyone who's willing to grab and shake a problem until the answer rattles out. ;)

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:18 pm

I don't see anything that should be funneling power back to the ignition through M14, and you said disconnecting it didn't make a difference. So the answer probably isn't on that leg. Let's try to structure this by finding out exactly what has power and what doesn't, that should give us clues about what could be shorted and what can't. This will take you awhile, but with the key off, get out your test light and find each fuse that has power in the F/R box, IPDM and fusebox. Pull each fuse that has power and see if there's voltage on only one terminal or on both terminals. Make a note of any fuse that has power on both sides even when pulled. Then pop the ignition switch connector and see exactly which terminals have power and which don't, and note whether pulling the ignition switch makes any difference. Between those two things, I should at least have enough info to rule some circuits in or out.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:51 pm

Vstar

Thank you, I will probly get this done tomorrow, if not it wont be until Monday, But I will let you know what i find, I have kinda done this once but i never tested both terminals of each fuse, great idea, I know the only fuse that stopped it was 27. and i have tested each wire on the ignition switch and i think two were hot plugged in and unplugged. I know unplugging the ignition switch does nothing that one i have tried but will also do it again. I will make notes of my findings shortly and post them in here, maybe it will at least narrow this down.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:55 pm

crabi53263 wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:51 pm
I will make notes of my findings shortly and post them in here, maybe it will at least narrow this down.
Yep, we definitely have a power "leak", and finding out which circuits are receiving the leak should narrow which circuits could be sourcing it. Checking both sides of the fuses accomplishes that, any normal fuse should show power on only one side when pulled.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:01 am

hey Vstar

Here is the fuse listing with number on all fuses, from what im seeing the number system starts inside then follows outside so here goes, i used a wiring schematic to try and make sure numbers are correct per Nissan
inside left kick panel fuse box, that number 3 fuse covers a bunch of stuff, 46 and 47 dont make much sense to me, 3 lists a ton of stuff, i had this harness plugged in with only the bulkhead and dash cluster plugged in it did the same thing, im pretty sure my way of testing it is flawed lol,
1. one pin hot
2 one pin hot
3. both pins hot *
4. one pin hot
5. blank
6. one pin hot
7. one pin hot
8. one pin hot
9,10,11,12 all blank
13. one pin hot
14. one pin hot
15,16,17,18,19,20 one pin hot
IPDM
32, 33, one pin hot
34. both pins off*
35. both pins off*
36. one pin hot
37. both pins off
38. one pin hot
39. one pin hot
40, 41 both pins off
42,43,44,45,. one pin hot
46. both pins hot
47. both pins hot
48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,. one pin hot
56. both off
fusible link box,
24, 25, 26, blank
27. one pin hot
28. one pin hot
29. blank
30. one pin hot
31. one pin hot

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:29 pm

Hey Vstar

I forgot this part, the ignition switch the blue wire and red wire have power, plugged in or unplugged. when i pull fuse 3 the red wire on the switch loses power, when i pull fuse 3 blue wire on the switch stays hot. when i pull the switch nothing changes

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:08 pm

Now we have a tree to bark up, let me see what I can find.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:29 pm

Preliminarily, 46~47 are both the rear defogger (parallel fuses) but they're battery and not ignition, so we can rule them out as a direct source of back-powering. Indirect, I dunno, maybe. The red wire in the ignition switch is the tipoff, it should be going cold with the switch off. Something on fuse 3 is definitely shorting battery power back into the fuse. You're right that there's a ton of stuff, but the fact that you changed the Main Harness gives us an advantage because we know it won't be a wiring problem there. That means it's probably a bad component someplace, perhaps a collapsed relay. I'll pull it up system by system and look for likely suspects.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:01 pm

These all lead to the same place. There are only two likely suspects. One is a collapsed brake pedal switch, the other is a melted diode inside the cluster that's connecting batt to ignition. Disconnect both of them and see if fuse 3 goes cold.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:13 pm

Hi Vstar

Thank you again, i may not get to these until Monday, now this makes sense, I know i tried a test cluster also, i do not remember if i waited long enough for it to time out, im pretty sure i unplugged the brake light switch at one point but dont know if i waited for it to time out and was not checking fuses when i tested either of them. i was just watching for the dash to kick off. DANG i hope thats it, im going to feel like a schmuk for doing everything i already did but if this fixes it, shes going to be a happy person and I get my garage back lol, this car has been in there a while now

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:47 pm

If it's the cluster it would never kick off, and there's a good chance it is the cluster. Battery and Ignition power are diode-anded into the cluster supply, as you can see on most of the WD's showing fuse 3. If the two blocking diodes on the ignition side melt short and no longer block, battery juice will flow through the forward-biased diode on the battery input, through the shorted blockers, and straight back to fuse 3, which the bus will then distribute to back-power the rest of the ignition fuses. Here's a diagram:

Blown Diodes.png
Blown Diodes.png (33.77 KiB) Viewed 75 times

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:39 pm

Hey Vstar

That makes allot of sense, my only worry is I already swapped the dash cluster once it didnt make any change so i gave it back to the junk yard guy i can get it back though.
Would i have had to wait for the timer to kick off before it powered down? or would the door being open have kept it on? Im going to go back at it Monday, unless i get free time late tomorrow lol, I will unplug both of these watching for the fuse to go to power on one side or shut off.
Thank you again Sir

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:54 pm

crabi53263 wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:39 pm
Would i have had to wait for the timer to kick off before it powered down? or would the door being open have kept it on? Thank you again Sir
You're most welcome. The door being open might well have kept it alive. This might be a "cascade" failure too, since diodes don't usually melt without some sort of overload. Often it's over-voltage from sparks, that's why reversed jumpstarts are so destructive, but it can also be from over-current if there's a short on a PCB or in the wires. In this case it's possible the original failure was in the harness and it cascaded into the cluster.

Even if this theory is wrong, fuse 3 doesn't supply anything except the cluster, shifter and BT Unit. So we've definitely narrowed down the stuff that needs checking!

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:19 pm

Speaking of that, if the theory is wrong, try pulling all the connectors in the RH kick panel again. The BT Unit supply runs through there, and while we've effectively ruled out the Main Harness, we haven't ruled out Body #2. The BT also gets its mic supply through the roof connector, so you might also want to pull M1:R1 underneath the righthand A-pillar trim.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:35 am

hey Vstar

I know i said i wouldnt look until Monday but i couldnt help it, so i ran the test two ways, first watching for the red wire on the ignition switch to lose power when either the brake light switch or cluster was unplugged, when i unplugged them one at a time the red wire on the ignition switch stayed hot. I then ran the test on the fuse, with the brake light switch and dash cluster unplugged the number 3 fuse NOW only has power on 1 terminal, however dash stays lit. plugged all back in with cluster plugged in and brake light switch plugged in now fuse 3 only has power on one side, with them unplugged it now only has power on one side with it plugged it fuse 3 only has power on one side. it had power on both sides yesterday i checked each fuse twice to make sure. this is not making any sense. i then waited to see if it would time out, it does not seem to time out. i waited about 20 seconds.so just for the heck of it i tested fuse 46 and fuse 47, NOW only one side of those has power also, yesterday both sides had power. lol now im confused
Happy Easter or Happy holiday

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:45 am

Hey Vstar

When i pull those connectors it shuts it all off, the car will start and shut off like normal but no power in accessory on the ignition switch, and when i put the key in nothing happens until the run position, the dash and everything shuts off, when i put the key in and turn it everything comes on but only in the run position, its like i killed accessory mode on the switch, thats also what fuse 27 seems to kill is all the accessory stuff, which is why i thought that might also be the battery back up. i had been thinking it was in the right side so i had it all unplugged, only way to get accessory to have power was in the run position. so it effectively kills all that. i then jumpered just the blue and white wires in a loop, everything is on all the time. it seemed to me like something from the back of the car was doing this, i unplugged the BT the satelite the base speaker system in the driver side rear hatch panel, i unplugged the lights. i did not see a mic back there, but i may have missed it.

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby crabi53263 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:46 am

Vstar

I also tried it with the shifter unplugged and it didnt seem to change anything, although i didnt test it using number 3 fuse, everything stayed lit up,

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Re: 2008 Versa SL, wont shut off even with key out

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:36 am

No, the mic is up front fed through the roof harness connector at M1. I don't think that's terribly important, there's power through the connector but it's battery and shouldn't be capable of back-powering anything. Everything else to the BT Unit goes through M14 in the kick panel, so if separating M14 doesn't affect it, the BT and Body #2 are vindicated. However, to prove anything, you must separate M14 where Main connects to Body #2. Just unplugging the BT proves little or nothing.

I'm not sure how you tested anything in the cluster if you say, "everything stayed lit up" but you didn't test fuse #3. Do you mean the radio? With the cluster disconnected, if the car starts and shuts off normally, then the cluster is causing the problem. Since there's nothing much to light up with the cluster out, how did you check anything if not checking #3?


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