2002 QX4 Intelligent Cruise Control. Discussion on solving ASCD issues

A forum for the legendary Nissan Pathfinder and Infiniti QX4.
SethardQX4
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Car: 2003 Infiniti QX4

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Shoot! That sucks the latest didn't work.
The connector shape on the hitachi models looks to be a little different to my eye. I just purchased a 235N from a fx35. Will update with how it pans out. Fingers crossed.


brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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SethardQX4 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:28 am
Shoot! That sucks the latest didn't work.
The connector shape on the hitachi models looks to be a little different to my eye. I just purchased a 235N from a fx35. Will update with how it pans out. Fingers crossed.
I am curious to know how this goes. Waiting.....impatiently to learn more about your findings

SethardQX4
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Car: 2003 Infiniti QX4

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The sensor from the fx35 came last night and I plugged it in and got the same dtc 20 code. Now I'm left wondering if the sensor i got is bad, or if I have some other issue. Going to try and do some further diagnostics this weekend.

Any tips I should before I start trouble shooting/ testing the resistance specs per EL-322-EL-323? I haven't done any electrical work before, but the manual seems pretty easy to follow.

The DTC codes that were firing with old sensor were 20, 31, 103, so I'm not sure if maybe my problem goes deeper than the sensor.

Interestingly, the sensor looks identical to the old one, except I believe it mounts upside down in the fx35 (stickers were on opposite side). Also, I noticed the sensor I am replacing is a g8e-227N.

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Well, at least you are down to 1 code.
First, make sure that the radar connector is plugged in fully. It shouldn't separate even if you tug on it.
Next, if that checks out, follow the FSM and measure the resistance at pins 3 and 6 at the radar connector (vehicle side).
After that, you can pull the carpeting and plastic cladding out on the drive's side in the cargo hatch to verify continuity and voltage at the controller.

Let us know how it goes!

Out of curiosity, did you pull the radiator grille out while swapping the sensors or just use from good ol' brawn power pulling the mounting bracket out?

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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I see they have removed the FSM's. That will make it pretty hard to do comparisons.

Sethard, did the 227N ever work for you?

SethardQX4
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Car: 2003 Infiniti QX4

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Rockwood wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:42 pm
I see they have removed the FSM's. That will make it pretty hard to do comparisons.

Sethard, did the 227N ever work for you?

I just purchased the QX4, but I assume this was the original unit that at one point worked. The second owner had it from 50k onward and said he never did anything with the cruise/never used it. Its a pain about the FSM's. I did find the fx35 one pretty easily through google.

In response to brickbox above, I never fully installed the fx35 sensor, just plugged it in on top of old one to check the codes. Going to do a more thorough crack at it this weekend.

brickbox
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Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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If the 227s work, in theory then the 235s should also work. I am curious to know how it goes before I dump more money.
I think its a PITA that we can't just convert the ICC to regular ASCD/cruise control.

Out of curiosity, when the sensor arrived, was it packaged properly and completely insulated? Or was it just wrapped in packaging paper inside the shipping box?

SethardQX4
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Car: 2003 Infiniti QX4

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Didn't have any luck with the 235 sensor I purchased. I'm left wondering if I
a. got a bad sensor,
b. there is another problem somewhere in the system,
c. the 235 simple isn't compatible.
The only diagnostic I was able to successfully complete was the resistance going in to the sensor (62, passed).

The new sensor ended up triggering the 20, 103 dtc codes (same as old one).

The sensor arrived decently packed in bubble wrap, and the seller said it was tested, but I'm dubious (anyone know how to test the sensor itself without having it run in a working system?).

Not sure what my next move will be.

-S

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Did you try checking for the voltage at the controller in the trunk? If it checks out, then the sensor is bad.
They usually have no way to see if its good or not except it powers on/off I am assuming.

Can you return this one and get another 235?

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Chaps, I decided to gamble on a used sensor I was able to get my hands on for not a lot of money. It came off a 2004 FX35 (G8e-235N)......I did an initial plug test yesterday night. It works! I didnt check the adaptive portion of it - but cruise seemed to function. I plan to install it in today or tomorrow with the washers idea that Rockwood had suggested a while ago.

Confirms my hypothesis - 225N and 235N are interchangeable. Cheap sensors abound :naughty:
More to come.....

SethardQX4
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Car: 2003 Infiniti QX4

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That's awesome! I guess I'll give a different one a shot and hope my first fix attempt was just a bunk sensor. Look forward to an update on how the drive test goes.

-S

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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That is good! Try measuring resistance across pins 3 and 6 and lets see if you can tell a good sensor from a bad sensor just by doing that. It would be good to see if there are different resistances between the different sensors as well - it might help explain codes to some extent.

Be thankful you don't have a Tesla with autopilot!

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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So I got the radar in! Ended up breaking the little rubber housing in which the up-down adjustment nut's bearing sits :mad:

Anywho, its all in. I measured the resistances and didn't find any difference between the "original" radar that my car came with vs. this one. The original is a G8E-225N and this is a G8E-235N. Are these radars failing on their communication side then? Which is why the resistances are coming out to be the same?

I tried the washer method for offsetting the left to right bend in the bracket. Turns out, you can't get more than 2 flat washers in there. Even with those 2, I had to use a mallet to force the bracket on to the bolt that's on the center support. I was able to get the bolt in the lower mounting hole and the nut on the passenger side bolt. No chance of getting the nut onto the center bolt :rolleyes:

Anyways, I took her out for a test drive. She doesn't to be able to detect any cars/SUVs :chuckle: Doesn't matter if I pull up right behind them and then make a lane change. NADA
As for semis, it still sees them in the right lane (like the previous 3 failed radars I got off eBay) but its relatively better. I tried putting my driver's side on the shoulder while passing and it would not detect the semi.

3 learning points:
1. Adding the 2 spacers seems to have helped a little bit - at least it wont auto brake for every vehicle detected.
2. Getting perfect alignment seems nearly impossible unless you go to the dealership. As mentioned in one of my posts earlier in this thread, those monkeys already ruined one for me. So not going back.....
3. G8E-225N is compatible with G8E-22N and G8E-235N. My theory based on this would be the higher numbers are back compatible. Perhaps the G8E-237N is also usable? But it's unlikely to work the other way i.e. using a 225N in a FX35.

EdBwoy
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It's been a while since I checked in. I wish I had earlier, since someone mentioned seeking an 06 M45 sensor.
You guys have made quite a lot of progress deciphering the ins and outs of the system. Congrats.


Brickbox, if I understand your situation, you now have a working sensor, it just seems to acknowledge taller profiles on the right lane, correct?
I can't clarify this, but if you felt froggy enough to take this leap, maybe a disassembly to investigate the internals would help? Approximately how high off the ground are the sensors in the SUVs compared to the sedans? How much plastic overhang is there to be cleared?
I ask this after skimming over the technical bulletin (thanks for the link btw)
I believe that the sensors are at different heights on the vehicles, and according to the bulletin are aligned to different offsets from center (Q45 rightfully so seems to take the centerline point of reference) and also reference to the adjustment tool at different depths (more of a modern/ older model issue it seems)

Is it possible that your sensor & bracket combo is aiming the beam (whether physically or digitally by default) way to the right as someone alluded to, as well as a little too high since the sedans are mounted a little lower and have to beam right+up to see others?
Pardon me if I get the positions wrong, I know I have seen an R50 with the ICC but I am having trouble locating a picture at this moment. Maybe a frontal picture of your car would help.


I had an issue with the sensor of a newer sedan not picking up non-semis and randomly picking up cracks in the road. It's like it was aimed too high and too low at the same time. I suppose this was after an accident that somehow "scattered its brain".
I also assume most parted out sensors you would buy online would be from cars in some sort of accident - either impact or god forbid, water damage - either way, not ideal for electronics from what I know.
I had a dealer realign my original sensor and all seemed to work well. this is the link in which I shared my experience
Also remember that to sense vehicles, the other vehicle has to be in some relative motion as well. A stationary vehicle is unlikely to be acknowledged, if your speed will still allow you to even engage cruise.


On the housekeeping stuff:
1. Would you still like me to label the thread as SOLVED? Either way, I am considering making it a sticky for the sheer amount of info that people like you and I (who like every feature working in our autos no matter the age) would find invaluable.

2. When posting pictures from IMGUR, to make them display here, I use the BBCode from the list of options. That is the forum-friendly one.

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Thanks! I think I accomplished what the original intent of this thread was i.e. have working adaptive cruise control and understand how the system works. We also established the ability to use other radar p/n#s (227N & 235N with possibility to use 237N).
In terms of the aiming, I have been messing with the setting.
1. For the vertical alignment (up & down) -> the alignment bolt with the hex head gives a coarse enough adjustment where I can pick up vehicles of all sizes. I purposely have it aligned very high (if you put your head parallel to the radar [engine off/key out - DONT LOOK AT THE RADAR LASER WHEN IT'S POWERED ON!], then the plastic cladding on the top is about flush with the center plastic "line" that's on the lower radiator grille.
2. For the horizontal alignment (left to right) -> my last 3 radars would pick up vehicles on the exit ramp if I were cruising along in the right lane. Now, those radars came off a Q45 and M45. This one is off a FX35. Additionally, like I mentioned in my previous post, I added 2 flat washers. Adding a 3rd washer makes it impossible to get the bracket in.

Combination of all of this has fixed the radar to a certain extent. It does not pick up any vehicles on the exit ramp if I am in the right lane. The vertical alignment allows me to engage cruise and yet not have to be bothered with the car braking for every vehicle on the road. The only problem is the semis. I have tried with passing a Suburban and it was not detected. However, the system detects every semi without a fail.

As you mentioned in your post in the thread on your car, these are nannies/conveniences and not necessarily driver aids. I would have liked it to be partially semi autonomous, but one can only dream :biggrin:

Taking it to the dealership might make the system almost near perfect, but they already ruined one of the previous radars. I don't really feel like giving one of those pretty boy service advisors (sometimes I wonder how much of the hourly rate goes to these guys for their pressed shirts and ties vs. to the actual mechanics) more hard earned money only for them to ruin this one too.

This is the only thread I believe where this much progress has been made. And yes, I want every thing to work on my car just like when it was new. I refuse to temper my expectations just because its an '02 creeping up on 160k miles ;)
Now, if only someone told me how to add the heated windshield option....

I say its about time we added "SOLVED" to the title!

P.S: I'll try to get a picture of the radar on my R50 later today or tomorrow.

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Update - I got the amber cruise light 3 times over a 60 miles trip coming back home. Had no issues while driving to work.
The first time was after about 40 miles. DTC 20 and 103. Reset and got DTC 103 within 5 miles. Reset it again and I didnt get DTC103 for another 15 miles. I was able to reset it again and will check it out later today.
Connector at the radar at front of the vehicle seems solid - I was able to tug on it and it did not separate.

I must admit.....never before have I wanted to have regular cruise control. This generation of ICC is just to finicky :tisk:

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Well - rats! I got the amber light again during the morning commute. Each time, it was about 15 miles intervals. Odd thing is, I will be cruising along. It will error out and illuminate the amber light. I can turn the vehicle off, reset it and get it to display "55" and go on my way for 15 miles and then rinse and repeat.
Think I need to order another unit off eBay.....again. :facepalm:

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Further updates. Got radar #8 from a 2005 FX35 (radar itself is OCt 2004).
Image 1 is of radar #7 that was installed in the original QX4 bracket.
Image

Following image of radar #8 jury rigged to sit in the vehicle. The two capturing bolts on either side are in TIGHT!!!
Hence, the professional installation job with zip ties :gapteeth:
Image

Test drove about 30 miles. No issues. Keeping fingers crossed this is it.

SethardQX4
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Car: 2003 Infiniti QX4

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I also have some exciting news. I was able to stop by a huge Nissan salvage yard in Rancho Cordova, CA today and pick up an fx35 sensor for cheap (actually went there for a new rear door that was bashed in and they happen to have a bunch of sensors).
They let me test it before I bought it, and I couldn't believe it when I finally pulled a 55 and no amber light! I installed it straight in to the old bracket without any adjustments and took it for a quick spin for a few exits and it seems to be working properly! Was picking up cars ahead of me in my lane and everything. I'm cautiously optimistic (brickbox's posts have properly prepared me for the possibility of zombie amber light). I'm wondering if your bracket got knocked out of wack?? I think the sensors should be oriented in the same direction between models (straight ahead). Will follow up after more extensive testing. Current mood is elated though.

brickbox
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Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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That's awesome! Great to hear. My zip tied FX35 sensor has performed well over 200 miles so far. Being cautiously optimistic here that this could be it. However, I can't get it to detect anything straight ahead. So I have it just vertically aligned all the way to the top. So it basically just runs like regular cruise control but is still tied to the wiper speed and yaw sensors (ICC disabled when the wiper is set to medium or high and slows the vehicle down if its detects too much body roll).

I think you might be on to something here about the bracket. The back portion of the bracket on my car is bent which causes the radar to "look" right. Can you confirm if you bracket is perfectly straight i.e. the back piece of the bracket is parallel side to side of the car and the other two sides (passenger side and driver side of the bracket) are perpendicular and run straight (from front to back)?

If so, then I gotta get me a new bracket. Also, I might need your help with getting a new radar the next time you are out at that junkyard :chuckle:

SethardQX4
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Car: 2003 Infiniti QX4

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Just completed my first trip with the ICC in full effect. The G8E-235N sensor from an fx35 did the trick for me. Cruised for about 2.5 hours with really impressive results. I kept the follow distance on the longest setting and the cruise worked great. Only one false positive on a curve, and picked up everything that came in front of me in my lane. I think the calibration might be slightly off as it did get pretty close to the cars in front of me at times (always a safe distance, but not as long as I would expect at the longest setting).
I'm pretty stoked to have it working as I was on the edge of throwing in the towel last week.
I'll double check the orientation of my bracket, but I'm pretty sure it squares up exactly with the radiator/grill. I can post some pictures when I have my time. I wouldn't expect a new bracket be difficult to track down at a junkyard though.

Also, throughout this process I have acquired one extra broken G8e-235N and still have my original g8e-226n sensor. If anyone has any suggestions for performing an autopsy on these dead sensors I'd be down to open them up and try and see whats going on in there (or send them off to someone who might be interested in diagnosing them).

-S

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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Brickbox, a bent bracket would explain your always aimed to the right problem. Nothing a big hammer can't fix if you pull the bracket out. Also, you can drill out the mounting hole in the side of the bracket where you need to do aiming adjustments so that you can get the bolts to screw in. A little slop in the mounting hole won't matter once you tighten the bolt.

Sethard, you might try lowering the aim of your sensor a little - half turn or so - per the FSM and see if your sensor recognizes cars a little sooner. As I mentioned earlier, the distances that the sensor sees other cars are in the service manual, so you should be able to gauge whether you are close to normal operation.

You guys did a great job figuring out the 235 sensors would work! Sensor interchangability probably applies to most other Infiniti models as well. But I don't think that is documented anywhere except this thread!

Seth - just a guess - there were bad capacitors coming out of China in the early 2000's. Several computer motherboard makers had that problem, as well as some monitors / TVs. So if you opened up the 226, that is what I would look for first. If you do open it up, post a couple of good closeup pictures just for a look see. But no one fixes these - I don't think circuit diagrams are available.

brickbox
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Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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You must be right....a bent bracket must be causing all the issues. But this car has never been in a front end collision. So makes me wonder how it got bent.....
Current radar has been running good for the 1000 miles or so.

brickbox
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Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Part of my updates, it been about 3500 miles so far and ICC still runs! Fingers crossed....

brickbox
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Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Completed a 3,000 miles trip way out North East. ICC is still running. I did notice a few interesting attributed though:
1. If you have cruise set to a certain speed and don't follow it - the system starts to error (no amber light, just the ICC sign starts rapidly flashing with a black dot). So for example: If I am going 79mph while the system is set to 75mph, the ICC system will display this odd behavior. The system seems to reset by just turning it off and then back on.

2. Keeping the cruise "on" without having a speed set and driving extended periods ( like more than 50 miles) will also cause the same rapid flashing as before. This one was a bit odd though. The only way to get out of this error mode was to turn off, key out and then re-start the car.

Oddly complicated system, but it has been working so far....

EdBwoy
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My sedans do a similar thing when I exceed the set speed either by foot or going down a steep hill. The speed indicator flashes rapidly and I believe there is a beep too. The flashing happens until the car goes back to the set speed or the speed is adjusted to catch up.

The second phenomenon is odd to me too, but I can't recall driving for such a long distance with the system at standby. I'll make a mental note to try it next time I have a long trip.

SethardQX4
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Car: 2003 Infiniti QX4

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Thought I would add an update to this old thread. My cruise was running perfectly since May- about 3000 miles. During my thanksgiving road trip pulled the dreaded amber light and threw code 20, 103, and 74.

Will be hitting up the local nissan salvage for another sensor. I think I will try the QX56 sensor this time rather than the FX sensor I used last time. Those look to be a newer design. Hopefully I'll get one that will last longer this time.

I've gotten pretty hooked on the adaptive cruise at this point.

-S

SethardQX4
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Car: 2003 Infiniti QX4

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Update to update: struck gold at the pick n pull with another sensor off an '03 FX35 ($30).

ICC back in action and working better than ever! WOO!

-S

Rockwood
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Car: 2002 QX4

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I just saw you had updated this. Bad that your replacement sensor only lasted a few months, but pretty great you found another FX35 sensor for 30 bucks. That is a lot less than what they ask for the original QX4 sensors. And the FX35 sensors are much easier to find! Good to hear it is working well!

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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That's an excellent price for these radars. Outside of occasional hiccups that I have mentioned in my earlier posts, my ICC has been working very well. My car is creeping up to 176K miles and this is one of the best vehicles I have had. Fingers crossed this trend continues for the next few years while I save up for my next car.


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