2002 QX4 Intelligent Cruise Control. Discussion on solving ASCD issues

A forum for the legendary Nissan Pathfinder and Infiniti QX4.
Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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Pretty sure that is a waterproof connector - see page EL-7. You push in on the tab and the two pieces pop apart. It will probably be sticky because it has not been apart in a long time. See if that helps!


brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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And the problem is FIXED!!!!!!! I have cruise control finally :woot:
So for future reference, the radars themselves are swappable between the QX4 and Q45. However, you need to swap the brackets out. My original radar was from Jul 2001. The one I got was from August 2003. The stickers on the radar itself were exactly the same.

Now:
1. I got error code 55. I clear it and it comes back immediately. I believe this means that the system checks are all normal?
2. The adaptive portion of cruise wont work. It doesn't detect vehicles in front of it at all. Tried multiple times with different types of vehicles in front of me (hatchback, SUV and a semi). No dice.
Over 7 miles of test drive, it randomly showed the "car in front" - when there was car in front as well as oncoming traffic. It flashed this momentarily and then resumed normal operation.

Would very much like to get the adaptive portion of cruise to work.

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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Good news! At least you have regular cruise!

Please post what the sticker said that was the same. That may be helpful in figuring out if another sensor can be used in the QX4 - like maybe a sensor from a QX56, etc.

It looks like code 55 means everything checks ok on the self diagnostic.

Try the tests on the lower part of EL-284. Make sure you get 3 bars, 2 bars, 1 bar for the distance adjustment.

It seems the sensor is seeing something since it said "car in front" sometimes. So try to figure out where it is looking:

1. Get 100 ft behind the car in front, set cruise, make sure you have 3 bars, see if it shows car in front. From what you have said this will not work.

2. Check for looking to the right. Get 100 ft behind car in the right lane ( you are in the left). Set cruise, check for 3 bars, and see if you get car in front signal,

3. Check for looking left. Get in slow lane with a car 100 ft in front in the left lane. Set cruise, check for 3 bars, and see if you get car in front.

In the left look , right look test, if you do not get a car in front signal, close the distance with the accelerator until you are at the rear bumper, and see if you can get a car in front signal. Play around until you get a feeling for what the sensor is looking at.

If you get a car in front signal in one of these tests, I'm thinking you need to do the laser aim procedure.

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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So I had the cruise running for about 46 miles of my 54 miles commute. And then while cruising at 75mph, the dreaded amber fault light came on :facepalm:

Took my exit, pulled over. Read the codes - DTC 74 (which is radar laser is off center). So I erased it and it went back to DTC 55 (no errors).
I got back and was able to use cruise for about a mile. Then had to stop at the lights. Cruise system was still "on" with only the green light on. When I started rolling again, the mph and a black color dot started to rapidly flash.
Image
https://imgur.com/axFNGsl
I turned the cruise system off and restarted it.. Worked normally after that for the last mile of the trip. When I pulled into the parking lot, it again did the rapid flashing. During the flashing, I cannot set the speed.

Now for the functionality test:
1. When the cruise system is working normally, I can adjust the distance setting (all 3 of them) using the button on the steering wheel.
2. It is able to detect vehicles in the right lane pretty accurately. I did some pretty aggressive slow downs with the system (set to 75mph and slow down to 50-55mph based on the semi truck in the right lane).
3. It has no clue about vehicles in the front/on-center or in the left lane. Doesn't matter which distance setting I am in, it just doesn't recognize the vehicles.
4. If I set a certain speed and accelerate, the "mph" symbol flashes 3 times and then I am in manual control of the speed. Once I let go off the gas pedal, mph flashes once and it regains the set speed.
5. I was horsing around trying to blast through a curve. The system detected too much body lean, slowed the vehicle down and then accelerated again once the body lean was gone (yaw sensors are tied to the ICC system?)

Overall, pretty slick. But, what the does the rapid flashing of the mph symbol and the black dot mean? Any way to align the on center of the radar outside of going to the dealership?

PS: I will take a picture of the label on the radar and post it over the weekend for future reference.

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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I have never used adaptive cruise, so I am figuring it out as I go here. I think the black dot may be because you were under the low speed limit for adaptive cruise? Your owners manual should tell you a little about why you would get that. You can downlod an owners manual if you need one from the same thread above where the FSM links are.

The code 74 Radar Laser Offcenter is essentially telling you what you already knew - the laser is supposed to be looking at the vehicles ahead of you in your lane, but it is seeing the truck in the right lane and setting it's speed based off of that. So it is aimed wrong.

You may be able to work this out to where you are happy with it using seat of the pants. If you read the FSM on how to adjust the laser it tells you what screw to adjust to correct the lasers right / left aim.

So, you need to pull the aim to the left. You want the laser to react to the vehicle straight in front of you. After adjusting it left, see if it reacts to the vehicle in front of you. Then do the right / left test again. If I understand correctly, when the laser is centered, you will not get a reaction to the vehicle to the left or right of you. These tests must be done during straight line driving. Curves could fool you. Tests need to be done on one vehicle at a time, two vehicles next to each other will not give you a clean result, since you an't tell for sure which vehicle the sensor is seeing.

If the sensor sees a semi in front of you, but won't see a car at all, or not until you are pretty close to it, that would mean your sensor is aimed too high.

The distances for 3 bars, 2 bars, 1 bar, are in the FSM, so that should give you a feel for whether you are seeing the cars in front at the right distance.

So, you can try manually adjusting it. It will take some time, but I think it can be done. The dealer of course would be faster, but it is also probably a 300.00 service. You are getting highway miles every day, so you basically have plenty of testing opportunities every day.

I think once you work out the kinks, everything is going to work great!

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Thanks for all your responses so far Rockwood. I was able to use it on the way back. Again, it just picks up everything in the right lane. Nothing in the front or to the left. However, I also noticed it only picks up semis or full size vans. I could literally be riding up to a car or an SUV's a** and it wont detect it. The distance options seems to be working fine. So there's that.

I will try to adjust the up and down first. Based on FSM EL-289 should be relatively straight forward. I can't find anything in the FSM for the left or right alignment. Pointers?

And here are the much awaited pictures:
Old vs new: Can you guess my car has been in the Mid West its whole life? ;)
Image
https://imgur.com/1bPwkhC

Sticker on my original radar
Image
https://imgur.com/XkxSPF5

Sticker on the replacement radar
Image
https://imgur.com/5cRztLV

There's also a yellow sticker on the bottom with the same Japanese characters. Should have taken a picture before I put everything back together. But oh well....

I wonder how many people are going to be trying to fix their old broken ICCs? :rolleyes:

Edit: Image upload doesnt seem to be working. So I have added the links as well.

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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Well, I thought I had seen some stuff about horizontal aiming of the laser sensor. But looking at item 9 on page 290 it looks like that is something the laser does internally by itself during the dealer aiming procedure. I think it is going to be a dealer only adjustment.

I was hoping you could ballpark it yourself. If you are adventurous, pop the nose cap off of your old sensor and take a few pics. Might be interesting to see what the parts look like.

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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A couple of followup ideas:

You could try using a bushing / shim to either move the driver side of the sensor back, or the passenger side of the sensor forward. This would effectively change the aim of the unit to the left. Start with a 1/4 inch. Not technically the way you are supposed to do it, but it may work. You will have to look at the mounting bracket and see if that is possible.

The number on the green tag is G8E-225N-3. I think that is the model of the sensor. Early sensors are just G8E-225N. The last number is the revision number. So I am pretty sure any 225N unit can be used, but may need re-aiming when you mount it to a new bracket like you did.

I am not sure how many people will change sensors - although we did figure something out here. There just are not many QX4's with adaptive cruise. Your vehicle is pretty unique in that respect.

Looking at your pics, you do have the upper Midwest rust thing! That updated sensor is in much better shape!

Have you done the rust recall for the front fenders?

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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So I tried the washers idea. Looks like the parallelism requirement between the two top holes (passenger side and the middle/driver side) is very tight i.e. I messed around for 40 minutes only to find that you can't get a skew between the two holes. They have to go on perfectly parallel.
So I called the dealer and made an appointment for Monday. I am hoping the $150 fixes it! If not, I am going to move it either fully high or fully low to see if I can just have it run as regular cruise control. That way, it wont detect anything.

You are right in the aspect that adaptive cruise wasn't a common option in these vehicle. There are none within 250 miles of me.

Yes, the car came quite a few records (but missing the window sticker :( )and the corrosion recall was done almost as soon as the recall letters came out. So I am hoping I got a lot of life in the vehicle. I am targeting to get 200k out of her.

For future reference: I think Qx4, Q45, Q56 and the FX35s of the era all shared the same radar/sensor. But each vehicle had its own unique mounting bracket.

Edit: Mods - can you change the title and add fixed to it? Also, please change the title to include "ICC". I think this thread is the only one on here that actually details out the changes/fixes and might be useful to other users in the future.

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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150.00 for aiming is much better than I expected. When I went in for the passenger airbag recall the dealer quoted me 258.00 for replacing my drive belts.

You may be able to effectively use the adaptive cruise as a regular cruise by setting the distance sensor to minimum (1 bar). I thought there was some kind of button sequence to use adaptive cruise as regular cruise, but I don't see it referenced.

You have pretty much tested the cruise operation at this point, and everything is working ok, it is just not aimed right. I think it will work great once they get it aimed.

Too bad the manual re-aim trick with washers did not work.

Let us know the results of the dealer aim procedure!

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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So as it happens, the dealership completely screwed up the calibration on the radar and now I am back to no cruise control.
Any time I try to restart the car, it resets itself. However, trying to "set" cruise control gives DTC 104 (radar alignment procedure incomplete).

The dealership stated that the radar would accept the alignment but would reset itself almost immediately.
Could this be happening due to different software requirements between the QX4 and Q45? As in, should they try reflashing the radar alignment software as a Q45 instead of as a QX4?

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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Well, that sucks. The manual on page EL-355 says if the adjustment won't hold to replace the ICC sensor. So they are blaming that on the sensor.

The Consult II scanner that the dealer uses for programming knows what car it is attached to automatically I think - I don't think they could use the Q45 setting as the Q45 is a CANBUS system while the QX4 is not, and I think the programming may work differently. You could ask them if that is possible, I just kind of think they will say no.

I will suggest pulling the faceplate off of your old sensor. I am curious if there is a backup battery in the sensor, much like a computer motherboard, that maintains the settings when the car is turned off. That would explain the reset every time the car is turned off. If there is, then I think it is probably dead on the newer sensor you bought. Probably soldered to the circuit board. So you could elect to replace it.

If that is not a solution, I think trying a new sensor is the only option.

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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Nevermind the battery comment - I see they are using the Consult II to program a rom chip on the sensor.

I am thinking that the new sensor does have a problem. If the dealer completed the alignment, it means the Consult II was able to properly communicate with the sensor. But the sensor is not saving the alignment information.

But, I cannot be 100% cretain that this is not because the sensor came from a Q45.

What do you think? Try another Q45 sensor or go for a QX4 sensor?

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Dealership was entirely useless. I honestly think there are monkeys working in the bays out there. :facepalm:
Ordered another unit off ebay. Hoping I have better luck and dont need alignment. Once I have this alignment-less unit off, I will take the back cover off and post some pictures.
What I don't understand is how the radar has a misalignment (which was stored obviously) but the dealership is not able to flash the correct alignment on it. Doesn't seem to add up in my head....

I would prefer a QX4 sensor....but can't find one for less money.

I did however check the 2004 FX35 FSM. It has the same pin outs and the operating resistances. Can you take a look at that one please? Just in case....I wanna be prepared. Is the FX35 similar to QX4 and are OBDII controlled vehicles?

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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I checked the FX35 sensor on EBay and it shows a model number G8E-235N. The QX56 uses a model number G8E-237N. So, I don't think those will work. You need to stick with 225N models.

There are two possibliities on why the dealer could not save the final alignment: Bad circuit / rom in the sensor, or there is a minor difference between the QX4 sensor and the Q45 sensor. Since the dealer could perform the alignment on the sensor, it means their Consult II system could properly talk to it. I am thinking a sensor problem because of the DTC104 -that type of problem is known, and a DTC is programmed for it. But I am keeping my fingers crossed.

There are a couple of QX4 sensors on car-part.com that say "call for price". You may have to do that if there is a problem with the second sensor.

Can you return the sensor that did not align?

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Crap. I guess I could call those JYs and see what price they are offering.
I was hoping the FX35/QX56 would work because are much more plenty and cheaper. But oh well.

I am waiting to see how this other replacement sensor works before initiating the return of the one that's now in the vehicle without alignment......

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Ok - so got the replacement radar in. It still likes to pick up vehicles in the right lane instead of directly up front.
The improvements over the previous "replacement" radar are"
1. It does not pick every overpass on my commute.
2. Its able to detect vehicles up front even if they are not semis.

HOWEVER, even with the highest distance setting, it gets to about 10 feet before it starts auto braking (the first time I tried it, let's just say I had my b@{{$ in my mouth :ohno: ).
Using the 2 mounting screws, I already have it as far left (towards driver's side) as I can.

I am hesitant to try the dealership again. Those monkeys might screw this one up too....

Couple of thoughts:
1. Is the mounting location on the Q45 different than the QX4? (in term of where they go in the vehicle. Is the one on the Q45 farther towards the center vs. on QX4 its on the passenger side).
2. Add washer on the radar mounting screw on the passenger side to physically force the radar to be pushed towards the driver's side?
3. Is there an easy way to get the radiator grille off? Each time I pull the radar+bracket assembly, I am forcing and bending the radiator grille. Would hate to break it.

04pathse
Posts: 776
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 2:55 pm
Car: 2004 Nissan Pathfinder SE
2008.5 Mazda Mazdaspeed 3

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The FSM says to rotate the clips on the grille 45 degrees and squeeze the clips to remove. Did you do that?

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/QX4/2002/BT.pdf

pg 13,14, clip removal on pg 12

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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I did not. Thanks for the link though. Will be handy when I try to add the washers in a bit to try and move that radar towards the center of the vehicle.

SethardQX4
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Car: 2003 Infiniti QX4

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I've been looking everywhere for someone who has fixed their ICC. Thanks for all the information! You answered a lot of my questions that I had gearing up for this repair (I was also very curious about compatibility with other sensors) . I'll keep checking back for any updates. Keep of posted if Q45 sensor can be successfully calibrated. I read a post where someone said their ICC worked as normal cruise when they put tape over the sensor. Have you thought of that as a plan b?

Also, I had a question for the more technically inclined on here. I haven't worked with electrical systems at all, and don't have any diagnostic tools. When you replace a bad sensor do you need to clear out error codes before it will work- or should it be plug and play?

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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I am glad this thread was useful. I am still toying with the vertical calibration by rotating the adjustment screw half a turn every day to see if there's improvements.....still got some work to do. The side to side calibration is off but better than the previous "replacement" unit.

You can clear the codes by:
1. Turn key to "ACC" and then press Up button 5 times followed by Down button 5 times -> this will display all the cruise specific DTCs.
2. Then you press the Cancel button 5 times followed by Distance button 5 times. That will clear codes and reset it to "55" which means no error codes.

You don't need dealership for this. Just swap out the radars first and then follow the above 2 steps. It's all plug and play. Good luck!

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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I haven't checked, but I thought the ICC sensor on the Q45 was on the passenger side of the bumper. Also, the bracket on the Q45 may not necessarily point the sensor straight ahead. It could aim it a little left of where the QX4 bracket aims it.

Let me know how the aiming goes!

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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So after playing around with the vertical aiming, I am more or less happy with where it is. It picks up vehicles of every size as long as they are in the right lane and picks up semis from a decent distance up front (say 20 feet-ish). However, when it comes to picking up passenger cars up front, things get hairy pretty quickly - I am talking about 5-10 feet going 75mph.

This weekend I tried placing the bracket from the Q45 in the front bumper of my QX4. Turns out, the Q45 bracket is aimed dead straight whereas the Qx4 bracket is a bit bent towards the right. No wonder it picks vehicles in the right lane. Its cold here again this week dropping into 20s. Once it warms up, my plan is to drill the passenger side hole in the mounting bracket and make it a slot as well. Then use the washers idea that you suggested Rockwood. The goal is to relieve the parallelism requirement between the passenger side and driver side mounting holes so that I can have the bracket/radar facing straight ahead once I am done with all of this.

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Well, I got the amber cruise light again. Pulled DTCs 20 and 103. Later in the day, I disconnected and re-connected the connector at the radar. Now it just shows me DTC103. Per FSM, radar is faulty and needs to be changed....again.

Thoughts of any way to salvage this unit? Will units from an M45 work in the QX4?

OR can I just convert my system to a regular good ol' cruise control system so that I can have something that works more than a couple of weeks at a time?

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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Well, I checked the M45 ICC sensors on EBay and looked at the manual. There is one on Ebay that clearly shows it is an OMRON G8E-225N, 2 revision, so it will work. Car-part.com shows it to be compatible on M45's made to 4/06, after that they went to Hitachi ICC's. It is possible a Hitachi would work, but I really can't tell for sure. If you find an M45 sensor that is the 225N Omron model, you are ok. Pinouts and wiring specs are the same. Notice that Infiniti was using the 225N Omrons on some models thru 2006, so they are more common than I thought.

I looked at one point for some type of adaptive cruise sensor repair online, but did not find anything. Seems no one is repairing these ICC sensors.

As far as going to standard cruise, I will take a look at wiring and see what a conversion might entail. I think there will be a problem with the steering mounted controls - they are different on regular cruise. Which probably means a different clockspring inside the steering wheel, and some different wiring.

Sorry to hear this sensor went bad. I thought you had it more or less worked out.

Rockwood
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Car: 2002 QX4

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No, the adaptive cruise is completely different than the regular cruise - they are just wired completely differently. So you can't convert the adaptive system to the standard system.

If you have the one ICC sensor that the dealer could not lock in the adjustment settings on, take an ohm meter and measure resistance across terminals 3 and 6 ( the CAN circuit.)

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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This sensor was working fine until yesterday morning I got in the car and hit cruise and the amber error light illuminated. The previous evening while commuting back we had thunderstorms and the roads were kinda falling apart. Probably picked up a stone/debris somewhere......

Nonethless, disappointing to hear that I cannot convert to regular cruise control. I think the original design (the one I currently have on the car as well as the original on my vehicle) seem overly sensitive to road debris and makes them kinda useless.

I will try measuring the resistance and post it here. Now I gotta go through the hassle of taking everything out and then putting everything back on its respective brackets and shipping the stuff back. :facepalm:

Switching to standard cruise control would have been ideal. I like the ICC, but its a little too finicky.

You are correct on the ICC fixing.....looks like we made the most progress on this thread. Too few vehicles with the ICC coupled with exorbitant costs means most people never attempted to fix their systems I am guessing.

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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Rockwood wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:47 pm
Well, I checked the M45 ICC sensors on EBay and looked at the manual. There is one on Ebay that clearly shows it is an OMRON G8E-225N, 2 revision, so it will work. Car-part.com shows it to be compatible on M45's made to 4/06, after that they went to Hitachi ICC's. It is possible a Hitachi would work, but I really can't tell for sure. If you find an M45 sensor that is the 225N Omron model, you are ok. Pinouts and wiring specs are the same. Notice that Infiniti was using the 225N Omrons on some models thru 2006, so they are more common than I thought.
Ordered the one on eBay from the 2006 M45....fingers crossed this will be the final fix.

SethardQX4
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Car: 2003 Infiniti QX4

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I've been searching a ton for a g8e-225 without any success. Could someone point me in the right direction if one is listed for sub $200? I'm very tempted to try either a g8e-235n or one of the hitachi models (g8e-310n-25) which is currently listed for $45 shipped. Can someone confirm or deny whether the connector is the same for those models? I'd be willing to give it a try and see what happens if the connections are the same. I haven't been able to find a definitive answer either way.

-S

-

brickbox
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm
Car: 2011 Nissan Pathfinder 4x4

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The connector looks to be same/similar between the Hitachi and Omron radars based on eBay.
Disappointingly, the 4th radar I got off eBay also does not work. DTC#103.....again :wtf2: I thought something was goofy on my car. Re-verified resistances and continuity at the radar connector and controller to make sure that all is ok (which it is). So back to searching for a new one.

I am kinda getting tired blowing this much money on a stupid cruise control that should just work and not be so finicky.
If you don't mind - I say give the Hitachi one a shot and let me know if it works. $45 isn't too bad compared to all the money I have already dumped on the 4 Omron 225 radars.

The Omron 235 has the same pin out and working voltages + resistances as our 225s. However, I am not sure if its just a software difference which could possibly be backwards compatible.


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