2002 Q45 F50 Project Teaser pics

[impreziv]

as a rule if you double the atmospheric pressure going into an engine you will approximately double the horsepower. That means if you take a 340 hp engine and run 14.7 psi of boost with a properly sized supercharger you can expect 680 hp minus the power to run the supercharger.

you are so very wrong.

you could take a Garrett GT2860 turbocharger (this turbo flows a maximum amount of air to make 360hp), and set it up on your 4.5L. set up the wastegate to 14.7psi. you will certainly NOT make 600hp. the turbo isn't capable of flowing more than 360hp worth of air.

i have no idea how much pressure the turbo make when it flows 360hp, but it is much higher than 14.7psi (maybe 30psi?), it certainly doesnt make 600hp there either.

the same logic applies for a supercharger. there is a certain speed you can accellerate a supercharger to where it no longer flows more air than it did at a lower RPM, this is beyond its efficiancy point. this factor allows you to determine the maximum amount of air the compressor will be able to flow. most manufacturers of turbos and superchargers will tell you the max amount of power it can make.

the amount of boost pressure is not a factor. the amount of air mass it flows at a given RPM within its efficiancy range is the only thing that will tell you how much power the blower can make.

by your logic, any turbo capable of compressing air to 14.7 psi could make an engine produce 600hp, as long as it made 300hp in its normally aspirated state.

air-mass = power (potential power)air-pressure = merely the compression needed to compress that air mass to a volume able to be forced into the engine.

[sijoko]

you are so very wrong.

you could take a Garrett GT2860 turbocharger (this turbo flows a maximum amount of air to make 360hp), and set it up on your 4.5L. set up the wastegate to 14.7psi. you will certainly NOT make 600hp. the turbo isn't capable of flowing more than 360hp worth of air.

i have no idea how much pressure the turbo make when it flows 360hp, but it is much higher than 14.7psi (maybe 30psi?), it certainly doesnt make 600hp there either.

the same logic applies for a supercharger. there is a certain speed you can accellerate a supercharger to where it no longer flows more air than it did at a lower RPM, this is beyond its efficiancy point. this factor allows you to determine the maximum amount of air the compressor will be able to flow. most manufacturers of turbos and superchargers will tell you the max amount of power it can make.

the amount of boost pressure is not a factor. the amount of air mass it flows at a given RPM within its efficiancy range is the only thing that will tell you how much power the blower can make.

by your logic, any turbo capable of compressing air to 14.7 psi could make an engine produce 600hp, as long as it made 300hp in its normally aspirated state.

air-mass = power (potential power)air-pressure = merely the compression needed to compress that air mass to a volume able to be forced into the engine.

Maybe you should take the time to read what I wrote first before you answer. I qualified my statement about psi with the fact that the compressor has to be sized properly for the engine. So am I still wrong?

[marksport]

you are so very wrong.

you could take a Garrett GT2860 turbocharger (this turbo flows a maximum amount of air to make 360hp), and set it up on your 4.5L. set up the wastegate to 14.7psi. you will certainly NOT make 600hp. the turbo isn't capable of flowing more than 360hp worth of air.

i have no idea how much pressure the turbo make when it flows 360hp, but it is much higher than 14.7psi (maybe 30psi?), it certainly doesnt make 600hp there either.

the same logic applies for a supercharger. there is a certain speed you can accellerate a supercharger to where it no longer flows more air than it did at a lower RPM, this is beyond its efficiancy point. this factor allows you to determine the maximum amount of air the compressor will be able to flow. most manufacturers of turbos and superchargers will tell you the max amount of power it can make.

the amount of boost pressure is not a factor. the amount of air mass it flows at a given RPM within its efficiancy range is the only thing that will tell you how much power the blower can make.

by your logic, any turbo capable of compressing air to 14.7 psi could make an engine produce 600hp, as long as it made 300hp in its normally aspirated state.

air-mass = power (potential power)air-pressure = merely the compression needed to compress that air mass to a volume able to be forced into the engine.

Tho I haven't stated how much power I will be putting out, this supercharger maxes out at 970cfm or around 67lbs/min
Modified by marksport at 8:40 AM 5/15/2008

[impreziv]

Maybe you should take the time to read what I wrote first before you answer. I qualified my statement about psi with the fact that the compressor has to be sized properly for the engine. So am I still wrong?

i was responding to your bit about "double the atmospheric pressure going into an engine you will approximately double the horsepower"

yes you are still wrong about that.

Tho I haven't stated how much power I will be putting out, this supercharger maxes out at 970cfm or around 67lbs/minModified by marksport at 8:40 AM 5/15/2008

i wasnt meaning to rash on you or your project. i was just saying this cause other ppl are spitting out alot of numbers with no information regarding the actual supercharger you are using.

if 970cfm is the max, you should be good for 668hp. the normal rule is 1.45cfm = 1hp (potential HP).

im not sure if youre planning for an intercooler or not. not having one is going to bring you a bit lower than that 668 'potential hp'.

i stand corrected :p i wouldnt have figured a blower of that size to be able to flow that. is that an OEM blower from a production car? or an aftermarket?

[marksport]

i was responding to your bit about "double the atmospheric pressure going into an engine you will approximately double the horsepower"

yes you are still wrong about that.

i wasnt meaning to rash on you or your project. i was just saying this cause other ppl are spitting out alot of numbers with no information regarding the actual supercharger you are using.

if 970cfm is the max, you should be good for 668hp. the normal rule is 1.45cfm = 1hp (potential HP).

im not sure if youre planning for an intercooler or not. not having one is going to bring you a bit lower than that 668 'potential hp'.

i stand corrected :p i wouldnt have figured a blower of that size to be able to flow that. is that an OEM blower from a production car? or an aftermarket?

That's the main reason I never quoted how much power I was going to get, other than 15psi would be as much most cars can run on pump gas. I am running the Laminova heat exchanger air to water intercooler. The blower is fairly compact and being that it's a twin screw, it is one of the most efficient supercharger around. The unit is a Lysholm Autorotor sold thru Kenne Bell. I think there is only one or two cars that use these as OEM supercharger as they are quite expensive new compared to a roots or magnacharger.

[maxnix]

All this talk about air flow and horsepower is rather irrelevant because HP is just a calculated number based on torque.

What really counts is area under the torque curve when graphed. Why the V12 MB truck designed head engine and Audi V12 diesel do so well, the latter in spite of its RPM limitations (hence less horizontal dimension on the X axis).

[sijoko]

i was responding to your bit about "double the atmospheric pressure going into an engine you will approximately double the horsepower"

yes you are still wrong about that.

I think you should school yourself before you go around saying people are wrong about a subject. All naturally aspirated engines are operating at 14.7 psi of pressure at sea level. This is the weight of the atmosphere pushing the air into the vacuum inside the cylinders. If you go up in elevation, where there is less atmospheric pressure, you will have less weight pushing the air into the cylinders hence less engine power output. This is basic engine theory.

Now, what about forced induction? I said that if you added 14.7 of boost to an engine with the correct sized compressor you would approx. double its power output. Why? Because we now have double the amount of air going into the engine. The only thing is that the compressor has to be able to support double the naturally aspirated airflow at 14.7 psi of boost. Yes, you have to take into account other variables such as heating of the air flow but the basic premise is still correct.

Here's an excerpt from an article by Popular Hotrodding:

Normally aspirated motors actually have atmospheric pressure pushing the air into the cylinders. This pressure (at sea level and at a given temperature) is 14.7 psi or one bar. Doubling the power output of the motor can be as simple as doubling the pressure to the motor. Upping the pressure to two bar (14.7 psi above atmospheric) can double the power output of your motor.

Here is where things start to get tricky. Suppose you have a 300hp normally aspirated motor and want to double the power output. If you install a turbo kit and set the waste gate to 14.7 psi, chances are you will nearly double the power output. Of course, this equation assumes a number of things, the first of which is you have a turbo capable of supplying 600 hp worth of airflow.

This pressure-to-power conversion works at elevated power levels as well, which is why we chose to increase the power output of the normally aspirated motor in the first place. If we run 14.7 psi, we essentially double any power gains applied to the normally aspirated motor. An example works well here. Suppose our test motor produced 400 hp normally aspirated. If we applied 14.7 psi to the 400hp motor, we would expect something near 800 hp. If we upped the power output of our normally aspirated motor to 450 (a gain of 50 hp), the same 14.7 psi would give us something closer to 900 hp. If we take this scenario one step further, we can see that a 500hp normally aspirated motor will produce near our magical 1,000 hp at just 14.7 psi.

http://www.popularhotrodding.c...html

And here's what ProCharger states on their website:

How much horsepower will a supercharger add to my engine?

Although some manufacturers claim a specific horsepower increase, superchargers actually add horsepower as a percentage gain (percentage of an atmosphere). Assuming an engine with a compression ratio of around 9:1 running pump gas,if a supercharger gives your engine 14.7 psi of boost (another atmosphere) that will essentially double the output of your engine, everything else being equal.

http://www.procharger.com/faq.shtml

[marksport]

My build is based on the 2003 Cobra Mustang as they have similar displacement at 4.6L, quad cam 32valve motor and 320hp stock.

[maxnix]

I have seen this in a special Maruader, a one off special build. Want a picture, MS?

He also has a SVT Mustang that puts out 600+HP on racing gas. Still have to go for a ride in it.


Modified by maxnix at 4:21 PM 5/20/2008

[marksport]

I have seen this in a specail Maruader, a one off special build. Want a picture, MS?

He also has a SVT Mustang that puts out 600+HP on racing gas. Still have to go for a ride in it.

lets see them. I've always loved the marauder for their sleeper musclecar looks.

[gammer_ghn]

Wow I haven’t been on Nico for couple of days and we have a Skyline fan boy coming to our territory and talking smack? Jeez impreziv i think you learned to GTFO here without being told but why dont you go and play with your car and leave the big boys with V8's alone. Marksport you’re the man get this done and make it a write up since we all need to learn a few things here! Thanks for your patience. If your project goes well ill actually change my motivation of getting a 02 Camaro SS to getting an 03-04 F50 and doing something similar to what your doing if the engine takes its new organ right and doesn’t spit it out.

[yukis45]

sup mark good seeing you on these boards as well as FA continue the great work man

[gammer_ghn]

BUMP!!! Where are you standing with this project? Update please!!! im really thinking about doing this also my self.

[mcrews]

gammer....your killin me

poor marksport was nice enough to show use

BUMP!!! Where are you standing with this project? Update please!!! im really thinking about doing this also my self.

his shiney new toys and we all want a finished car in time for the first spring car show

marksport, you gotta admit we are a little starved for some bolt on, slam on shiney thumpin engine.

(are you done yet...i cant hold them back much longer!!!!

[superchargedq45]

mark if you ge this shoot me an email if you can [email protected] i just picked up a 2003 supercharged ifiniti q45 . I hope we can maybe chat thanks jeff

[maxnix]

i just picked up a 2003 supercharged ifiniti q45 .

Never could understand why Seattle was the graveyard of so many Keuliyan supercharged F50. Must have seen 3 or 4 at Infiniti of Kirkland, and I wasn't on the lot that often.

They are hand grenades, so be very careful.

[F1SportsFan]

I am planning to run 15psi as my fuel management maxes out at 16psi. Lack of options on fuel management is the limiting factor or I would consider higher boost and twin turbo.

What are you using for fuel management? Killer project!

[Tony Two-Tone]

Old thread, but whatever happened with this build?