The only thing important about selecticing a technican is HOW MANY of your EXACT year model he works on every week/month/ year/decade.

If he allows you to call him a mechanic and you have an electonic problem I would be worried.

LOL it's so true, I respect most of the people who do this for a living and by no means am trying to P*** anyone off, or undermine the well qualified. Some of the guys don't do electrical well, it's not like building an engine , the guys who work indie have work on everything on wheels. Now some of the guys I have worked with do not know what Infiniti quality work should be, and I would like to apologize for them. I was curious so I went through my log and had three electrical complaints on 93 and up Qs this week. The size of the shop means very little compared to the competency of its Technicians, key word Technicians

I drove 40 miles a day to go to work. 20 miles to see a reputable technician is.... nothing.

It's not just about the 20 miles.

Okay, so here's the latest...

After the mechanics scanner showed the right rear O2 sensor was failing, I ordered onefrom IOS.

I advised the mechanic/facility that once installed I could not return the O2 sensorand would not be happy if this latest diagnosis did not fix the problem.

Here's what they did; they ordered a bosch O2 sensor and installed it.It gave them all the "right" datastream on their scanner as far as doing what it was supposed to, as compared to the old one they took out.

So I go to pick up the car with this new bosch O2 sensor in it and while waiting to make the u-turn to go home,......."chug.....chug....chug....".

So; the problem is still there with this new bosch O2 sensor.

At this point, I bring the car all 100 yards back to the place, leave it running and themechanic hooks up his scanner with me in the car, car running with me alternating itbetween drive and reverse. We can both feel the car doing the "chug" but the scanneris not getting any error codes.

While in their custody, and on road tests, the car did not "chug" for them (I guess I just have the touch).

So what they want to do next...

I don't feel real confident about it and so need a second opinion; do I let him do what he wants to do next, or wait until the problem becomes consistent instead of intermittent.

What he wants to do next:

He wants to drop the ECU (instead of just plugging his scanner into it) and connect it to a "scope". When he described "dropping the ECU" he made it sound like it would be pretty involved untangling it and half disassembling under the steering wheel to get it out.

From there he was going to use a metal probe and stab into wires and trace what appeared to be happening between the ECU and the fuel injectors (etc).

This may be normal, but it sounds like a really bad way to do things and potential to createnasty electrical gremlins; cuz once they start they never seem to go away.

At this point, the labor charges have stopped; they are determined to fix this problem, or at least diagnose it.

As I said, I don't feel comfortable with what he described, as I understand it.

I'd rather he just put in a new fuel filter, O2 sensor and see what happens.

Opinions?

Q45tech wrote:The only thing important about selecticing a technican is HOW MANY of your EXACT year model he works on every week/month/ year/decade.

Read, reread, then read again the above quote and get your car to a GENUINE AUTHORISED INFINITI DEALER for proper diagnosis and repair.How much time and money have you already WASTED fooling with this issue?????

Smart people learn from their mistakes....The really smart people learn from the mistakes of others.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results

Qualified competent help is usually worth what one pays.

As a matter of fact, when I was "discussing" the number of attempts this shop has made to fix this issue with the mechanic, I said to him, if I had brought this car to the dealeror my guy in Kearny Mesa (Jerry Tuckers) this would have been fixed the first time.

If you want to know how to piss off a mechanic, this would be the way to do it.

When he asked me why I thought a dealer/Jerry Tucker would have fixed it the first timethat's exactly what I said to him; "how many of these cars do you think the dealer sees a week, or my guy in Kearny Mesa, versus your shop.

So I don't really need to read and re-read it. I get it.

Review the comments and suggestions in this thread, especially all the steps Brian went thru to finally resolve this same issue in his Q. There were alot of steps; so to be fair, while I'm nott happy about it, 3 attempts is still less than it took others on this board to resolve the issue.

As competence usually being worth what you pay, absolutely.

At this point, they are not charging for the labor because of the huge stink I made aboutthe infamous $28.00 spark plugs and of course the fact that they have not resolved the initialcomplaint.

Yes, the most wise person learns from the experience and mistakes of others, and that is what I am attempting to do.

Nonetheless, from the start, in this thread, I stated that as for doing this kind of stuff myself,I am a dolt.

But....

I posed a specific question about the next thing the guy wants to do.

I am asking if the approach is common, normal or unreasonable from a tech's point of view(hence my directing the update to "Steve the tech").

And if it is not, I will have the guy do the simple task of putting in MY O2 sensorand fuel filter, I will drive the car until the "chug" it becomes consistent not intermittent.

In the meantime, thank you both for your time and thoughts, though a little insulted, I do appreciate your input.

I do not think anyone here is actually trying to dig on you here.

I have no idea what dropping the ECM is, maybe someone here may be able to enlighten me. Is it a regional dialect thing, or does the guy have no idea what to do next.

A chug seems more like a dead miss or your timing being off. I would try to get it to a dealer or qualified tech before the problem gets worse to avoid serious damage. If a coil is not firing catalytic converter damage may result, if it's timing related (ie a failing CMP sensor) than you will loose fuel economy and potentially cause more long term damage.

Even these older Qs use a rudimentary CAN system and I would not advise anyone who doesn't know how to read the foldout to leave it alone. I would stick to that shop for remove and install of simple parts but you need advanced engine diagnosis at this point.

I would personally like to get my hands on your car to run a few tests but the only way I would know how to do it is with the Nissan Consult. I don't think a local Nissan dealer would be able to help much either since Nissan never had a set up like that.

Steve;

Thanks; ECU, not ECM.

He said it was the computer that the scanner normally hooks up to, but instead of usingthe normal connection that just plugs in, he wanted to pull the computer out from under the dash and hook it to a different scope, not his quick hook up scanner; and use a probe.

Using a metal probe and puncturing wires to trace what the computer is doing sets offred flags for me and that's why I was asking if this is a normal/reasonable approach to diagnosis.

I think my initial response is correct and that is to not let him do it; it doesn't soundlike something a tech here would do, let alone him messing with all the wiring he will have to mess with to pull the ECU/Computer out from under the steering wheel.

Does that make it any more clear/make sense?

A simple, "yeah; don't let him do" it will suffice.

And thanks again.

kevinis wrote:Steve;

ECU, not ECM.

Both terms and TCU and TCM are used interchangeably in the earlier G50 FSM. I haven't had to read as much of the 2000 FGY33 FSM.

As Steve said, a competent technician with Consult II would figure this out pretty quickly. Everything else is just rubbing slat in the wound. May not do any harm, but it won't heal any faster and sure causes a lot of pain, no?
Modified by maxnix at 4:37 PM 9/14/2008

Engine Control Module (ECM)The ECM consists of a microcomputer, diagnostic test modeselector, and connectors for signal input and output and for powersupply. The unit controls the engine.

Straight out of the 2000 Q45 ESM.

Not trying to be a d!ck. Just saying.

I could have given a simple answer to the question but I tried to give you a little more.

I don't know what taking the ECM out of the car will do since you want to measure sensor inputs.

Time to change course........If it were my car, I would thank the original shop for their efforts, keep a positive relationship with them in case you want to return for simple routine maintenance{put air in tires,oil change,etc} and get your car to a trained Infiniti tech at the Infiniti dealer

Again, thanks all.

I agree; salt in the wound and it's just raising my stress level.

Listening to you all, and what my comfort level is with the procedure he described, I am now feeling that my best course is to have them take out their bosch O2, sensor, put in my new one (and my fuel filter) and tell them I'm just gonna live with the "chug" (keeping a positive relationship with them).

They really have made honest attempts to correct the problem, so I have to give them that;they are trying to live up to their "satisfaction guaranteed" BBB, Triple A approved yada yadastatus, but the bottom line is, how many of these DO they see in a week/month/year.I suspect at this point, they're wishing NONE!

Still, it wears you down, and as I and others have said, I don't want them to end up creating a bigger problem than we are initially trying to solve.

I will then have to fess up to Brian at Jerry Tuckers and tell him what 's going on as well aswhat has been replaced (that's gonna be real fun...) and see if there's a way to work out the logistics of geography etc.

I am teetering on just letting it go from intermittent to consistent just so that there is no further time wasted with "we could not replicate the problem" knowing thatthat it is not giving any codes at this point, and also knowing that it really can go several days without the symptom, and then do it several days in a row.

It may be a while before I post again for that reason, but for the benefit of those on the boardI will post the final diagnosis and resolution once I get it.

Keep your spirits up about it don't let it stress you too badly. I have had some very frustrating experiences with issues with the wifes Acura.

I would avoid these cars like the plague when I was working Indie.

Look, if the guy is honest and well intenioned and still wrong, the car won't care. And you'll still be stressed. If you want him to learn on your Q45 at your expense, then there will at the minimum be frustrations.

Nothing beats experience and familiarity with a model's diagnostics. It's a steep curve up to speed. Only because of Dennis' excellent posts are the incompetent such as myself able to overlook a procedure and tell if the tech has a clue or not. Simple stuff I can perform if I am real careful and follow others excellent DIY posts.

kev, keep driving the car like that and when you try to accelerate and it misfires/hesitates/chugs floor it more and that will trigger the ecu to throw a cylinder misfire code, hopefully assuming it is a coil. i wouldnt have advise it too you a month ago but that is exactly what i did when i got on the highway and almost cut somebody off. when i floor it it still chug but eventually caught up and the ses light was blinking like i never seen before. the next day i scanned the car and it showed p0301 cyl#1 misfire. since i knew 90% it was the coil cause i had the same problem with my other Q i changed it with one of the 8 used coils i already had and i fixed the problem. before i changed it the car would hesitate and when i put more pressure on the gas it would do nothing not even change gear like it was stuck in second, now it accelerates much better and when i give it more gas it would actually raise the rpm and/or downshift. also i forgot to mention that this 99 qt i got has both bosch rear o2 sensors. i just noticed it when i did a drain and fill my trans and added lucas trans additive so i doubt that the bosch is causing your problems. but anyways that is my advise and good luck with it.

Interesting, but why on earth use the Lucas additive?

Much better to use M1 and a little Lube Guard Red with an auxiliary ATF cooler.

tried those already except the cooler. the problem im having is that the tranmission feels loose. going at speeds below 50mph when i accelerate then take my foot off the gas i could actually feel the trans disconnect and when i give it gas again i feel it like jump forward. it never did slip though just a little rough compared to my other y33.i did a search and someone had the same problem on their 2000 y33 and the problem went away after a trans flush with oem fluids. i did a drain n fill with red lubegard and m1 even though the fluid looked new from the dealer. the cars trans was even replaced at 60k and it now has 117k. i told my mechanic about it and what i did already and he advised me about the lucas and how it might help. do you think im going to damage my transmission with the lucas?