I was just reading a post by Wes on the benefits of synthetic oil on engine varnishing and it reminded me of something I've believed about ethanol - that it reduces the risk of varnishing. Until I started reading posts here, I fully believed it was superior to regular gasoline. After reading Dennis's posts (he clearly doesn't like ethanol) I understand that it definately delivers less energy per gallon than gaoline. But what about other benefits? Are there any? (I'll mention that I've put 376,000 miles on a '90 Accord with no particular care for improved oil or other fluids, and almost exclusively on 10% ethanol).

Been doin' some googlin'. Apparently in addition to providing lower gas mileage, there's evidence that ethanol promotes intake deposits and dilutes lubrication in bearings and cylinders overnight, causing theoretical abrasion on startup. however, no real detrimental effects have been found in real-world fleet tests.

It might be the petroleum industry confusing the research. I'm just wondering what has made my Accord last so long on ethanol. I won't be using ethanol blends in the Q, though. Besides requiring a higher octane than ethanol usually provides, I suspect the Q is more vulnerable to alterations in fuel blend.

But what do I know. Anybody else?

Depending on where you live, you may not have any choice. Here in CA, I'm pretty sure we'll get ethanol in every brand when MTBE goes away.

Besides the inceased fuel consumption, the rubber fuel hoses and injector seals were not compatible.The possibility of up to 10% [never that bad usually] water being added [from condensation in tanks and pipelines] makes ethanol; dangerous [rust in fuel tanks - system etc].

Just use Isoheat with every fill up and the problems will go away but that adds a dolllar per tank [2.2%] more costly.

All together it adds a 10% tax on gasoline.Plus the emissions can be worse in cold weather but better in Summer.

The primary problem is that engines [closed loop AF ratio and cats] were optimized on non ethanol fuels [but that applies to MTBE also].

With only 1% water that's 2.5 ounces of water per 20 gallons [per 2 gallons of ethanol in mix] and even isoheet can only control 11 ounces so heres hoping you never see more than 4% water in your gasoline.

It is usally a more long term problem with hoses.

Good article on the effects of bad gasoline:

http://hostingprod.com/@aa1car...5.htm

This article points out low detergent levels or cheap detergents.........why I use BG44k every 4,000 miles..........every 220 gallons..........but just better than available gasoline would be cheaper as the BG adds 4 cents per gallon to the cost at wholesale and 7 cents when you pay retail for it.

Might be possible to buy 55 gallon drum [30 years worth] of detergents [polyetheramine] from manufacturer but the freight would kill you.http://www.basf.com/static/Ope....html

http://theoildrop.server101.co...02699

Top Tier certified gasoline retailers:

http://toptiergas.com/retailers.html

I'm in Tucson and according to most reports all of our gas in the region comes from the same pipeline company.

So is it all the same stuff no matter who's pump is at the end?

Who supplies Sam's Club and Costco? Price is right, but is it junk gas?

Ethanol is causing a problem in Chevy engines due to SS Frett corrosion in the injectors causing excessive resistance and injector failure. TSB on my 01 3/4 ton burb 8.1L. Which makes my 93 J30 seem economical even with premium gas!!!

Matt

The gas all comes from the same place, and then detergents are added to the truckload, depending on its destination. Jesda posted this on the Infiniti General board:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/m...6.asp

Something to watch for.

The refineries are at one end of the pipe (like a manifold) it's pumped up to Milw. and the specific gravity for each gas is different so they pipe it in to different tanks (via manifold). The mixed gas in between is pushed into a slop tank. They know what's coming and approximately when so it's not too difficult to do.

Many more bad injectors around here than the article leads one to believe, according to a friend who delivers to many shops and dealerships in the area, as well as local talk radio having a field day with it. My accountants van had 2 inj. die last week, Citgo had a pre-pay card discount promotion around here.

Just shows you must analyse every potential tankful before allowing it into the car. Or ACCEPT what you buy and the consequences.

We've discussed how bad ethanol gas is before, but this is the first time I recall specifics such as hoses, injectors, etc....

We've also concluded before that you're basicly SOL, since you can't buy anything else in most places.

Now, it appears Dennis uses Isoheat in every tank. Does that basicaly reverse the effects of companies adding ethonal? Where can you get it? I've never heard of it, but after feeling the effects of BG44K I'm a believer in the advice given here.

BTW, Dennis you run BG44K in your tank with every oil change? That doesn't cause any harmful effects. (I don't mean to hijack the thread.)

For the past 7.5 years I have used BG44k prior to every oil change, sometime in the 90days............~~30 cans. Buy it from BG man at cost by the case so $40 per year.

99% Isopropyl Alcohol can hold more water in suspension than Ethanol usually buy 6 small cans in winter only. Can every 2-3 weeks. Probably over kill but less than $10.

So far ATL does not have Ethanol Federal Couurt of Appeals but the tank farms have installed all the equipment to splash blend. Any day now!

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/pr041007b.html

"Buy it from BG man at cost by the case so $40 per year"

Where and how much?

Here's a interesting article, especially considering that the new energy bill mandates that the amount of ethanol used in gasoline double.

Study: Ethanol Not Worth the EnergyBy MARK JOHNSONThe Associated PressTuesday, July 19, 2005; 3:11 AMALBANY, N.Y. -- Farmers, businesses and state officials are investing millions of dollars in ethanol and biofuel plants as renewable energy sources, but a new study says the alternative fuels burn more energy than they produce.Supporters of ethanol and other biofuels contend they burn cleaner than fossil fuels, reduce U.S. dependence on oil and give farmers another market to sell their produce.But researchers at Cornell University and the University of California-Berkeley say it takes 29 percent more fossil energy to turn corn into ethanol than the amount of fuel the process produces. For switch grass, a warm weather perennial grass found in the Great Plains and eastern North America United States, it takes 45 percent more energy and for wood, 57 percent.It takes 27 percent more energy to turn soybeans into biodiesel fuel and more than double the energy produced is needed to do the same to sunflower plants, the study found."Ethanol production in the United States does not benefit the nation's energy security, its agriculture, the economy, or the environment," according to the study by Cornell's David Pimentel and Berkeley's Tad Patzek. They conclude the country would be better off investing in solar, wind and hydrogen energy.The researchers included such factors as the energy used in producing the crop, costs that were not used in other studies that supported ethanol production, said Pimentel.The study also omitted $3 billion in state and federal government subsidies that go toward ethanol production in the United States each year, payments that mask the true costs, Pimentel said.Ethanol producers dispute Pimentel and Patzek's findings, saying the data is outdated and doesn't take into account profits that offset costs.Ethanol is an additive blended with gasoline to reduce auto emissions and increase gas' octane levels. About 3.6 billion gallons of ethanol were produced last year in the United States, according to the Renewable Fuels Association, an ethanol trade group.The ethanol industry claims that using 8 billion gallons of ethanol a year will allow refiners to use 2 billion fewer barrels of oil. The oil industry disputes that, saying the ethanol mandate would have negligible impact on oil imports.___

Ethanol is a 'gift' to ADM. Read up on the many service problems Brazil had &has with ethanol. Our cars (plastics and elastomers) used in the fuel system do not perform well with ethanol. expect failures and leaks (and fires?) Engines do not do well in stop/start-service, need more frequent oil changes.

And the new energy bill includes fuding to double ethanol production.

Wonder how much that will cost us in elevated fuel prices to pay for its production? Don't you love legislators that ignore facts? Who needs science?

To be fair one should look at the cost of MTBE production since these are substitutable [except for MTBE leak smell cost-----water clean up].

Obviously a little ethanol in your drinking water makes vodka which is a lot better than MTBE.

What they should really sell is a non oxygenated [no ethanol no MTBE] super ultra premium. Understand that current premiums only cost 4-7 cents more per gallon to make and to deliver to the tank farm..........

A true premium should contain more BTU thus get better mpg which is not the case today with oxygenates.

I found a BP store in the area that is selling non-oxygenated 92 for use in collector cars and for other certified needs. I now consider my Q to be a collector car. I've run two tanks through it so far - noticed a very small improvement in gas mileage, maybe 5%, on the first tank - will refill the second today.

Has anyone found any data regarding ethanol and injector winding failures? I Googled for - ethanol winding failure injectors - and didn't come up with much. It seems Wisconsin gas is still causing injector failures:

zerothread?id=146771

(Sorry squeefoo, I didn't mean to get off topic.)