Can we see chain guides from the Q45 engine bottom?

Post by **tangalora** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:57 pm

I've read much about the chain guide situation for the 90 to 93 Q45; but don't recall ever seeing this particular question (you may admonish me if I missed it).

Do you think there is a way to tell if the guides have been replaced by looking (somehow) up the 90 Q45 from where the oil pan was?

Post by **tangalora** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:02 pm

If the problematic chain guides can actually be seen from below, what special tools would be required?

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:41 am

Heh, never thought to mention it while you were in there. No one ever pulls an oil pan *before* doing the guides, cause pulling the front cover is a little more straightforward. You might not need anything to see all guides (heck, you're looking at one right in the pic right there). Maybe a mirror. I'll dig up some pics if I can that might help.Are you considering doing the guides since you're in there?

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:57 am

Labeled parts. The tension-side guides are the ones that fail. Driver's side fails first usually, probably because the passenger-side one is closer to vertical.

Collection of parts for the chain guide job.

Original, failure-prone guide.

Close-up of new guide installed. Note that it's a 2-piece design, nylon-clad metal piece on one side and a thick beefy nylon piece on the other side.

Post by **tangalora** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:24 am

DAEDALUS wrote:Are you considering doing the chain guides?

What would you do if you found this in your oil pan?

Post by **tangalora** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:42 am

This is the horror story I awakened to when I dropped the oil pan.I've been working all evening on this and it's nearly daylight.Dunno how to interpret the photo below ... but it might be bad.

I've summarized the main Q45 chain-guide replacement sources below.NOTE: I did not list the articles, mpg, jpgs, etc. which came up NOT FOUND.

I'm sure I missed some good ones. Can folks post any missing article references to this thread for all to benefit.

Post by **tangalora** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:49 am

Ooops. Forgot to list the references I dug up on Nico.

BTW, your chain-guide photos are MOST EXCELLENT!Very helpful. Like a map.

How do you show multiple illustrative photos in a single posting, and with helpful captions to boot?

The guides that are redesigned are the tension-side guides. The one that almost always fails is the driver-side guide.Light blue RTV around the timing cover is likely factory.-----------------------------------------------------------Photographic summary of a chain guide replacement: http://www.q45.org/guidereplacement.htm ... -----Photo of tension side guides and slack side guides: zerothread?id=53660-------------------- ... ----Timing chain parts list: zerothread?id=15226-------------------- ... -----Chain Guide step by step:zerothread?id=1632--------------------- ... -----Chain engineering: http://www.ustsubaki.com/chainguide.html http://www.ustsubaki.com/section8b.html#0020 -----------------------------------------------------------Chain guide poll: zerothread?id=12551-------------------- ... --Checking chain guides: zerothread?id=7058--------------------- ... -Replacing chain guides:zerothread?id=15861-------------------- ... Supporting the engine for chain guide replacement: zerothread?id=27044-------------------- ... --Aligning marks for timing chain guide replacement: zerothread?id=71463-------------------- ... ---Tension side is metal reinforced:zerothread?id=92067-------------------- ... --Checking for new chain guides: zerothread?id=15648http://forums.nicocl ... -----Chain guide replacement hints: zerothread?id=26454http://forums.nicocl ... -----Chain guide noise debug: zerothread?id=16281-------------------- ... ----------

Post by **Q45tech** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:33 am

Now comes the tough work[ compared to simple oil pan replacement]......chain guide replacement without retiming the engine.

Change the oil pump as it is probably crunched inside [gear mesh out of tolerance].

I would pull the valve covers and look at cams for wear to decide about the bottom end bearings..........you must pull engine to an engine stand to even think about bearing/ ring replacement.

A 15 year old engine without new style guides a nightmare waiting to happen. What you don't know about the insides [guide condition] can surely hurt you.

Don't give up if you've gotten this far!

Post by **elwesso** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:15 am

T it looks like youve caught this just in time.. I thought you already did your guides, didnt you?? or that was something else, i was going to ask...

THe oil strainer is clogged with guide pieces..... With the oil pan removed, the front cover is waiting to come off..... Hell, my engine is out of the car, id almost be tempted to sell (or give?) you my updated guides from the 94.....

Like Dennis said, your so far, DONT GIVE UP! We're here for you!

YouTube · Post by **Jesda** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:56 am

THANK YOU Alora and Robert for posting those photos! Awesome reference and a good reminder to drop my oil pan and find out whats down there.

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:04 am

Oh my! The stuff in the pick-up...looks like some of it might be metal chunks from the pan? Disastrous! Dennis is right--before you spend any money on parts, get an indication the engine is worth it. If it was me, I would pull just the passenger-side valve cover (easiest) and look at/measure those bearings. If they're good, then replace the oil pump and do the guides. But only when you're done with everything will you be able to measure the oil pressure and get that warm fuzzy feeling that the engine is healthy.

Posting images is done with typing "[img]" first, then the link (http://blahblahblah), followed by "[/img]".

YouTube · Post by **Jesda** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:15 pm

http://www.tivocommunity.com/t...bcode

Post by **tangalora** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:04 pm

I'm not at all sure what to do now.

It's like I was expecting Christmas to arrive today, and, then someone suddenly moved it undeterminately further away on me. I had fully expected to put the new oil pan on today and be proudly driving the Q45 to work tomorrow.

Should I put the new oil pan, mounts, bushings, crossmember, etc. back on, and then, (with the engine no longer obstructed by the overhead support), figure out what to do about the chain guides, oil pump, oil-pump chain, etc. ?

Or, should I leave the oil pan, crossmember, alternator, comopressor, etc. off, and immediately (with the engine still supported from above) order a chain guide kit & other parts from Joe?

Personally, I'd rather finish one job before starting another (if it makes sense).

P.S. The first thing I did was put a magnet to the pieces; everythings non-magnetic. Not a shard of metal was to be found in the pan or in the oil pickup.

P.S.S. I don't have a web site to host images so I'll just upload them (I'll keep them small but not too small so as to miss detail).

Post by **pito11213** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:39 am

Well I was under the impression that removal of the oil pan was secondary to the guides. Only if you found broken guides do you pull the pan. The actual job of replacing the guides does not require removal of the motor or the peripherals that you listed. IMO

YouTube · Post by **Jesda** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:52 am

Tangalora had an accident and the oil pan was severely damaged as a result.

For hosting: http://q45.org/hosting.html

Post by **911/Q45** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:02 am

It will be much easier to R&R the lower front cover with the oil pan removed. It fits pretty tightly between the pan and the upper front covers.

Post by **tangalora** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:20 pm

I really hate to ask this ('cause the work load seems to be expanding like a dry sponge in water) ... but I haven't replaced my spark plugs in a while.

Q: Does a chain guide replacement make the plug work any easier?

That is, should I take off a few more things to make the plug access easier?

(Be gentle with me if this is a stooopid question as I've never done the plugs and have been too timid & embarrassed to ask before this.)

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:24 pm

tangalora wrote:Q: Does a chain guide replacement make the plug work any easier?

Not unless you need to remove the valve covers for any reason (jumped time, replacing chains, etc). Very little labor overlap otherwise, except removing the plastic covers and intake hose.

Post by **Q45denver** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:00 pm

Isn't it much easier to secure the timing chain so that it doesn't jump time with the valve covers off? It is probably much easlier to do everything with the engine out of the car as well. At least your engine doesn't have any serious sluge.

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:09 pm

Definitely. You can just tie-strap the chain to the tooth (exhaust side, anyway). Even if the cam snaps around the chain will be in the same spot. With the valve covers off jumping time isn't really that much of a concern to begin with, since you can reset timing right there.

Post by **mattd1979** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:26 pm

Does anybody know if tangalora ever finished the job with the chain guides or did she end up getting rid of the car? I remember reading up to this point when my mom got her 91 Q back in November of '04 and noticed that the progress stopped .

Post by **maxnix** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:08 pm

Seems like Tangalora developed serious health problems and sadly may in fact no longer be with us.

She left a sterling benchmark for well researched, well written, and well edited posts.

Post by **szh** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:29 am

maxnix wrote:Seems like Tangalora developed serious health problems and sadly may in fact no longer be with us.

Yes. We have been unable to track her down ... may be more permanent than just missing at NICO.

maxnix wrote:She left a sterling benchmark for well researched, well written, and well edited posts.

Indeed!

Z

Can we see chain guides from the Q45 engine bottom?

Can we see chain guides from the Q45 engine bottom?

Re: Can we see chain guides from the Q45 engine bottom? (tangalora)

The story of O (oil pan)

Re: The story of Oilpan

Re: The story of Oilpan (tangalora)

Re: (Q45tech)

I'm not at all sure what to do

Does a chain guide replacement mix with new spark plugs

Re: Does a chain guide replacement mix with new spark plugs (tangalora)

Re: Does a chain guide replacement mix with new spark plugs (DAEDALUS)

Re: Can we see chain guides from the Q45 engine bottom? (tangalora)

Re: Can we see chain guides from the Q45 engine bottom? (mattd1979)

Re: Can we see chain guides from the Q45 engine bottom? (maxnix)

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