Was wondering has anyone used turn plates to align their s13's instead of bringing it to a shop. I just figured why not spend the extra buck and do it myself. I plan on playing with the alignment alot since i got coilovers and alignments from a shop is not cheap. is this tool worth it? should I get something else such as an wheel alignment gauge? some more info on DIY alignments would be very helpful.
plateshttp://www.harborfreight.com/c...45742
gaugehttp://www.harborfreight.com/c...30167
DIY alignment
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nismostate
- Posts: 795
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- Car: all sorts of motorsports
Hunter 811 with DSP600 sensors and WinAlign. http://www.hunter.com/pub/prod...x.htm
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nismostate
- Posts: 795
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- Car: all sorts of motorsports
You can do a pretty decent DIY alignment if you are VERY careful and double and triple check things. It easily will take longer than going to a shop with a Hunter machine to get a DIY alignment even close.
The easiest and cheapest way I've found is to drive onto 4 1'x1' linoleum squares that have a little bit of soapy water on them(so you can adjust toe easily).
Then take two jackstands and place them in front and behind the car. Try to get them in the center of the car the best you can(i.e. you should have a tape measure here). Tie a string between them at a good height off the ground depending on your ride height(maybe 4-5" high?). Make sure it doesn't hit anything on the car.
Get underneath the car and measure from the suspension mounting points to the string(a machinist's ruler with 1/32 or 1/64" marks helps here). It should be symmetrical(the same on both sides). Be very accurate here. If you notice the string slanting one way or the other based on your measurements, move the jackstands until you have the CENTERLINE of the car.
Now just measure from the front of the tire/rim to the string, then the back to the string. Subtract these two measurements and the difference is your toe. Positive will be toe-in using this method, negative will be toe-out. It is VERY important to measure at the same point of the rim/tire for these two measurements and the ruler must be perpendicular to the measuring surface.
This method will ensure there is zero thrust angle on the front and rear of the car. In simple terms, it means that both the tires won't be pointing out into la-la land because you didn't align them with the centerline of the car.
So honestly, it is a pain to do, especially your first time. If you are sloppy about it, the results will definitely show.
BTW - just because race teams use this method, doesn't mean it is superior to a well calibrated Hunter machine. The string method CAN be accurate, but it takes much longer, and is MUCH more prone to user-induced inaccuracies.
The easiest and cheapest way I've found is to drive onto 4 1'x1' linoleum squares that have a little bit of soapy water on them(so you can adjust toe easily).
Then take two jackstands and place them in front and behind the car. Try to get them in the center of the car the best you can(i.e. you should have a tape measure here). Tie a string between them at a good height off the ground depending on your ride height(maybe 4-5" high?). Make sure it doesn't hit anything on the car.
Get underneath the car and measure from the suspension mounting points to the string(a machinist's ruler with 1/32 or 1/64" marks helps here). It should be symmetrical(the same on both sides). Be very accurate here. If you notice the string slanting one way or the other based on your measurements, move the jackstands until you have the CENTERLINE of the car.
Now just measure from the front of the tire/rim to the string, then the back to the string. Subtract these two measurements and the difference is your toe. Positive will be toe-in using this method, negative will be toe-out. It is VERY important to measure at the same point of the rim/tire for these two measurements and the ruler must be perpendicular to the measuring surface.
This method will ensure there is zero thrust angle on the front and rear of the car. In simple terms, it means that both the tires won't be pointing out into la-la land because you didn't align them with the centerline of the car.
So honestly, it is a pain to do, especially your first time. If you are sloppy about it, the results will definitely show.
BTW - just because race teams use this method, doesn't mean it is superior to a well calibrated Hunter machine. The string method CAN be accurate, but it takes much longer, and is MUCH more prone to user-induced inaccuracies.
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nismostate
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:56 pm
- Car: all sorts of motorsports
I still dont understand why I cant get those plates from harbor freight and align it with those. I would think the gauge itself will tell you what you need to know without going underneath the car and measuring it. Of course the machine is going to be exact but im sure it uses calculations just like we would have to. To me it's just like using a pencil and paper instead of a calculator. What is the purpose of the plates and gauge then??
BTW: red pathfinder was my first car :P
EDIT: The factory service manual uses the alignment turnplates also.
BTW: red pathfinder was my first car :P
EDIT: The factory service manual uses the alignment turnplates also.
If you didn't understand what I wrote down on stringing the car up, then you need to either research ALOT more, or just forget about DIY alignments.
I'm not sure how the Harbor Freight toe-gauge works since it talks about measure from one edge of the tire to the edge of the other tire on the car - which is definitely NOT the way you measure toe. Maybe you measure from the centerpoint of one wheel to the edges of the other tire and then make a toe measurement that way and ensure the thrust angle is zero, but I can think of all kinds of problems that you would have to overcome that this $13 gauge probably isn't going to do.
BTW - the purpose of the soapy linoleum tiles is the exact same as the toe-plates, since they by themselves won't tell you the tire's toe setting at all.
I'm not sure how the Harbor Freight toe-gauge works since it talks about measure from one edge of the tire to the edge of the other tire on the car - which is definitely NOT the way you measure toe. Maybe you measure from the centerpoint of one wheel to the edges of the other tire and then make a toe measurement that way and ensure the thrust angle is zero, but I can think of all kinds of problems that you would have to overcome that this $13 gauge probably isn't going to do.
BTW - the purpose of the soapy linoleum tiles is the exact same as the toe-plates, since they by themselves won't tell you the tire's toe setting at all.
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SkylineDriven
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:47 pm
In defense of Nismostate... how would DIY be any different from the shops that still do manual alignments... some of the old schoolers REFUSE to buy Hunter machines for their shop (Hunter is the best alignment machinery on the market that I know of).
Some shops just use mirrors, leveler/guages, strings, rulers, and pencils to align and I know for a fact that at least one of those shops even brags about how they can align just as good as a machine can.
Some shops just use mirrors, leveler/guages, strings, rulers, and pencils to align and I know for a fact that at least one of those shops even brags about how they can align just as good as a machine can.
SkylineDriven wrote:In defense of Nismostate... how would DIY be any different from the shops that still do manual alignments... some of the old schoolers REFUSE to buy Hunter machines for their shop (Hunter is the best alignment machinery on the market that I know of).
Some shops just use mirrors, leveler/guages, strings, rulers, and pencils to align and I know for a fact that at least one of those shops even brags about how they can align just as good as a machine can.
What I've been saying is that you CAN get basically as accurate as a $200k Hunter Laser Alignment machine with just a piece of string, a GOOD ruler, paitence and most importantly, know-how.
I think the original poster is looking at this as a "quick and cheap fix" to getting an alignment at a shop. Honestly, it really isn't after having done quite a few DIY alignments. You can do it fairly inexpensively, but it will be very time consuming to get accurate results.
I encourage nismostate to pursue this if he's still set on DIY alignments, but he didn't even know what toe is or how to measure it, which is about as basic as it gets on alignments. If he tried to do a DIY alignment right now, he'd be in WAY over his head, even if he tried to follow my quick write-up I posted up(which everybody seems to be glossing over, it tells you EXACTLY what you need to do to align your car). You guys still seem to think alignments have to do with smoke and mirrors, and are actually recognizing what an alignment shop is adjusting, and how you can emulate this adjustment to your desired specs without an expensive machine.
I'll probably do a quick DIY alignment on my car before it gets the "full suspension job" - but at the end I'm going to get a good race shop to help me set up a more streetable setup, then a more track friendly setup.
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nismostate
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:56 pm
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Thanks for your help guys but I do know what it requires for alignments. I've been messing with offroad trucks for a few years and it's a ***** to align those. I've researched more into DIY alignments and it's pretty straight forward. It's all just simple geometry. easy especially since im way pass calculus 4! haha. anyways, a buddy of mine talked to a TRUE alignment place that has been doing self alignments for years. They said that those plates at harbor freight would work only if you know how to use it. I figured that I am going to get a place to align my car first so I know what perfect alignment is. Mark all the spots and then use those plates to tweek the camber, toe, and caster. Other than that, using the string method for toe and doing simple measurements for camber is pretty damn easy. instead of using strings, I found out that using a laser will be a lot easier. I bought me a laser with a tripod from harbor freight for 10$.