Late last week, my BRAKE PADS WORN light lit up (always when it's freezing outside)!

After looking at the factory shop manual (BR section, particularly BR-17 on "Pad Replacement"), I read the (copius) brake-related posts on NICO.

None seemed to explain complete step by step procedures with detailed photos AFAIK.

Seems straightforward enough though to document the steps as I perform them; and then ask for criticism of my methods (for improvement next time).

My only question at this starting point is: Are there any TSBs or not-in-the-manual steps that you think I should be aware of BEFORE I begin the 1990 Q45 (125K miles) brake wear sensor diagnosistic & pad-repair process?

I'll try to help leverage your efforts so that everyone benefits in this new brake-pad R&R thread.

Attachment: nico_q45_brake_pads_worn_warning.jpg (11993 bytes, downloaded 4011 times)

I guess there is no way for me to choose the best pad by federal standards (like I choose oil (SH for example) or tires (traction, treadwear, or temperature).

That means I'm stuck depending on someone's (usually biased & untested) opinion on what the best friction material would be, so, I'm forced to go with OEM defaults.

Therefore, all I've done, so far, is to stop by the local auto-parts store to pick up a set of front pads for about fifty bucks (they didn't have the sensors for the rear pads so I declined the rears).

QUESTION: Is there a federal standard that brake pad friction materials must meet that I can use to help me purchase the right pads for a 1990 Q45 driven rather calmly under average unstressed conditions (I don't race the highway patrol, for example).

Attachment: nico_q45_raybestos_pads.jpg (38942 bytes, downloaded 4272 times)

The problem shows up in heavier than norm cars like the 4300 pound Q vs the average 3300# FWD midsize.

The Currently available front oem pads [U91] are an advance CERAMIC design [as are the U85 rear pad set].

The oem pads have an FF friction standard on rear and and FE friction standard on the front...............but these are very broad Federal Standard numbers.......like 0.35-0.45 C of F that's a 30% variance in friction.

We would never consider using a non oem pad compound too many compliants and we have sampled at least 10 company's compounds............most have problems in COLD [below 50F] friction........some are down right scarey!

The factory pads from Joe are about what you mentioned paying for those Raybestos pads you pictured. The shim kit isn't that expensive either, and if you take everything off and aren't missing shims, you can always send them back.

The only thing I can think of that may not be really clear in the manual is the fact that the slide pins and slots in the calipers that hold the pads in place should be lubricated. I'd just get a tube of "brake caliper grease" at the parts store unless you have a high temp grease you like better.

Can't wait to see another future article in progress. I always think of taking pictures when I do stuff, but then get "on a roll" and forget about it.

Heath

I agree picture slow the process down (way way down). For one, lighting conditions dictate a LOT. And, annotating the photos is WORK! But, by adding relevant pictures, I try to IMPROVE OUR READER'S EXPERIENCE. For you mechanics, maybe those nearly featureless words in the FSM are all you need; but for non-professional amateur DIYs like I am, a good set of clear pictures gives me the insight (& courage) to tackle each once-in-a-decade job much more than FSM bland descriptions like "remove engine" do.

Back to brakes, Dennis' OEM point is understood. The OEM has the money to potentially test each pad with each automobile (but does Nissan REALLY test new pads made in 2004 against a 1990 Q45 every year)? They build 'em to spec right? Can't Raybestos or Bendix obtain that spec? The NY trial lawyers would be swarming over them if they didn't, wouldn't they?

I am never one who blindly believes if you pay more you get more. If you pay more for the equivalent part, all you did was pay more.

I really hate to pay more for something just because I'm merely afraid to buy the apparent equivalent at some other place. For example, my last set of pads was no problem to me, (admittedly one who's easy on the brakes). Now, maybe there was something I don't know ... something that only experience would tell me. Experience I'll never get on my own.

All I know is my hand-written drive log notes they were "Raybestos PG Plus 100% Asbestos Free" pads & the work order merely notes the mechanic "spliced the right-front & right-rear brake wear sensors." BTW, I see no mention if the 4 shims, 4 shim covers, 4 piston seals, 4 dust covers, 4 copper washers, 2 air bleeder caps, & 4 pin boots (which are all mandatory replacement parts according to page BR-18 of the 1990 Q45 FSM) were replaced. So, I'd rather do the job myself (if I can) - because I can do it right. But, that means I have to choose the friction material this time.

That's why I'm trying to ascertain the meaning of Q45tech's' words so very carefully. Dennis has the experience & knowledge of a thousand of me (e.g., he was right on the mark on my fuel pump controller repair, as was Heath on sanding down the sunvisor collar). Then again, I innocently bought an el cheapo tap & die set to do the sunvisor threading job Dennis suggested & (because I didn't know any better) just this week had to purchase a better Craftsman set (which actually "felt" and "cut" better in my hands), so, caveat emptor. Point is, the kind of Experience & Knowledge Dennis and others on NICO have is worth a LOT.

Then again, I can't help but quote what Consumer Reports lists in the October 2000 article on Brake Shops which clearly opines "When we tested common name-brand pads last year, all performed competently. We didn't find much difference in stopping distances between the cheapest and costliest."

However, I guess to confuse the issue, CR also noted, somewhat ambigiously, "still, it's a good idea to buy higher-priced pads, which tend to dissipate heat better and could extend the discs' life" (which irks me because of the lack of specific detail from CR in that last generic statement is a bit irresponsible for a consumer reporting agency).

More recently, in September 2003, in a CR article titled "Brake Pads: What to Look For?", CR ominously warned "there are no government regulations covering replacement brake pads." They then list the four types of brake pads available today:[list=1]
[*]Semimetallic ("These pads are more durable and have excellent heat transfer, but also wear down rotors faster, have intrusive noise characteristics, and may not perform as well under low-temperature conditions.")
[*]Low-metallic NAO (better "heat transfer and braking" but "more brake dust" & "slightly noisier.")
[*]Nonasbestos organic ("softer and create less noise" & "wear faster" & "create more dust.")
[*]Ceramic ("more expensive" & "cleaner and quieter, and offer excellent braking characteristics without wearing down the rotors.")
[/list=1] Furthermore, this recent CR article noted there are two voluntary certification standards we should look for[list]
[*]Dual Dynamometer Differential Effectiveness Analysis (D3EA certification), and,
[*]Brake Effectiveness Evaluation Procedure (BEEP certification)
[/list] Apparently "D3EA tests are proprietary and more expensive, but they're also completely independent and tougher to pass." according to CR. Ominously, CR warned "NHTSA tests in the 1980s concluded there was a significant reduction in braking performance when there was a differential between front and rear replacement pads as compared with original factory parts.". Hmmmmm...

They explain that to mean only certified pads meet OEM specifications; therefore (since we usually replace only one axle at a time) we should always replace with pads that meet OEM specs (either D3EA or BEEP, apparently).

Whew! Now how does that help me decide? To my dismay, there is NO MENTION of D3EA or BEEP certification anywhere in the "Raybestos PG Plus" front pads I picked up (for $64.90 including tax). I called the "Brake Parts Inc, McHenry, IL" number on the package (800-323-0354) & they said they'd send me a "Material Safety Data Sheet" for part number "PGD486M". I'll let NICO know what that contains if it is relevant information.

I ascertained that "Joe" is apparently http://www.infinitipartsusa.com aka http://www.everythingnissan.com or 888-216-5328. His web site (and that of the almost exact duplicate, http://www.nissanparts.org at 888-384-1723) merely lists the pads without going into the type & certification, the price being (before shipping & taxes)[list]
[*]1990 Q45 Front Pads: $ 64.49
[*]1990 Q45 Rear Pads: $ 56.24
[*]1990 Q45 Front Rotor: $ 81.21
[*]1990 Q45 Rear Rotor: $ 81.21
[/list]I'd normally patronize my local guy; but the weight of the NICO recommendation might easily outweigh my inherent loyalty if I could really see proof Joe's pads are better for my Q.

I did post a question to Joe on his web site asking some of these questions. By the way, I could NOT find a kit on his site for the mandatory 26 standard replacement parts (as noted in the FSM); do you know how to find that kit on his web site?

My decision is leaning toward going with brake parts from Joe ... if for nothing else, you NICO guys recommend him. It will be a bit tougher on me since I don't yet know which axle it is (nothing wrong with doing both I guess) and I don't know the status of the discs yet (no sense on putting good pads on untrued discs). Also, I don't know if Joe sells the mandatory hardware parts kit either. I guess I'll wait for his response to make a decision.

By the way, for a DIY with calipers & a dial gage (a present when I was a kid from my Dad who worked in a machine shop), how would I check the rotors for runout as shown in the 1990 Q45 FSM on page BR-20? Is there a jig I can buy at Joe's web site that holds the dial gage in place as I manually rotate the discs?

Attachment: nico_q45_brake_wheel.jpg (10884 bytes, downloaded 4004 times)

The 90-96 Q has gone thru 3 different oem brake compounds.
The U90 were semimetallic and stopped in 129 feet or better dusty as hell and wore fast
The U91 are ceramic and didn't dust as much and maybe only added 5 feet to braking distance and added 10,000 miles to life.

The Q uses a lot more rear braking bias [%] than any other RWD car....[because it can with ABS/LSD] with oem style 170 treadwear index tires.
The rear brakes are more critical and may even wear faster than the front [the pad thickness is the same].

Friction compound balance is the critical factor [over the pad temperature range].

Simple stopping distance tests are not very reliable since they don't report the foot pressure required to activate the ABS over the stop, nor do they record starting and stopping pad temperature changes.

Since magazines test 60,70,80 mph to zero single stops new cars are optimized to brake well in these tests........pursuit braking test are more reliable in seeing what you are getting in the long run.

Tires are the real variable and can change a 129 foot stopper into a 120 or a 150 foot stopper.

Study the pdfs on this site:
http://www.nlectc.org/testing/brakepads.html

Note the burnishing proceedure on page 14 of 202 for each new pad/rotor prior to testing. Very important!

Some pads got 400F hotter than oem Ford pads and obviously took longer to stop. Some pads got 400F colder than oem [on rear] obviously misbalanced friction]].

As Dennis reminds us, engineering is all about compromises. Usually, the OEM engineers are the only ones whoe spend the time to get it right for real world use.

There have been several excellent post by Dennis previously about braking technology.

Discover the power of the button!

The problem is that the inside always warps more than the outside, so not a test unless used to precision mount [select holes to studs] the rotor after a precision trueing.
0.001" would be better and is possible if the hubs and inside hats are clean............I even grind my hubs!

Love 'em.

Next swap I'm gonna try the EBC's with drilled/slotted rotors.

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All brake pads cost the same to make [+- a dollar] assumming all the shims , sensors are supplied............the problem is too many middle men in the chain from factory to consumer.

Obviously German pads cost the most since their factory wages are higher than US.......but they are closer to the supplier of Cashew shells.

http://216.239.37.104/search?q...UTF-8

"Before we choose a friction material for a particular application, we first look at what the OEM used on that vehicle. Then we pick a material that closely mirrors their formulation. If the OEM material is a ceramic, we will use a ceramic."

Most Quality aftermarket try to copy oem! FRICTION COMPOUNDS
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf30322.htm

Everybody has their secret formula which is known by everyone else...........competitive anaylsis!

Frank amicably picked up the phone at http://www.everythingnissan.com (888-216-5328) and quickly took my order for:[list]
[*]1990 Infiniti Q45 Front Brake Pads (Part #41060-64U91) $64.49
[*]1990 Infiniti Q45 Rear Brake Pads (Part #41060-66U85) $56.24
[*]Front Hardware Kit (Part #41080-60U27) $45.70
[*]Rear Hardware Kit (Part #44080-60U25) $45.70
[*]3-day ground shipping (via Airborne Express) $10.46
[*]Total: $222.59 (sans rotors or caliper rebuild components, which may be needed, later)
[/list] EverythingNissan doesn't apparently sell tools (so I couldn't get the dial-gage holder for runout there), but, Frank kindly pulled the hardware kits off the shelf when I asked to confirm the contents and described its components (per axle) to me as[list=1]
[*]4 x shims
[*]4 x backing plates
[*]8 x guides
[*]1 x brake grease
[/list=1] Frank helped me understand that, apparently, those other mandatory replacement parts noted on page BR-18 of the '90 FSM are only needed if I were to rebuild the calipers (which makes sense). The only place we had any contention was on Dennis' comments above about the actual COMPOSITION of the friction material. We just weren't sure if the OEM U91/U85 pucks I just purchased were bona fide ceramic or just semi-metallic. Joe eventually got on the line (I appreciate him taking the time to talk to me, even though the order was already a fait accompli either way), saying he always thought the OEM replacement pads were semi-metallic, but, since he had the highest praise for you NICO guys, admitting humbly, "I've been corrected more than once by Dennis", we left it at asking you guys to confirm their true nature.

This just pushed my brake-maintenance job by another weekend - but the good news is we'll get another weeks' worth of research added to the knowledge leve.

Q: Can anyone confirm the true nature of the U91/U85 pads?

I am glad our sponsor everythingnissan is taking good care of you.
Did you tell Frank you were from here (NICO)?

Fred..:)

Also, I gave the local dealership a chance, but at $347.50 (with tax), even though everything was in stock & they are open on Saturdays, this dealership leaned a hundred bucks too far on the wrong side of the equation:[list=a]
[*]Front pads & sensor $95.96 plust tax
[*]Rear pads & sensor $80.98 plus tax
[*]Front & rear hardware kits $71.66 each plus tax
[/list=a] I like to patronize the local shops, but they have to work with me too (these are the same guys who did the aforementioned cheat on the sunvisors; but, since I didn't know any better at the time, I forgive them if only because I never asked how how well the job was gonna' be done, so it's really my fault).

Putting my trust in Dennis again, I ordered the ROTOR RUNOUT/BALL JOINT GAGE DIAL INDICATOR 0-1IN; FLEX-ARM from the answering service for S&J Discount Tools at 888-810-1025 . I already have a dial guage, but, the answeing service for [email]tools@sjgreatdeals.com[/email] said they don't sell the parts separately.

[COLOR=red]YIKES! I just went back to the S&J web pages to confirm the part number for this posting, and was very disconcerted to find out two very confusing things.

1.http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/sto3d103.html
lists a $75.16 + $10.95 shipping = $86.11 part # 3D103 described as "STORM BY CENTRAL TOOLS 3D103 - ROTOR RUNOUT/BALL JOINT GAGE DIAL INDICATOR 0-1IN; FLEX-ARM" with the accompanying photo.

1. Confusingly, http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/cen-6450.html lists a $132.25 part # 6450 described as "CENTRAL TOOLS / CENTRAL LIGHTING 6450 - ROTOR RUNOUT/BALL JOINT GAUGE DIAL INDICATOR 0-1IN; FLEX ARM" with a nearly exact photo.

2. Worse yet, BOTH descriptions state "With optional attachments check tire and wheel run-out".

I inadvertantly ordered # 3D103 and I belatedly noticed the 'optional attachments' admonition.

Bearing in mind that they specifically mention the additional attachments are needed for "tire and wheel" run-out (and not, specifically, brake rotor run-out) ...

Q: Did I order the right tool & attachments to test Q45 brake rotor runout?

Attachment: sjdiscounttools_1775_15478308.jpeg (9234 bytes, downloaded 3791 times)

Oooops. I just noticed my thread formatting got screwed up in my last post, so I'll repeat the salient questions:

Can someone advise me on the open issues:

Q1: What is the true COMPOSITION of the U91/U85 friction material?

The photo above is for the $75.16 # 3D103.
The photo below is for the #132.25 # 6450.
Both seem to have the same description, noting additional parts are required for "wheel" runout (but not mentioning brake disc runout).

Q2: What additional tools should be purchased from S&J to check disc runout?

Thanks ... sorry for so many questions ... I hope to document the whole replacement sequence so the next DIY gets a hand up on the matter, so your efforts will not be wasted - they will be leveraged!

Attachment: sjdiscounttools_1771_2327500.gif (14305 bytes, downloaded 3759 times)

Here's a little question I never got around to asking when I measured the run-out on mine. With the rears you can hold the hubs in place with the e-brake in order to torque the rotor down, but with the fronts you'd need to reinstall the caliper each time (for the five different combinations) and have an assistant press down on the brake pedal. I was able to tighten the fronts down some just using the torque wrench and sort of "slinging" them tight - can't really explain that, but hopefully you know what I mean.

Does anyone have a better idea of how to hold the fronts in place without removing and reinstalling the front caliper five times and having an assistant there to press the brake pedal?

One more thing... I wouldn't worry about replacing all of the shims and hardware if you find that everything is still there (from previous brake jobs, and it appears to be in good condition. You might be able to return some of those hardware kits if you don't have to open them.

Heath

I'm wondering if I wasn't a little light on the grease between the caliper pistons and brake shims.

Heath

If it annoys you too much go to U93 oem pads. They spent a million dollars getting rid of the sound.........the shims and pads work together and the shims and different pads are not tuned!

Try rebedding the pads to the rotors with the 10 full 60 mph stops within 10 minutes. Otherwise you'll have to make a light smoothing rotor cut........0.001-0.002".

Problem especially bad with drilled front rotors and MM pads.

I'll try rebedding...

Thanks!

Heath

I finally dropped the drilled rear rotors about a year ago when they finally wore out to near minimum thickness...........can't tell any difference [warping time] on the rear except no more whirring noise.

While trying to pin point the noise I went as far a installing a brand new oem caliper on the worst side of front......new pads, used pads, new shims, old shims.........nothing except recutting the rotor solved the problem. [temporarily].

Right now, I love the combination. Anything new is preferable to old and worn though, so I'll see how they wear.
__________________
Brian
1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

Discover the power of the button!

Unfortunately its a matter of individual skill. I used an Autozone, where the manager patiently and professionally took off .003, then checked, and, if necessary, did it again. He sold me my own bit! All for $8.00 each. At another nearer my house they said that drilled rotors could not be turned and had to be replaced.

Now, I take them to the independent Porsche service place that works on my wife's 911. You will have to shop around.

It seems pretty clear that the vise-grip flex-arm dial-gauge products (both listed above) from [email]tools@sjgreatdeals.com[/email] will work.

That recommended http://www.sjdiscounttools.com site was very quick to CHANGE the entire descriptions of these two products, based on my emailed request for clarification. They admitted, by email, they made a mistake by accidentally replicating the same description for the two (what they say are different) tools. (I still don't see the difference between the two tools, but, who am I to quibble - I chose the $75.16 part vs the $132.25 in that case because when in doubt, go low).

Besides, it's already ordered and on its way.

Some suggested the magnetic mount, with or without the flex arm (at vastly different prices) as shown in[list]
[*]$43.87 http://store.yahoo.com/sjdisco....html
[*]$105.27 http://store.yahoo.com/sjdisco....html
[/list] One pointed out the mag-mount problem with aluminium hubs being non-ferrous ...

For the record, here are what the suggested magmount brake disc run-out tools look like:

Attachment: nico_mag_mounts.jpg (6441 bytes, downloaded 3680 times)

Heath

Many times the differing prices have to do with quality of gauge and visegrips. Cheap seems to work. Since you are not using them daily to make your living.

What's the best way to acomplish this on the fronts? Do you have to remove and reinstall the caliper five times?

Heath

By re-indexing, we mean you first mark the rotor position with respect to the hub, then you remove the rotor, turn it by one lug bolt clockwise, and then torque it back to specs (using Dennis' aforementioned washers to replace the space now missing by the wheel not being there). Almost certainly, you'll NOT want to bolt the calipers back on, so, presumably, the brake calipers will only be mounted to the rotor for your first runout test. The assumption is the rest of your four or five rotor runout checks per side will occur sans the calipers (why bother to re-mount calipers when they play no role in the runout test).
The references I refer to are listed below, so that the next person doing
a brake job gains a head start on us:[list]
[*]Popular Mechanics article titled "SERVICING BRAKE DISCS":
[*]http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_care_sat/2001/9/sat_mech_sept_01/print.phtml
[*]
[*]Article discussing "Understanding Brake Rotor Service":
[*]http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf110322.htm
[*][URL=http://members.aol.com/carleyware/library/brakefix.htm]
[*]Article titled "DOING A COMPLETE BRAKE JOB":[/URL]
[*]http://members.aol.com/carleyware/library/brakefix.htm]
[*]
[*]Hand calculations for brake rotor runout:
[*]http://www.se-r.net/brakes/runout.html
[*]
[*]PDF book chapter on "Disk Brake Diagnosis":
[*]http://www.autoed.com/webbyte/santini_erjavec/pdf/brakesch31.pdf
[*]
[*]Dodge TSB 05-008-03 titled "Brake Shudder or Vibration":
[*]http://www.dodgetruck.org/tsb/2003/05-008-03.htm
[*]
[*]Guide to Building & Truing Front Rotors:
[*] http://www.ultimategarage.com/bbrotors.html
[*]
[*]Shop Guide to Brake Rotor Runout:
[*] http://www.ultimategarage.com/bbrunout.html
[*]
[*]Automotive discussion about "Types of movement: Axial, Radial, Lateral":
[*]http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/nov2003/mech.cfm
[*]
[*]PDF document on GM brake-rotor lateral runout correction:
[*] http://www.sts.sae.org/service...s.htm
[*]
[*]Guidelines for a Complete Brake Job:
[*] http://www.forparts.com/techbosbrakejob.htm
[*]
[*] Engineering talk about the design of rotors:
[*]http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf10312.htm
[*]
[*]PDF javascript:checklength(document.vbform);article on "Dealing with brake pedal pulsation":
[*]http://www.mightyap.com/Data/TT80.pdf
[*]
[*]Discussion of lateral runout and other brake issues:
[*]http://www.brakeinfo.com/html/lateral.html
[*]
[*]Short FAQ on brake repair jobs:
[*] http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/FAQs/BrakePads/
[*]
[*]PDF GM TSB on cleaning brake rotor & hub for accurate measurements:
[*]http://www.carquest.com/techbulletins/brakes/1999/CQB9918.pdf
[*]
[*]PDF about on-the-car brake-resurfacer sales material:
[*] http://www.braketru.com/docume...F.pdf
[*]
[*]GM TSB with measurements of scoring, runout, thickness, etc.:
[*] http://www.procutinternational....html
[*]
[*]Unusual descriptions of brake rotor situations:
[*]http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm
[*]etc.
[/list]

Attachment: nico_rotor_runout.jpg (19921 bytes, downloaded 3581 times)

However, note the photo below (also from the URLs I posted previously) which shows brake rotor runout being tested with the calipers swung out of the way.

Attachment: nico_brake_rotor_diagram.jpg (15973 bytes, downloaded 2384 times)

Many recommend 0.0005" as what is really needed.

I succeded in getting less than 0.001" once without using brakealign shims. After about an hour of fine grinding and polishing the hub and inside rotor hat.

I doubt that one car in 10,000 has the brake really checked [matched] with a dial indicator - takes too much time as most owners are uneducated about it........all they want is the $99 special.

Obviously GM has problems as do most other brands or there won't be proceedures and TSB telling you how to fix the problems.

Try getting the dealers to do it, surely at least one tech has the test equipment...............they will just use the on the car lathe instead of fixing the bearing or hub.
But if the bearing wobbles it will warp a good new rotor.

See why I say that brakes are the most expensive maintenance item on the Q.........not new pads or rotors just labor to keep the system in spec. Say 4 hours every 6,000 miles= $700

Of course tires plus Accurate rebalancing every 3,000 miles is a close runner up at $25 per tire on a Hunter 9700.=$500

I have to do this myself since even I won't spend that much.

This is not claimed list price, but, actual sales price (sans tax & shipping); all for the exact same item; which all goes to prove, yet again, that you don't necessarily get more if you pay more ... all you get is you pay more.

(Admittedly, the price isn't all that different, as long as you stay away from the 268 dollar offering).

Attachment: central_6450_boxed.jpg (15175 bytes, downloaded 2324 times)

I'm very disturbed about one item which was not adequately resolved in this thread yet.

Today I called 800-662-6200 (press 7) & spoke to "Michelle" in the Infiniti Consumer Affairs office on 18501 South Figueroa Street in Gardena CA 90248-0191

I asked her for the COMPOSITION of the front pads (41060-64U91) and of the rear replacement pads (44060-66U85).

She came back quickly (a bit too quickly) after supposedly talking to the technical experts with the verbatim quote "these pads are a mixture of ceramic & semi-metallic materials". I questioned that (especially since she didn't make any distinction between the front & rears and asked her to doublecheck.

Again, she came back with the same answer from the Infiniti experts. I asked another dealership - which said "CERAMIC" for the fronts, semi-metallic for the rears. Yet, a dealership only miles away from that one said "SEMI-METALLIC" for both.

Now, I'm committed to the OEM pads already (having returned my Raybestos semi-metallics); but, honestly, if Infiniti can't even tell me what material their pads are, it sort of ruins my justification for going OEM. Heck, I can go to the local parts store and I'm sure they'll sell me pads that truly are ceramic or truly are semi-metallic.

QUESTION: Doesn't anyone in Infiniti-land really know what material these U91 & U85 pads really are? (Is there an address other than the one I list above where I can ask Infiniti?).

Attachment: pad.jpg (2166 bytes, downloaded 2293 times)

As far as my question about the caliper - the problem I had is finding a way to hold the rotor and hub securely while torquing the lug nuts down. Without the caliper in place (and an assistant pressing the brake pedal) how do you hold the fronts steady while torquing them down? Although the caliper swings up, the caliper bracket is too close to allow you to take the rotor off and rotate it to the next position.

Heath

Looks like, this weekend, weather permitting, I'll be skinning my knuckles against cold hard steel & writing to tell about it.

For the record, the $45.70 #41080-60U27 Nissan "HARDWARE KIT-FR" for the front apparently consists of the following:[list]
[*](4) #41083-60U04 SPR-RET, PAD
[*](4) #41083-60U05 SPR-RET, PAD
[*](4) #41084-60U00 SHIM
[*](2) #41085-60U00 SHIM-COVER, INNER
[*](2) #41085-60U01 SHIM-COVER, OUTER
[*](2) #41003-03P25 GREASE (2.5g)
[/list] Whilst the $45.70 #41080-60U25 Nissan "HARDWARE KIT-RE" for the rear apparently consists of the following:[/list]
[*](4) #44083-44F00 CLIP-PAD
[*](2) #44084-60U00 SHIM-OUTER
[*](2) #44084-60U01 SHIM-INNER
[*](2) #44085-60U00 COVER-SHIM
[*](2) #44086-60U00 SHIM-INSULATOR
[/list] Bear in mind, the similar-cost Raybestos pads shown in the photo below contained only the equivalent of the (4) #41084-60U00 SHIM hardware (both pad sets contained the right-side electronic wear sensor).

By the way, in diagram SBR019B on page BR-20 (front) & BR-24 (rear) of the 1990 Q45 Factory Shop Manual, Infiniti clearly shows the dial-gauge check of rotor runout (max = 0.0028 inches, 0.07 mm) is performed with no calipers & with ONLY two opposing (12mm x 1.25 threads per millimeter) open-ended nuts securing the rotor to the wheel hub.

The corresponding check for rotor thickness (front 1.024 inches, rear 0.315 inches) also shows no calipers & the two 12x1.25 open-ended nuts securing the rotor to the hub.

However, as noted in both my recent sunvisor repair & in my original fuel-pump-and-controller repair, the FSM is known to be wrong (in both my cases at least). So, I'm inclined to assume it's wrong also in this situation; and therefore to go with Dennis' suggestion to use the original 5 cap nuts with washers replacing the space left by the wheel no longer being there.

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Heath

(I'm not hounding you on this, just seeing if anyone knows)

I have been able to get 18 months [24,000 miles and 4 trueings]out of one 0.006" shim and still maintain 0.001" finished error.

Hopefully the new calipers will extended the warp time some, I am at 5800 miles since the last trueing so far so good.

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the problem I had is finding a way to hold the rotor and hub securely while torquing the lug nuts down. Without the caliper in place (and an assistant pressing the brake pedal) how do you hold the fronts steady while torquing them down?

What I did was jam a pry bar (which I obtained for free many years ago from a thief (long story) who tried to steal my 280Z yet inexplicably left the prybar on the ground. That caused me to buy a 300Z, which came with an alarm system.) 'told you it was a long story.

Anyway, the thief's pry bar did the trick. I just gently placed it into the rotor vents and as I torqued down the rotor, the pry-bar handle pressed against the kingpin (or strut or whatever that thingey is) allowing me to torque the lug nuts down for checking runout.

Tangalora

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