new turbo, how much fuel to add? t3/t04b 57-t 63A/R

[clovers525e]

i'm installing this turbo on a s14 sr20det and i was wanting to drive it a bit before i'll have enough for a wideband. but what i basically need to know is what psi i should go for?

now correct me if i'm wrong, but if this turbo flows roughly twice that of my stock t28, then i would want half the psi to equal the same amount of "presssure" right?

i can raise and lower my fuel map via a variable resistor wired into my maf +-2V so if it is running anything but rich i can add more fuel. i also have a megan adjustable fuel pressure regulator that i havent hooked up but i dont see how that can do anything my little maf mod cant.

i think like a 5 or 4 psi spring would work best for this.

[Blown240sx]

maybe you should consider getting a tunable ecu and tune it before you blow your 2000 dollar motor up.

[Kalypso]

now correct me if i'm wrong, but if this turbo flows roughly twice that of my stock t28, then i would want half the psi to equal the same amount of "presssure" right?

more or less... yeah, but this isnt a line of reasoning you can depend on for safety.

i think like a 5 or 4 psi spring would work best for this.

yes it should... people do it and they get away with it, but lay off if it starts to bog and jerk alot.

be cautious and itll be fine

[pauliedrft]

im running a t3t4 50 trim stock injectors will only handle 9 psi And i have wide band running 9psi i have 12.5 /1 af ratio which is perfect ,at 5 you should be in the 11 to 1's for your air to fuel . But get a wide band asap And spark plugs bk7re , .028 gap .

[Kalypso]

^ i love people that know exactly what to answer

[pauliedrft]

P.S. i have had issues of not holding spring pressure so a treadstone or a turbonectis vbc is the cheap way to equalize the pressure .Or ebc if you have or can afford one .I would hit 9psi 4500rpm and slowly drop off to 4 by 5000rpm (no it not a boost leak ) ive spent the last 4 months on my days off tracing problems down and a ball and spring mbc wont help it either .But i can hit 9 bleed of to 5psi by 6000rpm now once my vbc gets in im going to do a whole write up so others wont have to spent 4 months being stubborn to figure it out. .

[clovers525e]

i'll shoot for 5 and just move the maf voltage up a little from were it is now, that should insure my sr doesnt get thirsty and will keep her belching flames out the exhaust. (black bumper spot)

super clean build paulie, i'm shooting for something similar. would you happen to know the difference between the s14sr with the heat fins on the front cover? mine origionally came with a red wc ecu, poop harness and a t28 :/ it now has a black na ecu and new harness. i'll keep that in mind about the boost controllers, i wont need one for now, i'll just run off the wastegate spring

i was wondering how that wastegate was working out for you? i might take that route since i splurged on the turbo (turbonetics, but jb not bb)

any suggestions on a cheep oil feed line? i'm leery about the ebay ones and i'm unsure how to avoid any restrictors in the line since mine is a journal bearing. i'm sure it will all make sence when i get everything collected and see it in person. fuel management will be a old school emanage blue, which i love using with a laptop, "take it easy".

i'm wondering if i can hook a lc1 up to my laptop? innovate's software looks pretty cool, i think tuning would be a peace of cake on it.
Modified by clovers525e at 8:42 AM 10/27/2009

[Blown240sx]

Even JB require a restrictor. The JB I believe is like a .60 or something and .35 for BB.

[kentuckyslider]

maybe you should consider getting a tunable ecu and tune it before you blow your 2000 dollar motor up.

what he said. I don't see why anyone would try to put a 57trim on an untuned SR??? You are going to lose all kinds of TQ at the lower boost and the oem T28 will kill your 57trim in area under the curve. Keep the t28 on it until you can tune the car.

SR AT 5 PSI WITH A 57TRIM IS SLOWER THAN A T28 AT 10+PSI!! Hands down.

[pauliedrft]

i'll shoot for 5 and just move the maf voltage up a little from were it is now, that should insure my sr doesnt get thirsty and will keep her belching flames out the exhaust. (black bumper spot)

super clean build paulie, i'm shooting for something similar. would you happen to know the difference between the s14sr with the heat fins on the front cover? mine origionally came with a red wc ecu, poop harness and a t28 :/ it now has a black na ecu and new harness. i'll keep that in mind about the boost controllers, i wont need one for now, i'll just run off the wastegate spring

i was wondering how that wastegate was working out for you? i might take that route since i splurged on the turbo (turbonetics, but jb not bb)

any suggestions on a cheep oil feed line? i'm leery about the ebay ones and i'm unsure how to avoid any restrictors in the line since mine is a journal bearing. i'm sure it will all make sence when i get everything collected and see it in person. fuel management will be a old school emanage blue, which i love using with a laptop, "take it easy".

i'm wondering if i can hook a lc1 up to my laptop? innovate's software looks pretty cool, i think tuning would be a peace of cake on it.

Modified by clovers525e at 8:42 AM 10/27/2009

Ok you have a newer notch top like 97 and above .Wastegate spring wont hold my pressure at 9 psi i bleed of to much .YOU NEED BOOST CONTROLLER get the cheapt3t4 adapters from ebay ive been running mine for 3-4 months now and no problems,as for lines -10 an ss lines for return and-6 an for feed go to jegs45degree fitting -10an and go to local performance shop for your feed line jic fittings are the same as -an lines ..

[clovers525e]

sweet, thanks paulie i had no idea what size fittings i needed lol, i'll get the local turbo shop to put it together for me. i owe that dude something for all the info i've gotten from him anyways. i'll go ahead and spend the money and get a name brand boost controller then maby a blitz or a profec e01 would be sweet.

kentuckyslidermy t28 is shot, the turbine is hitting the housing and it has about 1.5-2mm in and out shaft play. first "whirl" sound i herd i stopped driving the car, checked shaft play, and barrowed my brothers truck, now he needs it back and i need my car, so i dont like it as much as you but i dont have a choice. i'm not ignorant, i know the difference between rich and lean, i'm not looking for power, i'm looking for something i can drive to school.

[pauliedrft]

It will leave you room to grow , buy once not twice is my new moddo .Which mani are you running I understand the whole getting your car running . Especially when its your means of transportation .If you can afford it ebc is the way to go . but i bought my treadstone for 63.00 shipped usps so keep it in mind if you in a hurry .

[clovers525e]

mine is something like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors..._1165

my manifold has a slightly different design but still not equal length. main reason i got it was for the wg dump tube and the new section needed to connect the downpipe to the back of the turbo. i got it in the other day and the craftsmanship was not too bad. i'll still replace it down the road with something with some r&d behind it and something larger then just a 38mm wastegate, i just want to get the wideband, piggyback, injectors, fuel rail, and fpr out of the way, then probably rebuild/upgrade my turbo, and then a new manifold.

today is payday though and i should have my emanage, oil lines, boost controller, and ebay wastegate taken care of, i'll post some pics of the progress soon.

[clovers525e]

this was taken while i was putting the motor in, since then its gotten FAL fans (the expensive a** kit) and a new harness. i dont want anyone to get the wrong impression, i'm not really into buying cheep parts, exhaust is hks, bov is greddy, radiator is koyo, 5 lug is all oem with s14 rears and j30 fronts, but some stuff like the fmic i skimp on b/c ultimately i dont think i'll regret it.


Modified by clovers525e at 6:50 AM 10/29/2009

[Blown240sx]

I dont know about the new ebay manifolds but the ones I had with my 60-1 always blew the wastegate off the manifold. It would bust the welds and metal every time. I went through three manifolds in 1 month. I ended up getting an equal length made for 400 bucks. It was thick wall equal length.

[clovers525e]

haha, i'll keep an eye out for that.

[pauliedrft]

how much hp you looking for stock fuel rail (ive been told ) will handle 500 hp you dont need upgraded fuel rail . just get some 810cc and be done 740cc will net around 378 to wheels at 17psi another nico guy is running my same setup im working for except im going to 810cc injectors .

[clovers525e]

i want around 300 for now, 400ish once i rebuild the bottom end so it seems the stock fuel rail will work fine then. my fuel pump is a walbro 255 and i have a s14 sr20 fuel filter waiting to go in so besides injectors fuel should be good.

i have a feeling i already know the answer to this question before i ask it, but the later s14 sr didnt happen to get the larger injectors did it? i was wondering since they also used the better turbo.

last injectors i bought were for a t2 fc, wayyyyy back, *sigh* memories.

[kentuckyslider]

kentuckyslidermy t28 is shot, the turbine is hitting the housing and it has about 1.5-2mm in and out shaft play. first "whirl" sound i herd i stopped driving the car, checked shaft play, and barrowed my brothers truck, now he needs it back and i need my car, so i dont like it as much as you but i dont have a choice. i'm not ignorant, i know the difference between rich and lean, i'm not looking for power, i'm looking for something i can drive to school.

Sorry dude I didn't know your situation. I didn't know it was your DD. Your mani will flow much better than the cast logs or the one you linked from ebay with more direct paths from each cylinder to the turbo. Just get your injectors(740's on the stock rail will be good for 400whp) and take it to Chris at performance garage(Smyrna) and have him dyno tune it at about 15psi with the emanage. Should be good for 300 whp on the 57trim and it looks like you will have all the supporting mods you need to make that number safely. Good luck.

[DrifterProdigy85]

Biggest thing here is the tuneing. Not just AFR but timing. Like you said, your putting a turbo on thats roughly twice the flow rate of stock. That doesnt mean its gonna be flowing that though. The effeciency of the compressor is gonna make a difference on how it flows. Besides all that, You gotta tune the timing as well as the AFR. Using resistors will change the MAF Voltage and doing that puts your Timing in a different cell since that relies on the MAF voltage too. If you gotta use the bigger turbo, then dont boost at all till you get a proper tune or retard your timing a degree or two and run super low boost just to be safe. Tuneing can make or break these engines very quickly.

[clovers525e]

well, i guess since this thread keeps getting brought back up i could at least update the progress.

i got my emanage back the other day, and for only 150 bones, not a bad price i'd say. guy still has my harness and link cable so it got me thinking how much i would like to get the injector harness since its only forty bucks and it replaces maf harness that comes with the emanage. it will let me see injector pulse width, duty cycle, all sorts of stuff. i like the duty cycle option, this way i know where my stock injectors stand as far as keeping up. i also dug out an old j30/z32 maf i had laying around and made up my mind it needs to be swapped in. this will effectively eliminate the variable resistor that is wired into my maf because i am currently running a s13 ka23e maf. the resistor is needed because the stock sohc maf reads a several V to high for the sr, here is the writeup i made explaining it all. http://www.240sxforums.com/for....html

took me a while but i got my hands on all the software i want for the emanage including a peace for data logging and auto tune when you plug in a wideband then all i gotta do is build me another dku-5 cable and i'm good to tune. here is the software running on windows 7 64bit, surprisinglyand here is the progress with the turbo, i'm still waiting on the wastegate to arive in the mail and i still need to go get the oil line and an adapter for the return line (barb fitting for the bottom of the turbo) but the ic piping is cut and i'll have to take it to the welding shop to have it finished.

btwthanks kentucky, i'll check it out, i was going to have it tuned at binks turbo diesel so going to a performance shop would probably prove a little wiser of a decision.

DrifterProdigy85i almost forgot the timing would need to be retarded a little, i was considering getting the ignition harness for the emanage but latter down the road (since i still need injectors and dont want alot of boost to start with anyways) would you recommend i just adjust the timing via the cas or actually take it a step further and let the emanage control it? i know the timing maps are just as in depth as the injector maps, i honestly wouldnt know where to start with that. (fuel is no problem, start with too much, use a wide band to work backwards from there)

its getting close!
Modified by clovers525e at 8:34 AM 11/2/2009

[DrifterProdigy85]

You really need to remap the entire ignition and fuel table because that turbo is gonna be spooling alot later and flowing alot more air than stock.

[Blown240sx]

Funny how this is exactly what I said in the SECOND post.

[clovers525e]

it doesnt really seem that hard, i figure i'd start with two degree retarded, which is probably way to much, starting from 3500 increasing to -2 degree at redline based off the boost pressure (5 psi starting out, then move up from there). until i get a good base line. i could use a knock sensor but i dont think i'll really need it since i want a fair safety margin.

and like i said, use auto tune (closed loop type thing) for the fuel map, data log, and then plug in the values into the injector map.

here it is running on a miata turbo. http://s525.photobucket.com/al...R.flv

i'm the techy type so this stuff is cool to me.

but uh, just to get this right for the oil line, i dont want no stock banjo bolts so i think it goes something like this:

block 12mm (1.25 pitch) to -4an maleline 36" or 32"? -4an female to -4an female ss braidturbo is -4an male to 1/8th npt male1/8th npt (.065 restrictor) to 1/8th npt

looks like about 50 bucks if i get premade lines with crush fittingsone side with a 90degree bend to mount on top of the turbo.

and i found a flair fitting for the bottom drain so i can use runner oil line. i think the water lines are 14mm x 1.5 but i need to know how deep, so i'll have to check next time i go home. and the hole for the barb for the wastegate vacuum on the turbine housing should be 1/8th npt.

turbofittings.com has the 12mm x 1.25 to -4an adapter and pegasusautoracing.com has the lines for 25 bucks encase anyone else wanted to know.

[pauliedrft]

Im running 11 psi on my setup now at 11/1 afr .But im also vtc s14 notch top so i think it make a difference .I may try 12 lbs at the track tomorrow i hope to put down 13.5 in the 1/4 . With 94 octane

[kentuckyslider]

Man, if you'd just get a rom tune and some 740"s you'd be looking at 400+whp setup at 18+psi. You really need to be able to control the timing before you will be able to make any real power but you are getting very close. I Know I'm the 3rd person that has said that. Take it to Chris(615-220-4560) he is close to you and has tuned 10+ 400+whp SR20's with everything from nistune-power FC-my JWT rom tun and safc piggybacked.