the chip on ebay

[javi-air]

has anyone ever put that chip they sale on ebay on ur ecu??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...28370

[MeanGreenS13]

dont waste your money on stupid crap man. and dont waste money on the stock ECU, get a full blown standalone or at least a true piggyback like emanage ultimate or similar.

[ca18detgabby]

dont waste your money on stupid crap man. and dont waste money on the stock ECU, get a full blown standalone or at least a true piggyback like emanage ultimate or similar.

you do realize LOTS AND LOTS of members here run Eprom chips and have nothing but success with them.

[articzap]

Standalone > NISTUNE > EPROM > Full piggy back > SAFC > No tune.

[r34 gtr]

^ I agree, but I think I would want to run one of those piggyback systems in addition to an EPROM tune, so I could do some very fine adjusting and get the air/fuel ratios juuuust right.

Stand alone > NISTUNE > EPROM + Emanage > EPROM + SAFC > Emanage > SAFC > nothing

[articzap]

I'll agree with your updated list.

[MeanGreenS13]

i never spoke badly of NISTUNE or SAFC or a TRUE KNOWN EPROM CHIP. but, would you honestly trust an EBAY chip that CLAIMS it has this this and this done, on your car?

i just do not trust ebay electronics and i dont know why any of you would encourage such a thing either? to each their own tho, EBAY ELECTRONICS = JUNK

only good things on ebay ive ever seen are their exhausts and *manifolds (*when properly re welded) and SOME of the intercooler CORES, the piping kits almost never fit right.

[articzap]

Based on what you first posted it sounded like you hated all EPROM chips.

[MeanGreenS13]

never ASSUME. im not a noob. ive been through all this **** 10 times over on the SR and RB sections of the forums, ive had almost every decent engine in the nissan garage. VG, VQ, RB, SR, and now CA. i know what works and what doesnt.

[mbmbmb23]

Most ebay tune ecus are just copies of known tunes (Horsham/Norris Designs/Etc.)...with the injector and MAF values altered to your request. Email the seller and ask what tune his chip is "based off of" *wink* *wink*

-m

*edit* I just saw the auction, he claims up to 360hp with 440cc injectors and t28 turbo.....yeah right....maybe at 120% duty cycle on a gtir turbo at 20+lbs boost
Modified by mbmbmb23 at 8:31 PM 11/2/2008

[ca18detgabby]

never ASSUME. im not a noob. ive been through all this **** 10 times over on the SR and RB sections of the forums, ive had almost every decent engine in the nissan garage. VG, VQ, RB, SR, and now CA. i know what works and what doesnt.

o god someone was mis-understood.

btw, you are the one who always have said in the past "ebay is great place to find tons of parts, you just have to know what you are getting"

now this isnt the case?

to tim

what would be the added benfit of the Emanagement over the SAFC with the eprom? I mean beyond having to burn a million and one chips?

[Buddyworm]

Stay away from ebay chips. Get it tuned properly or at least buy a chip from a reputable tuner.

Standalone > NISTUNE > EPROM > Full piggy back > SAFC > No tune.

Fact.

what would be the added benfit of the Emanagement over the SAFC with the eprom? I mean beyond having to burn a million and one chips?

I'm not Tim but meh, I'll take a swing at this one.

I'd expect the problem lies in the way the SAFC accomplishes its task. Ie: It feeds the ECU a different (read: false) MAF voltage based on the percentage difference you dial in on the unit.

So let's say you want to lean out your mixtures to get them closer to 12:1 by trimming the fuel with the SAFC, it will do this by telling the ECU (via the MAF signal) that the engine is at a lower load point than it actually is. Lower loads require less fuel so what the SAFC is doing is telling the engine it's sucking in less air than it really is.

This is all fine and dandy and it does work BUT, and this is a very big but, the load point on the timing maps (at least with our ECUs) is also determined by the MAF voltage. Now the basic concept of ignition timing is that less of it is required the more air you flow*, so as boost goes up, timing advance should go down. However, the ECU is reading a lower airflow than is the reality because of the SAFC and will thus be accessing a lower load point on the maps which, by the nature of timing map design, has higher timing values. This CAN be a good thing, but it can also be bad because you have obsolutely no control over the timing, which means you can ping if the SAFC causes the ECU to access parts of the map with timing values advanced enough to do so.

*I won't get into the why at this point, for the purposes of this post it's enough to know that this is how it works.

The Emanage functions on a similar "interceptor" concept except it's a way more comprehensive device with the ability to tune timing and fuel maps independantly. But you're still altering signals after they've been sent, a method which becomes stupendously redundant once you realize that you can achieve exactly the same thing cheaper and without electronic sleight of hand.

I think those that believe devices like the SAFC are necessary or even handy for fine-tuning have bought into some marketing bull****. If your tuner can't dial in your fuel ratios without the help of an SAFC he sucks at his job and you should find a new one. I mean, if SAFC is your only means of tuning, it's your only means of tuning. But then it begs the question, "why didn't you drop the extra 50 bucks and get Nistune?" (I'm aware that by now I probably come across as a bit of a Nistune fanboy but go ahead, tell me I'm wrong.)
Modified by Buddyworm at 11:33 PM 11/2/2008

[MeanGreenS13]

Stay away from ebay chips. Get it tuned properly or at least buy a chip from a reputable tuner.

Fact.

I'm not Tim but meh, I'll take a swing at this one.

I'd expect the problem lies in the way the SAFC accomplishes its task. Ie: It feeds the ECU a different (read: false) MAF voltage based on the percentage difference you dial in on the unit.

So let's say you want to lean out your mixtures to get them closer to 12:1 by trimming the fuel with the SAFC, it will do this by telling the ECU (via the MAF signal) that the engine is at a lower load point than it actually is. Lower loads require less fuel so what the SAFC is doing is telling the engine it's sucking in less air than it really is.

This is all fine and dandy and it does work BUT, and this is a very big but, the load point on the timing maps (at least with our ECUs) is also determined by the MAF voltage. Now the basic concept of ignition timing is that less of it is required the more air you flow*, so as boost goes up, timing advance should go down. However, the ECU is reading a lower airflow than is the reality because of the SAFC and will thus be accessing a lower load point on the maps which, by the nature of timing map design, has higher timing values. This CAN be a good thing, but it can also be bad because you have obsolutely no control over the timing, which means you can ping if the SAFC causes the ECU to access parts of the map with timing values advanced enough to do so.

*I won't get into the why at this point, for the purposes of this post it's enough to know that this is how it works.

The Emanage functions on a similar "interceptor" concept except it's a way more comprehensive device with the ability to tune timing and fuel maps independantly. But you're still altering signals after they've been sent, a method which becomes stupendously redundant once you realize that you can achieve exactly the same thing cheaper and without electronic sleight of hand.

I think those that believe devices like the SAFC are necessary or even handy for fine-tuning have bought into some marketing bull****. If your tuner can't dial in your fuel ratios without the help of an SAFC he sucks at his job and you should find a new one. I mean, if SAFC is your only means of tuning, it's your only means of tuning. But then it begs the question, "why didn't you drop the extra 50 bucks and get Nistune?" (I'm aware that by now I probably come across as a bit of a Nistune fanboy but go ahead, tell me I'm wrong.)

Modified by Buddyworm at 11:33 PM 11/2/2008

AMEN. Hence the reason i personally run EMANAGE over anything else. I had a haltech, it got fried, couldnt afford another one. Went with emanage and im happier than the 2 weeks i had my haltech!

[float_6969]

Being a standalone owner, I'll be the first to tout it's benifits. BUT for those who are on a limited budget, I think the eprom + safc/emange combo is a safe, cheap way to do it.

As was stated earlier, those ebay chips are merely copies of the real things. I have a copy of a Horshams Stage III chip on my computer right now. I could very easily modify it for a different MAFS and injectors. They are making a killing off of those chips on eBay, even at $40. The chips are only like $5, and they probably buy in large enough quantities, that they pay even less than that.

So you've got $40 for the ebay chip and you can pick up a used SAFC for $150. That's less than $200 for a pretty decent setup that will net you decent power and good reliabilty.

Buddy worm, what you said is true about the SAFC screwing with the timing, BUT if you've got a chip that is already setup for your injectors and MAFS, the SAFC isn't going to have to modify the signal very much, and probably won't effect the timing by more than +/- 1°.

[r34 gtr]

Its also nice to be able to adjust for altitude and temperature changes. I know when I was running an SAFC and a chip, the time I said "no more!" I was driving along and decided to see what 4th gear would do me, so I mashed it and right about 6000rpm the SAFC's inability to alter timing raised its ugly head...3 times before I could lift. BANG BANG BANG!! Yeah, sold it almost immediately. It had run fine when it was warmer out, but when the seasons changed lo and behold it was no longer in proper tune.

That isn't to say I couldn't have changed it, but come one, the SAFC is an expensive paperweight in my book.

[turbos12]

Being a standalone owner, I'll be the first to tout it's benifits. BUT for those who are on a limited budget, I think the eprom + safc/emange combo is a safe, cheap way to do it.

As was stated earlier, those ebay chips are merely copies of the real things. I have a copy of a Horshams Stage III chip on my computer right now. I could very easily modify it for a different MAFS and injectors. They are making a killing off of those chips on eBay, even at $40. The chips are only like $5, and they probably buy in large enough quantities, that they pay even less than that.

So you've got $40 for the ebay chip and you can pick up a used SAFC for $150. That's less than $200 for a pretty decent setup that will net you decent power and good reliabilty.

Buddy worm, what you said is true about the SAFC screwing with the timing, BUT if you've got a chip that is already setup for your injectors and MAFS, the SAFC isn't going to have to modify the signal very much, and probably won't effect the timing by more than +/- 1°.

so those ebay chips really do work?

[ca18detgabby]

Buddy worm, what you said is true about the SAFC screwing with the timing, BUT if you've got a chip that is already setup for your injectors and MAFS, the SAFC isn't going to have to modify the signal very much, and probably won't effect the timing by more than +/- 1°.

this point was what got me confused..... as then the SAFC is just a fine tune tool and saftey parachute.

Its also nice to be able to adjust for altitude and temperature changes. I know when I was running an SAFC and a chip, the time I said "no more!" I was driving along and decided to see what 4th gear would do me, so I mashed it and right about 6000rpm the SAFC's inability to alter timing raised its ugly head...3 times before I could lift. BANG BANG BANG!! Yeah, sold it almost immediately. It had run fine when it was warmer out, but when the seasons changed lo and behold it was no longer in proper tune.

That isn't to say I couldn't have changed it, but come one, the SAFC is an expensive paperweight in my book.

interesting. didnt take Temp and alt into consideration........ then again in florida we dont have either of those issues to speak of

[r34 gtr]

Yeah, you wouldn't think Alabama would be a whole lot different, but she be indeed!

Now my car is equipped with barometric correction and intake air temp sensors! Yay!

[MeanGreenS13]

wtf you talking about? go to north FL, it gets hilly, hell even gainsville and claremont have hundreds of feet in evelation change. and as for temps... what was last week? hahahah =P

[r34 gtr]

I was thinking elevation change like driving her to go skiing in Montana, where I would go from +/- 200 feet to +/- 7500 feet.

[MeanGreenS13]

tim... im joking lol... im originally from and moving back to massachusetts... trust me... I KNOW ELEVATION AND TEMP CHANGE hahaha

[bentvalves]

yea move to New England already so I can sAmoke your a**

Tiiim, easy on that bottle tonight.

Its only monday.

[Buddyworm]

Buddy worm, what you said is true about the SAFC screwing with the timing, BUT if you've got a chip that is already setup for your injectors and MAFS, the SAFC isn't going to have to modify the signal very much, and probably won't effect the timing by more than +/- 1°.

Agreed. However my one caveat is that the degree to which it affects timing is going to depend on the map and how it's scaled. It's true that there's generally not much difference in timing between adjacent cells of the map but you've been at this longer than I have so you know just as well as (and probably better than) I do that a few degrees can mean the difference between a working engine and a paperweight. I just wouldn't want to spend money on an expensive band-aid that might, should the moon be full and the planets perfectly aligned, blow my engine because it made the ECU access the wrong cell in my timing map.

Sure, as you said, if the tune is done properly the SAFC doesn't have a very big job to do but then that begs the question, why bother with it? Spend the chedda on some dyno time and dial things in properly.

[DALAZ_68]

Yeah, you wouldn't think Alabama would be a whole lot different, but she be indeed!

Now my car is equipped with barometric correction and intake air temp sensors! Yay!

how do you set up for Barometric correction, here in SoCal we got some midnight canyons, (well i used to) and i would notice elevation effecting the motor

[bentvalves]

go standalone and ditch the MAF.

[float_6969]

Sure, as you said, if the tune is done properly the SAFC doesn't have a very big job to do but then that begs the question, why bother with it? Spend the chedda on some dyno time and dial things in properly.

I couldn't agree more. But you'd be surprised at the number of shops that don't know how to, or don't have the equipment to chip tune.