The real turbo Versa thread.

[Fahaka]

OK so you want to turbo your versa, but you feel the need to buy a complete kit due to the complex nature of turbo charging...fear not Versians. I will attempt to build a list to allow you to safely turbo charge your versa for minimal cost and the best availble parts.

The first most important part of a turbo kit is the engine management. Now since the Versa doesn't appear to have a rom tune or daughter board option a piggy back fuel controller will be necessary. Stand alone controllers are another route, but they are more complex and usually not diy. So for now we will use the SAFC neo which is the latest generation of apex'i piggy back fuel controllers. SAFC neo $270 shipped (egay).

Now the safc has a bad reputation for blowing up motors, but don't fret that is what wide band oxygen sensors are for. NGK wideband $320

Now we can turbo charge the versa without changing the fuel injectors as long as we keep the boost to 5-6lbs, but where is the fun in that? 10psi or so should net, conservatively, a 40-60hp gain. More likely than not this will require new fuel injectors. I suspect the MR18's fuel injectors are the same as the QR25's if so then deatschwerks has 550cc injectors for $299.

Since we will need to upgrade the fuel injectors, we will also need to upgrade the fuel pump. Walbro $100

Since we are upgrading the fuel, and the fuel pump, a higher flowing MAFS (mass air flow sensor) may be needed, although the stock versa mafs may be adequate, I really don't know. Most Nissans are 5v afms so a 300zx mafs will work, but so will a sohc 240sc mafs and they flow plenty for turbo'd 200hp 240sx's so we'll go that route. This will not be plug and play so make sure you get the pig tail for the harness and the proper info for wiring the mafs into the versa harness. It isn't hard, but it does require information that if isn't accurate can render your new mafs worthless. KA24E MAFS $50 check out the nico classifieds for more info.

Intercoolers come in all shapes and sizes. Pull off the front bumper and see what you can fit. Order an intercooler only from ebay $100.

Buy a good turbo. New Garrett T25's can be purchased for about $500. Used T25's, with some life left, can be found for $100, and they can also be rebuilt...make sure to get one with an internal waste gate (less fab work)

Buy a t25 o2 housing from intense or other parts supply house, you'll need it when making the exhaust. Make sure it will fit your turbo before buying it. $100

Most people want to have a baller turbo exhaust manifold to make things look "Cool" I say just fab a new extension off of the stock cast manifold to place the turbo in the same position as zpi's kit, which should just be a "U" shape or a few strait pieces with some 90's. If you can't fab this yourself, most diesel/welding shops can, and they can also fab your intefooler into a real intercooler. This work will be totally custom and may vary depending on your ability to negotiate or who your friends are. but figure $500 for intercooler plumbing, exhaust manifold redirect, and custom dump pipe.

You'll probably also want a new 3" dump pipe back exhaust at this point...figure another $300 at least depending on how you do it.

You will also need turbo coolant lines and lubricant lines, plus you will need to route them from the engine to the turbo and back. Have a professional do this unless you are confident that you know how to do it right. Hoses fittings and lines plus instalation $400

SAFC $270wideband $320Deatschwerks 550cc $299Walbro $100KA24E MAFS $50ebay intercooler $100used T25 $100t25 o2 housing $100Custom Fab engine bay pluming $500Custom Fab 3" Exhaust $300Turbo coolant & lube lines $400

Grand Total $2539.00

figure another $500 for iridium plugs, new hoses and belts or other miscellaneous fasteners and parts that you will need to complete this kit and an hour on the dyno to tune the safc properly.

I think that covers everything, but if any of you have anything to add please do.

**EDIT** I fixed some grammatical errors.
Modified by Fahaka at 11:36 AM 8/21/2007

[matt_a]

Gee...that seems like a lot of (warranty-voiding) work. If you would have spent the extra $3,000 up front I bet you could have just bought a different car with 60 more hp.

[Fahaka]

of course remove all of these parts when having warranty work done

[bullcitybaddest]

Do you still have the t25 turbo and what kind of condition is it in and how much will it be shipped to 27707?~Speed!!!~

[Clipsed]

sounds fun, gl when you throw a rod or fry a piston!

[MIdnkight-lude]

Not to bust your balls, but have you put together the turbo for the versa yet?

Question two. have you seen how much room you have to truly work with on the Versa, i can prob clearly say that not a lot of people have actually lifted up the V, and check out the engine space underneath the car, there isn't a lot of room to work with, hence why fox went with a turbo that wrap around to the top, if you were to run a turbo near the manifold you would need a baby turbo, and new pipes, re using the existing manifold, doesn't look fesable the last time i check underneaths.

[justmerging]

a properly set up system won't melt a piston or throw a rod. The main factors involved in these are not enough fuel and too much boost respectively. you can run up to 7 psi on the versa with no problem and if he does get the 550cc injectors, fuel pump and management with a tune he will be fine.

As far as space limitations, go with a rear mounted setup (see http://www.ststurbo.com for more info). this would eliminate the space limitation and eliminate the necessity for an intercooler at that low of a boost level. It would require more piping but piping is easy to fit and bend to where you need it to be.

[versa2nr]

Okay all this talk of a Boosted application is interesting. I actually toyed with the idea of designing something based off the Rotrex supergharger. No intercooler needed and no messing with the exhaust manifold. All that would be needed would be to fab up a bracket to hold the charger in line with the belt routing. I saw that Jackson Racing designed a kit with 5 lbs of boost for the Fit. Anyone have a connection wih these guys that might be able to talk them into designing a kit for the Versa???

[scott@westcovinanissan]

Thats funny you talk about the Rotrex supercharger, I sent an e-mail to the guys over at Jackson Racing.. no reply. But I was looking at those superchargers and if we could make a bracket to hold the supercharger and a pulley to put in line.. It would add just the right amount of boost. Those superchargers are kind of small but still but out some good boost.. HKS has a Rotrex system for the 350z that guys are putting on there 'z's works good (so I hear)

ScottWCN

[versa2nr]

Yeah I sent them an email as well, I was wondering if all you other guys send them an email it might pique their interest and see that the Versa community is growing. But yeah from the looks of it all you would need is a bracket and some tubing. You can buy the charger by itself with everything but engine management and the tubing for about 2300.

[Fahaka]

Not to bust your balls, but have you put together the turbo for the versa yet?

Question two. have you seen how much room you have to truly work with on the Versa, i can prob clearly say that not a lot of people have actually lifted up the V, and check out the engine space underneath the car, there isn't a lot of room to work with, hence why fox went with a turbo that wrap around to the top, if you were to run a turbo near the manifold you would need a baby turbo, and new pipes, re using the existing manifold, doesn't look fesable the last time i check underneaths.

I have not turbo charged a versa...yet

I have a turbo 240sx though.

There is plenty of room where the stock intake is located.

Some of you act like this is something other than what it is. I have seen at least one turbo charged versa and that was the basis for the info in this thread.

[blackversaatl]

Thats funny you talk about the Rotrex supercharger, I sent an e-mail to the guys over at Jackson Racing.. no reply. But I was looking at those superchargers and if we could make a bracket to hold the supercharger and a pulley to put in line.. It would add just the right amount of boost. Those superchargers are kind of small but still but out some good boost.. HKS has a Rotrex system for the 350z that guys are putting on there 'z's works good (so I hear)

ScottWCN

A Supercharger kit would be the biggest bang for the buck, forced induction wise AND SAFE for the motor/transmission.

Since the Fit has one, I'm surprised the V doesn't have one AT LEAST in the works. Though a Turbo would make more power in the long run, that supercharger would sound cool as hell on the V! It'll boost up the low end too on the V. The V has good low in torque, but lags sometimes until it hits over 4K.

[MIdnkight-lude]

I have not turbo charged a versa...yet

I have a turbo 240sx though.

There is plenty of room where the stock intake is located.

Some of you act like this is something other than what it is. I have seen at least one turbo charged versa and that was the basis for the info in this thread.

I actually work for a shop, so i know the basic turbo knowledge and how to get it work. but you won't see me posting on here until i can safely say that i myself have done the work, or a shop has. a lot of what you put down was pure speculation at best, so until someone has done it, it hard to recommend to people to actually do it, and it will in turn go wrong for them.

there are a few turbo versa out there, yes, but i have yet to see a traditional design, or the cheap design, with a log style header, that dump into the turbo and everything gets re-routed, and unless you yourself have look underneath the car, from below, it very hard to see room to build something that might be efficient. Something like the battery box would have to be remove to give it more room, or something else might have to be hack away.

As for the rotrex design, i think this would be one of the better route to do, but we will see if there room, when i look, it was right around the belt area too, but then again, i dont have the size of a rotrex sc with me. I can ask jackson if i go to SEMA this year. :P

maybe by Nov, i will get to see some more fun V.

[rainerng]

Who is reprogramming the ECU?

[FoxMarketingVersa]

So you guys know, if you going to turbo your Versa is it going to make a huge difference in the car, I know because I am the only one in the world with a turbo one. Also, you DO NOT need engine management if you are going to run under 8psi or less. The air fuel is perfect and runs around 14.2 on a wideband O2 Sensor on high way and dips to around 12.1 when in full boost which is perfectly safe. So, that will save you a buck or two and you don't need to have some expert tune your car.

[FoxMarketingVersa]

Also, you don't need to buy injectors either, stocks one work. No external fuel pump needed at all either.

All you need to do a kit in a Versa is this:

GT28RSExhaust ManifoldIntercooler Piping (get that bent)Blow off ValveExtreme Oil Pump (you need to pump back in the oil to the top of the valve cover)Stock injectorsNo engine managementDone deal folks, start betting the **** out of your car like I do!!

[Fahaka]

I actually work for a shop

This means nothing, working for a shop doesn't give you the first hand experience necessary to turbo charge any car. Are you a tech, salesperson, part slinger, Gopher...?

so i know the basic turbo knowledge and how to get it work. but you won't see me posting on here until i can safely say that i myself have done the work, or a shop has.

So you are going to criticize for posting because I haven't turbo charged my versa yet? Turbo charging is not a mythical thing. I addressed all of the issues and you complain about it but you have only one credible complaint (see below)...that is just silly.

...a lot of what you put down was pure speculation at best, so until someone has done it, it hard to recommend to people to actually do it, and it will in turn go wrong for them.

Nothing that I said was speculation. You need to re-read what I posted. I have addressed all of the tuning and fabrication issues. Perhaps it would be better for you to suggest something I left out. Sheesh!

there are a few turbo versa out there, yes, but i have yet to see a traditional design

Who cares about traditional designs. I made this thread in response to the "Turbo kit for under 2K" thread. I felt that it could actually be done, and so I explained it, in detail. For you to suggest that what I have described is not a traditional turbo kit leads me to believe that you don't really know how to turbo charge a car, but you do know how to bolt on parts to a car...

...or the cheap design...

I think the kit I described is relatively inexpensive...while still retaining some durability as long as the fabricated parts are not crap.

with a log style header, that dump into the turbo and everything gets re-routed

Log style/equal length/custom exhaust manifolds are absolutely not necessary especially when you consider where the turbo will be located.

and unless you yourself have look underneath the car, from below, it very hard to see room to build something that might be efficient.

Of course I have looked under my car...there is a ton of room for exactly what I described. Re-read what I said to do to the exhaust...I did not say to put it behind the motor...

"Most people want to have a baller turbo exhaust manifold to make things look "Cool" I say just fab a new extension off of the stock cast manifold to place the turbo in the same position as zpi's kit, which should just be a "U" shape or a few strait pieces with some 90's. If you can't fab this yourself, most diesel/welding shops can, and they can also fab your intefooler into a real intercooler. This work will be totally custom and may vary depending on your ability to negotiate or who your friends are. but figure $500 for intercooler plumbing, exhaust manifold redirect, and custom dump pipe."

Something like the battery box would have to be remove to give it more room, or something else might have to be hack away.

OK, here you addressed something I forgot to mention. I say get an offensive power mini battery to clear the intake plumbing or get a battery relocation kit...either way you spend another $80-$150.

As for the rotrex design, i think this would be one of the better route to do, but we will see if there room, when i look, it was right around the belt area too, but then again, i dont have the size of a rotrex sc with me. I can ask jackson if i go to SEMA this year. :P

Turbochargers>Superchargers

[Ever Victorious]

Turbochargers>Superchargers

Depends on your desires for your car. They both have pros and cons, but to use that as a blanket statement would not be correct. For your purposes, perhaps.

[Fahaka]

Also, you don't need to buy injectors either, stocks one work. No external fuel pump needed at all either.

All you need to do a kit in a Versa is this:

GT28RSExhaust ManifoldIntercooler Piping (get that bent)Blow off ValveExtreme Oil Pump (you need to pump back in the oil to the top of the valve cover)Stock injectorsNo engine managementDone deal folks, start betting the **** out of your car like I do!!

Cool here is someone who has actually done this...posting that I have over valued the budget...nice.

For the record, I think a gt28rs (disco potato) is not necessary especially since you are only running 8psi.

I only included bigger fuel, more airflow, and engine management for those who want to push up to 1 bar...

[Fahaka]

Depends on your desires for your car. They both have pros and cons, but to use that as a blanket statement would not be correct. For your purposes, perhaps.

No, sorry, you are wrong. Turbochargers are more efficient than superchargers. Superchargers create parasitic drag. This is common knowledge.

[Ever Victorious]

Turbochargers almost always run higher compression, run hotter, are more prone to heat and lubrication related failures, etc. etc.

And dude, seriously... settle down. It's not that big of a deal.

[rainerng]

Superchargers will also produce more power at rpm....at high(er) rpms turbos rule.

[Fahaka]

Turbochargers almost always run higher compression...

What? This makes no sense. Compression ratio's have nothing to do with turbochargers or superchargers. 9psi from a turbo is exactly the same as 9psi from a sc.

run hotter...

The heat is already there, the turbo just uses it. Turbo's do raise under hood temps and require some heat shielding if they are close to melty things.

The function of compressing air, whether by turbo or sc, will increase the compressed air's temperature. The advantage to a turbo is location, you can put your turbo anywhere there is space and shield it properly to prevent the heat from doing any damage. Then you can cool the air with an intercooler. Roots type sc's attach to the head (or thereabouts) where the manifold would normally be and you cannot run the compressed air through an intercooler, so there essentially would be more heat from a roots just because of the lack of intercooling, not to mention the fact that a roots type sc is less efficient that a centrifugal compressor...which means it heats the air even more.

are more prone to heat and lubrication related failures, etc. etc.

I totally disagree with this statement. As I stated above, in some cases sc's produce more heat. More heat in the combustion chamber from a non intercooled sc leads to detonation at lower boost levels. Detonation is the enemy and that is what destroys turbocharged motors. As for lubrication issues, as long as you are lubricating the turbo, it will last a long time.

...settle down.

Settle down? I'm sorry, I started a thread about turbocharging and have dispelled some myths. Why do I need to settle down. I hadn't realized that I was agitated...

[Fahaka]

Superchargers will also produce more power at rpm....at high(er) rpms turbos rule.

I think you are trying to say that sc's produce more power at lower rpm's...

This is also incorrect. The power produced by any forced induction is relative to the amount of pressure it creates.

Lets use Gregs "Vert From Hell" as an example. From idle to ~2500 rpm's his car acts like any other KA powered 240sx with bolt ons. From there on out his turbo is running at full boost and the motor will make it's peak power at ~5000 rpm (maybe higher than this though depending on his setup). With peak boost on tap from ~2500 rpm to redline he will make more power in that rpm range than a supercharger because, a supercharger spins relative to the rpm of the engine and so the boost gradually increases with the speed of the motor.

Some sc systems bleed off excess pressure to increase throttle response, but this also further reduces the efficiency of the compressor and creates more heat.

This information is not new, and is well documented. I recommend "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell as a starting point to forced induction systems.

Turbochargers will always be superior to superchargers.

</debate>

[rainerng]

I have that book by corky bell. I used to have a 240sx with a blacktop sr20det with a t28 turbo, JWT ecu and the works. But anyway, you sound like an expert in this area so good luck.

[Ever Victorious]

What? This makes no sense. Compression ratio's have nothing to do with turbochargers or superchargers. 9psi from a turbo is exactly the same as 9psi from a sc.

Ok, since you've decided that we have to explicity spell out word for word what we actually mean here goes:

Generally, turbochargers are used to GENERATE more boost than a supercharger. There aren't a whole lot of low-pressure (sub-8) psi turbos, and there aren't a whole lot of high-pressure (above-9) psi turbos.

And all I was saying, for my statement with respect to the "superiority" of turbos vs. superchargers, is that not everyone who wants to boost their engine wants uber high performance. Some want moderate performance gains. Low pressure turbos are not ALWAYS the way to go to gain this performance (see also any Subaru turbo produced before 1992).

No doubt, for all-out performance, turbos are superior. I wasn't questioning that. Just questioning that you were saying that turbos are ALWAYS superior for ALL applications. If they were, superchargers wouldn't exist period.

Quote »...heat shielding if they are close to melty things. [/quote]Love the technical term.

Quote »Settle down? I'm sorry, I started a thread about turbocharging and have dispelled some myths. Why do I need to settle down. I hadn't realized that I was agitated... [/quote]More because of the tone you are coming off with. I know that the way you are dealing with this is the way stuff is dealt with on the 240sx forum. That's not the way we roll here, we try to operate in a cooperative manner, not with an arrogant show with every sentence or argument of rebuttal.

Those of us here who have decided they want to boost their engine have more than likely done the research and already decided which application they would prefer for their own vehicle.

Those who are unsure will certainly ask, and it's very much appreciated to help those users with their decisions. But acting stuck-up towards people who are trying to discuss the merits of one system vs. the other is counterproductive and, well, aggravating. And don't even try to play that off because you gave me the proof of your mood yourself.

Turbochargers will always be superior to superchargers.

</debate>

Read that back any day you are completely calm, ignore that it came from you yourself, and tell me that's not arrogant and demeaning as hell.

[Fahaka]

yeah I hear you, I just want to be clear about it.

[Ever Victorious]

yeah I hear you, I just want to be clear about it.

That makes two of us.

We good?

[Fahaka]

Arrogant?

I don't want to be labeled as arrogant. I am merely standing by the facts I stated. Lots of people supercharge their cars. I have no problem with those that do. I am not demeaning anyone who wants to have, or already has, a supercharger. But the fact is that turbochargers are more efficient than superchargers. Not arrogant...just honest.

This thread was started a while ago merely laying out a diy low cost turbo kit for the versa. Several people interjected with less than factual information, and I felt compelled to clarify with facts.

Regarding superchargers on a Versa though, I feel that a roots type (Jackson Racing) would be the easiest to install because it would take the place of the intake manifold. There would need to be a custom (most likely billet aluminum) manifold to attach the supercharger to the head and then drive belt issues as well, but I believe that would be much more costly and time consuming than simply modifying the exhaust to work with a turbo. There are also other inherent problems associated with roots superchargers that would limit total power output...see above.

I feel that a centrifugal supercharger is out of the question because there simply isn't room on the passenger side of the engine...

[Ever Victorious]

OK, that's a much better post... thank you for clarifying.