is there a Cam guide for ca18det??

[Chinamandrift]

i just want to find out about the behavior of the ca18det ...........wiith different cam combinations(duration, lift, solid lifters, hydraulic lifters, cam brands)...and what modifications needed to do so.

i have no knowledge on clearances on these motors.... thought id ask before i go find out the hard way

[themadscientist]

well engine behavior with regards to increasing cam duration and lift in the simplest terms is pretty similar. What are your power goals and intended use?

[Chinamandrift]

im doing drifting, and auto crossing...its an off road car, track only

power goals ...i guess since its off road only i would guess where ever it takes me ......prolly 300.......make it more on a rev happy side........a lil past the redline and still making power would be great

im just thinking of building the head and block withstand anything ......

right now my 4port head is in the shop ......and they told me everything is good .....so i started looking up head internals .....since i cant find a cam guide for the ca18det ........i dont know what cam profiles to go with.....

im thinking solid lifters would be nice ......more lift ...more duration ....but sometimes more isnt better ......i guess what im trying to find out is the behavior of each different option.

stock duration256260270

stock lift8.59.2510.25

stock hydraulic lifters solid lifters

also how does the ca18det behave to mix match durations and lifts ?

i know about having lumpy idles ...i dont mind lumpy idles ...as long as i can get the most out of it .......on the track i dont find my self sitting anywhere between idle and 2.5k.....but then again i had a huge heavy foot ....and the ae86 use to have a 4age ...thats a different story though

from everything im looking at ...since i like to rev ....i am considering solid lifters ........everyones opinion is greatly appreciated.......

[themadscientist]

260 or higher if you want the power to continue into the revs. Better think about new rods to keep the bottom end together. I am going the other way, short duration, low revs, high boost. I would like to see 300hp.

[Chinamandrift]

what mods are needed to be done to achieve 10.25mm lift ? all i know is im going to need springs and solid lifters.....what about the head ?

what if we mix match cams like 256 and 260...or 260 and 270??

how much clearance do we have between the valve and piston with stock compression forged pistons and stock thickness head gasket ??

im just trying to gather as much info as possible before i do something stupid.

i plan to build the bottom end also

[Zero260]

from what I've seen, the only reason to mix-match cams is for a better idle, while maintaing a great exh. profile. but since it's gonna be a track car, I don't see a need for it.

[float_6969]

That's not completely true. Nissan heads are infamous for flowing poorly on the exhaust side compared to the intake side. That means that, especially on a turbo motor, you're going to need more exhaust lift &/ duration to balance the flow out.

[Chinamandrift]

float is right...he has a big point there ....i took out 1 ex valve and 1 in valve today ......the intake valve is huge compared to the exhaust valve......the exhaust valve is slightly bigger then half the intake valve (i hope this makes sense)...i was suprised

so what the rule for equalizing flow? is it same amount going in same amount going out?

so would a combination 260 9.25 lift intake and 270 10.25 lift exhaust seem ideal ?

[themadscientist]

I have only seen one Nissan engine that people overcam the intake and that is the FJ. Looking at that goofy intake it makes sense.

[Chinamandrift]

so what would be logical for the ca18det motor?

i took a wild guess earlier....anyone have any experience or opinions on this??

[themadscientist]

260 or higher if you want the power to continue into the revs. Better think about new rods to keep the bottom end together.

what he said

[Chinamandrift]

ok so 260 or higher ...

wat if i do 270 10.25 on both sides ......would i ruin anything ??...would i gain anything??

[themadscientist]

for under 400hp a 272 would be overkill IMO, a 260-264 would give you a usuable powerband while meeting your power goal. I've never worked with a cam with that much lift, the lobes may be so tall the head needs to be clearanced. If you are really going to be living at high RPM solid lifters might be something to look into.

[Chinamandrift]

i see...

where would my power band be for these different durations ?

does anyone know how much work is needed for 10.25 lift ?? what about 9.25???

i was looking up solid lifters and the ca18det is discontinued....but the rb20 and rb25 works....but u just get extra solid lifters. they have the same part number.

has anyone done solid lifters? i tried looking up guides or info to upgrade the ca18det valve train ...but i came with nothing... i wanted to know whats needed to be done on the solid lifters...

i was looking for info ...and tomei has a test shim kit ....i assume we use that to size up the correct shims to run with the solid lifters....on the site it says the base thickness is 1mm.....so i assume we just measure how much we need to add to the solid lifters to get the correct clearance.

[float_6969]

I have no personal experience with this, but I've heard that the 9MM lifts will clear, but barely. The 10 HAVE to have the head milled out to clear them.

[boost_boy]

i see...

where would my power band be for these different durations ?

Varies from engine to engine. Most people use adjustable cam gears, so it's hard to really say.

does anyone know how much work is needed for 10.25 lift ?? what about 9.25???

It requires some serious head-work by someone who knows what they're doing.

has anyone done solid lifters? i tried looking up guides or info to upgrade the ca18det valve train ...but i came with nothing... i wanted to know whats needed to be done on the solid lifters...

I have an engine with solid lifters in it, but I've never used it. It wasn't cheap meaning that my head alone is worth two or more complete CA18DET engine sets.

i was looking for info ...and tomei has a test shim kit ....i assume we use that to size up the correct shims to run with the solid lifters....on the site it says the base thickness is 1mm.....so i assume we just measure how much we need to add to the solid lifters to get the correct clearance.

Why create a headache for yourself? The CA18DET can rev with it's stock hydraulic lifters if your engine is set-up right and has healthy components in it. A good set of heavy duty valve springs, a good head job, a good engine management system, and a good tuning should give you the rpms you desire. A good set of cams for drifting is a 260ish cam with not more than 8.5mm of lift. Anything bigger than a 9mm lift and you're going to need to make more modifications to include deeper valve reliefs on your pistons and you will need to modify your head as well.

Dee

[Chinamandrift]

so best bang for the buck is 260 duration 8.5 lift...no mods to the head needed..... thanks Dee

now about the valve reliefs on the pistons.......can i get enough space in there to clear 9.25 or 10.25 with out milling or extensive head machining?? maybe lower my compression ~8.2-8.0

a thicker head gasket can be used too but i rather work on custom pistons rather then messing with the thickness of the gasket.....the rule was to keep the gasket around factory spec....and only thicker to make up for the milling/decking

i also have a machine shop here that only builds and machines engines ....they are willing to help me out .......but this is the first time they have worked on the ca18det....so who i go to first is u guys for help......since many of you have experience with this beautiful motor.....

but yeah im not lazy .....i dont mind work .....as long as i have info to back up what im doing ......i dont mind working hard to put together a nice engine...its out of the car and taken apart ....i just want the whole thing right the first time ......

[dattodude]

For CA18det, higher lift means smaller camshaft basecircle, which means different lifters and springs. If normal basecircle/high lift cams were available, clearancing for the cam lobes would be required on the head. Also heavier valve springs would be recommended to cope with the higher lift.

If you have someone (like Dee's friends) make you up some custom high lift cams, then if they are over 8.8mm then you are looking for trouble without doing the machine work.

Stick to the Tomei 260/8.5/Hydro lifters, and get on with life. :-)

As for clearancing pistons, nobody will give you promises on piston clearance with aftermarket cams. You can only spend a day pulling the head on and off, using plasticine (or whatever), to check piston and valve clearances. My 270/9.25 cams with standard valves and custom forged pistons don't hit, but I'm running o-ringed head too, so none of this is of value to anyone.


Modified by dattodude at 3:22 PM 7/22/2007

[Chinamandrift]

ok wat if i go with tomei valve springs, jun retainers, and solid lifters

how much machining are we talking here??.....there no info on how much we need to do .....to make higher lift cams work.....as far as the machining of the head goes.

we know these high lift cams are available, but theres not much aftermarket support on whats needed to be done to make them work.

not all of us want to be limited to the 8.5 lift....wen we know theres more options out there...im sure im not the only one who is curious in making the higher lift cams work....

[themadscientist]

You are going about this the wrong way. I have studied your posts and you are basing your intentions on what I would call "dreamparts push" not "power needs pull". You should determine the desired power and durability desired and then procure parts to satisfy that goal. You have instead fixated on cool parts and are trying to manipulate your goals to justify them. That is the wrong approach and will leave you with a collection of mismatched parts that look cool on a list but don't pull the numbers at the wheels in a useful rpm range or possibly not at all.

[boost_boy]

Just to add further on what mad and datto said, since you are looking for the 300ish h/p range, focus more on an useful and efficient 300ish h/p as opposed to a high-revvin' 300ish h/p. Please don't knock the stock lifters just yet. In case you don't know, I have a daily driven 350+whp sentra that sports stock lifters and heavy duty valve springs and this thing revs and holds above the desired 8500rpm that most kill their engines to achieve and theirs plenty of power all the way 8500rpm.

I would shif my focus on the things I mentioned earlier as well as the guys mentioned. But if you're still determined to rev the hell out of your engine, I can mail you a copy of the machining instructions from JUN and you can have a go at it. Between the 4 of us posting on this thread lies a lot of years and experience with this motor and I pesonally have tuned them on nearly every level. Take heed to some of this stuff and set your goals accordingly. I personally have over 10 years of wrenching on CAs, so now you know the extent of my CA resume.

Dee

[Masterdebater]

haha dee sounds as tho u fukin invented the ca. why not just go with the 260/8.5/stock but new lefters? its gonna save u hastle and when u notice if its not what u want ill buy them from u and u can go through the trouble of bigger sets since were on the subject, has anyone price checked and found where to get 260 cams, 8.5, and stock lifters?

[Chinamandrift]

u are right i am aiming for the dream parts ....

but ...

im actually only trying to find out what each different combinations will do.......and i will choose after i know which one does what...and what will best fit my needs

so far Dee helped me alot by his input of his experience....he might as well invent the next generation CA......he told me 260 8.5lift will do well ...but what i really wanted to know is .....what will i get out of them? where in the power band would it make a difference?? what about other combinations??..will i gain or loose anything from higher lift? will 8.8lift fit with no mods??? what about mix match cams? so many questions

cams cost money...parts cost money....i dont want to buy something that doesnt fit my setup....

if u guys experience different cams set ups before ....let me know what kind of cams ....and what was the outcome of the cams.....

[ch187]

i had planned on using 260-264 8.5 cams, using stock lifters. but can we still get "heavy duty" valve springs to compliment this setup?? anyone know where to look other than raretrick or whatnot. i figured there could be some alternatives with maybe a smaller pricetag.

[dash]

In the early days of sxoc, it was quite common to read of 'substantial' gains going with a performance grind on the intake side only. Intuition would suggest this as the intake valves r bigger?Testimonials like, "huge improvement", always grab my attention.

Old school hotrodders ground their turbo profiles with more intake duration also. Consider the fact that they made a lot of torque and took 4 & 6cyl down into the 10s, way back in the day sucking thru a carb - no prog fuel injection, intercooling, etc..

Could the longer duration exhaust cam be preferred for a higher peak hp number ?

Hi boost/standout CA18s I recall all had same duration, both sides.

Read on sxoc that ca16 inlet cam/oe exh cam used on 450bhp ca18.I dunno what "brake"? hp is vs dynojet whp tho.

Kinda hard to get any quality feedback from forums these days so its something I'm definitely gonna try... ~260-265°/hydraulic intake cam.More torque thru hi boost, with an 8000rpm redline is good for me.

What brand cams are you guys getting & from where ?

Are valvesprings recommended for the low lift cams ?

I'm wondering how much less power you make from the hydraulic vs solid/hi lift ?Not that I'd consider the expensive route.... probably cheaper to go with a bigger motor/swap at that point.

Dee colt? cams look like another good option. I'd like to hear some feedback from any users.I've seen more "off-brand" cams yield disappointing results, unlike the JDM brands that actually seem to have R&D behind theirs, hence consistently receiving positive reviews.

[boost_boy]

Alright, I'm going to try and be brief, but to the point about certain camshaft set-ups.

HKS 264 intake and exhaust cam on non-ported/stock valve sprung/internally stock CA18DET with a T3/T04B stage 1 (.50 A/R and .63 rear housing) netted me 312.5whp at 18psi with very novice like tuning.

A complete stock CA18DET with a smoking 60-1 turbocharger with a .48 back housing and .60 front netted my 332whp on 20psi of boost.

Tomei 270s with a 9mm lift duration= A broken intake Cam (Can't explain, don't ask how), but I still have the exhaust cam hanging out somewhere in my garage.

My reground cams (270ish with an 8.8mm lift) netted me 307whp on 11-12psi on a 60-1 turbocharger, but I never went any further because it was getting late.

Overboosted180s CA with reground cams, heavy duty valve springs, and a 60-1 with .63 rear housing & .60 A/R master power turbocharger netted 389whp @ 23psi of boost on a set-up that would only let us rev to 6800 befor the DIS-2 fought with the SDS on when the limiter should be implemented.

MY CA now sports an HKS 272 with 8.5mm exhaust and an HKS 264 intake with 8.5mm lift and it performs rather nicely. Haven't gotten it to a dyno yet, but it's coming .

My Built engine sports a complete head outfit with JUN goodies to include JUN solid lifters, JUN valve springs, JUN retainers, JUN Cams 272 with a 10.5mm lift intake and exhaust, Tomei Cam gears, a serious port and polish job as well as the 3 angle valve job. I hope this helps a little bit more.

Dee

[andiqqqq]

Hi. I(n Poland we find out that if you move intake cam 1 tooth of pulley your torque will increase about 15 to 20 Nm and 5-7 HP. Torque is higher in a whole graph.

[ch187]

im liking the sound of your reground cams dee. i need to find that thread. because i want them.. i like the sound of 300whp at 12 psi. how long do you think the bottom end would hold together at 300whp though? isnt that about when rod bolts give

[themadscientist]

revs kill the rods, make the power on boost and stay out of the red and you should be fine.

[ch187]

sweet.. i hardly ever take it to redline. no need to at this point. this makes me want to start fabricating me "**** you, full race" manifolds and slap a hefty t3 on there.