Building a 2000-3000rpm spooling 400whp car?

[a_ahmed]

Just thoughts, what do you think?

What would be the best option? I can not decide on an engine plant... V6 is out of question, ls1/2/6 maybe... SR20DET? RB engines are awesome but too heavy... and even then how possible is it. I am being anal about front end weight and weight distribution, I don't want an all out drag car... all out drag car with a big snail is an easy task compared to this...

400whp top end... lowest boost possible.

What would it take to get an sr boosting so fast. Impossible you say? Lets see what's possible realistically then...

I decided to post her and not on my local 240 club as they were being ***holes "OMG ITS IMPOSSIBLE YOU STUPID" sure... could have been at least more mature and polite... but hey.

Porting heads, reworking engine internals, dif turbo setups, vmount and not front mount intercooler, whatever is possible.

For sake of discussion and innovation... not bragging rights or whatever as some people claim it is. I was quite pissed off talking on another forum... at least I expect better from nico, as any question asked by anybody here gets a discussion and not bashing or bull**** trash talking...

I know that something like a turbo'd v8 would push that easily but... hey... and of course it doesn't mean 2000rpm full boost, but for sake of argument if one was trying to achieve a goal of maximum power and fastest spool times. Not possible, sure, but what's possible to the limit...

Sorry for rantish post... quite upset from the local 240 forum they just trash talk about everything...

[s14_240sx]

I'm pretty sure that local board cough..son...cough was giving you the right answer. If you really are concerned about weight than go for the LS1 swap, its a little bit lighter than the KA and you'll get just what your looking for. Fact is any turbo car will not produce boost that low because they run of exhaust gasses.

[a_ahmed]

I'm pretty sure that local board cough..son...cough was giving you the right answer. If you really are concerned about weight than go for the LS1 swap, its a little bit lighter than the KA and you'll get just what your looking for. Fact is any turbo car will not produce boost that low because they run of exhaust gasses.

I'm aware of how a turbo works... but what are then some ways to improve boost spool while still keep that sort of power level?

A car with power and lag at that level, is kind of useless to me imo... loud + lag = only then power = not my kind of thing..

If I even go with a kat, i would want to improve the responsiveness of the engine... I've been in only one though.. so can't say I have much experience with how great KATs are other than actual available torque at the low end...and a gas guzzler lol... but it didn't seem to rev that freely...

Haven't been in an LS1 swap yet...so no clue about that...

Son is gay, nothing but douchebags with no aspirations except ego, who think they're the **** and they're all mostly running stock rust buckets and some stock SRs... and quite rude, unlike any other forum, including to noobs, at least here noobs are treated with respect lol, regardless.

SR's weight attracts me, but it's lack of low end annoys me... I've driven a and been driven in a couple of SRs, and its just a loud slow car... I mean cmon, SRs are a stock engine in japan in our cars... they are junkyard engines that we think are so great... its just a stock engine... but to build it up with low end, quick boost and response in mind.. while retaining a high power level, i want to know how feasible it is... that is all.

[Ali 556]

sory...but how in god's name a 2.0 L going to spool a X turbo to make 400rwhp under 3 K rpm's....?

if i were you get this...

LS1 + T56 6 spd trany....thewn do this :

1- intake : swap a LS6 Or LS2 intake Or get a FAST 90mm intake.

2- heads : swap an MTI (2E i think) head's.

3- cam : Put a G11X5 cam.

4- get a GOOD tunning.

result :

you will make 410-440 rwhp depnding on the tune..... <-- @ -1 Psi...lol

or a KA-T with a GT32...you will make ~400rwhp around 5Krpm (i think)

hope this help...

Ali

EDIT:

505rwhp @ 1500rpm's... :



LINK:

http://www.kennebell.net/super...e.htm

beat that SR boy...lol

[TchouikoS13]

I know exactly what you need...

SUPERCHARGER!!!

If you know what a supercharger is, you'll know you'll get instant power as soon as you tap the throttle. I know there are a couple dudes that did it, search .

[a_ahmed]

sory...but how in god's name a 2.0 L going to spool a X turbo to make 400rwhp under 3 K rpm's....?

if i were you get this...

LS1 + T56 6 spd trany....thewn do this :

1- intake : swap a LS6 Or LS2 intake Or get a FAST 90mm intake.

2- heads : swap an MTI (2E i think) head's.

3- cam : Put a G11X5 cam.

4- get a GOOD tunning.

result :

you will make 410-440 rwhp depnding on the tune..... <-- @ -1 Psi...lol

ot a KA-T with a GT32...you will make ~400rwhp around 5Krpm (i think)

hope this help...

Ali

Thanks for the response man... that sounds pretty good..

I've been pondering for a year what to do lol... I want to do it right and not just waste money and be disappointed...

SR:-----good: light, responsivebad: no low end, maintenance/expensive to build right when pushed

RB:-----good: smooth, responsive (25 not as responsive), good torque (20 worse torque than SR)bad: heavy as **** and expensive just to swap stock

CA:-----good: very capable, descent torque compared to SR even, very responsive, very light, best weight distributionbad: serious lag, old, definetely needs a rebuild

KAT----:good: serious torque, low end power-r-us, serious power potential, reliable if built and tuned properly, not expensive (for the same amount built on other swaps can build a killer machine), really good to put it simplybad: not responsive, heavy front still which is only turn off to me..

LS1-----:good: NA, lots of power, low end, light aluminum block (how light? how far back how low down for weight distribution)bad: all custom/expensive (but not as badly as an RB swap), great mpg at even 120km/hr in sixth

Only thing I like on RB is smoothness.

Only thing I like on SR is lightweight

CA is out

KAT is potential candidate, if I could cope with the weight and handling nimbleness being affected somehow. I want to improve not worsen the car's handling as it is... Definitely something I could REALLY build for 5000$ into a reliable monster.. and if somehow the lack of responsiveness on this engine could be dealt with, that would be nice

LS1, I don't know how heavy it is... sounds tempting and worth while unlike an expensive stock RB swap... lots to think about, about this...

Supercharger adds weight and it'll be linear torque, which is great, but won't be really able to have enough top end then. Twincharging -> no... I doubt it would be too worthwhile, it would still make the nose heavy...

To me it seems like I would go KAT or LS1 for sure... but i dont know... and when it comes to KAT only thing pulling back is heavy front end and not being as responsive as say sr, ca or rb20 or rb26.....

Edit:

Holy ****... that's powerful... I think the frame or something or the car itself would twist and crack from that much power at 1500rpm :P Heh... those must be some insane drag cars... Unfortunately I'm not building a drag car :P If i could afford a z06 or z07, I would get that :P However I guess I can not hehe.
Modified by a_ahmed at 3:11 PM 7/1/2007

[TchouikoS13]

Man, you sound like a really damper on this situation. Stop with the complaining and think realistically.

Your car is going to be heavy no matter which engine you put in there. Weight reduction is like an art to some, ask them whats crackin. Don't think your the only one to do this. Ask others about their set up and find something you like.

I dunno how deep your pockets are, but some superduper idealistic setup is going to cost you a future + 1.

[turbo2nr]

ka-t with a straight t4/ 52 trim. .70/.58, you will start to spool at 2500 rpm and make 15psi at 3200rpm and it will take you to redline6500, get some 264 cams and raise the rev up to 7200 and youll get a much longer power band. 350whp is easy for stock internal ka with a good fmu ( aem ems/enthaply tune/jim wolf/emanage ult/ect)

the key to not blowing a ka-t up is having enought fuel and good timing managment...

as for the weight i have a 97 s14 i didnt notice any difference in weight after the ka was turbo, it still handles great i mean i can power in a turn @ 6psi and exit @10psi and hang with evo's throught traffic any day....

[a_ahmed]

The only reason I would go SR is weight.. I don't know... its so damn nimble with one The reason I like my car is because of it's handling...

Also I am neither building a drag car or a drift car... Drifting is fun but only for so much... I am interested in a pure handling car with no more than and no less than 400whp...

So KAT it might be... I am ever so more tempted by it... For the same amount on an SR swap not to mention RB25 swap.. you can build a killer engine...

I just want two problems resolved front weight and revving responsiveness... I am not building a drift car... if these two can be resolved, I'm set...

On a bendy track, with low speed bends, I much rather have the torque in the lows than in the highs and still be able to maneouvr nimbly and fast enough while fast enough to pull away onto the straight after the bends.

[Havoc]

My question is - for what purpose do you need the car?I can't think of anything where you'd really need 400rwhp @ 3k rpm's, and still have a long powerband without losing any power, if it isn't drag, which, as you stated, it is not.

EDIT: ok, just read you last post, which was made while i was writing this one.Why exactly do you need a "handling car with 400whp and good responsiveness", when by good responsiveness you mean a SC type of powerband with more high rpm power? I'd say settle for a good SC, since you don't want to get a twin-charger or a twin-turbo. I believe that even if the car won't have the 400 rwhp @ 3k rpms, it will still be responsive enough for you, just make sure it has those 400 somewhere in the powerband, and you'll get there, eventually. No point in wasting a ton of cash for a couple of horses at lower rpms if you don't do drag. Just my $0.02

[Bstrd240SX]

^^^^

he didnt say 400hp at 3000 rpms

he said he wanted BOOST at 3k, and 400hp up top

just use an EMS that has antilag, or build yourself an air injection antilag setup

[FUNGC]

TWIN CHARGED KA!!!!!!!!

be the first to try that dudde.

[Ali 556]

dude....the LS1 is lighter then the iron KA...and <i think> it's lighter then the '' way way over priced'' SR crap....

if you have a lot of $$$$ get a H.S.C kit ( hinson) ......it'll cost you around the ka-t for 300-350 rwhp

you can fab your mount's and get the kit.....also a SR is LAGGGGGGGGGGY in stock form...

so if you want need more info about the LSx in 240sx lmk...ok?



EDIT :

check this out :

http://www.silviav8forums.com/forum

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I agree with the twin charger people. Either that or drop 1 metric asston of cash on a variable geometry turbo. Do up the KA. If you are so damn worried about weight, drop the AC and all the emissions crap. Yes you can make a KA "Responsive". Just make everything that moves as light as possible. Flywheel, driveshaft, wheels, pulleys.

Edit: Or join the LSx people.

[turbo2nr]

when you say responsive. what is mean. do you mean handleing aspect or when the power hit aspet?

sr are over rated but non the less a great motor, with tons of pontential. i love the rb, the rb you need to work with it but when it works it works, and its probably a little more reailable then the ka and sr @ 400whp.

i feel you on not building your car for drag or drift, im building my for hi-way crusing and running, i want my car to handle and make power. and right now im around 230whp on 7psi on my ka-t ( i turned it down) its may not be the fastest car but its well balanced and can do well in all areas. the power is there , and if i need more its just couple psi away, but then the car becomes harder to control..

i guess what im saying is that you need to have a balanced car. it seems like that what your are leading to.

[FUNGC]

The only reason I would go SR is weight.. I don't know... its so damn nimble with one The reason I like my car is because of it's handling...

Also I am neither building a drag car or a drift car... Drifting is fun but only for so much... I am interested in a pure handling car with no more than and no less than 400whp...

So KAT it might be... I am ever so more tempted by it... For the same amount on an SR swap not to mention RB25 swap.. you can build a killer engine...

I just want two problems resolved front weight and revving responsiveness... I am not building a drift car... if these two can be resolved, I'm set...

On a bendy track, with low speed bends, I much rather have the torque in the lows than in the highs and still be able to maneouvr nimbly and fast enough while fast enough to pull away onto the straight after the bends.

SR's really doesnt make the car that much more nimble. imo SR is a overrated pos. ive built and driven both SR and KAT and i must say i LOVEEE KAT wayyyy better. the KAT setup was only 1500cdn approx. same T25 turbo boosted at 7psi just like the SR.

[a_ahmed]

Variable turbos -> No one uses them yet, except the likes of porsche 911...

Have yet to hear of a 240 with one... I myself don't know much about them... i've seen the diagrams and 'how stuff works' type article on it but hey...

Anyone got any kind of dyno comparisons on variable turbo vs standard turbos most people use on SR, RB, including KAT etc...

I have decided to go kat.

I figure I'll be able to balance the weight just fine, i am going to do further weight shedding anyways soon enough. I have 100kg shedded already from the car (no exageration). Plus when cage goes in, it'll be just perfect.

Front end I'll cut up a little more too, and i figure i'll slap on fiberglass/carbon pieces... I'll have to do something about the pop up lights too, s15 conversion is a possibility but meh... i am not going for looks, thats the ABSOLUTE last thing I will give a damn about, but I don't doubt s15 front end can be done up well on an s13 (def need a widebody in the rear end)..

http://i43.photobucket.com/alb...x.jpg

So.. all in all, I am set, I've decided to go kat. First I'm buying a second car (winter/family car), and I'm going all out on my s13

I just cant do without the low end torque... it just sucks having it all up high and lagged.. no offense to SR owners... and its so bloody noisy too.

LS1/2/6/7 are out Sorry LS guys, but kudos for you and that sort of build...! Too much custom work that I can't afford/time.

Only custom thing I'd like is if I could get custom mounts built like the full race RB mounts that could kick the KA as far back as possible and a one piece driveshaft... that would be great to make the front even lighter. On top of that the z32 transmission to handle the power. Should be one kick *** car.

I need a name for my car as a project car... "Project happy" lol, I am quite happy to have finally concluded what to go with...

[sebazztard]

and it only took you 23 hours and 45 minutes worth of posting to figure it out. lol...

[theclub]

Here you go http://www.apartment107.com/article.php?id=1720 theres a vid of a twin charged s15 that makes 350hp. Sure the supercharger might add another 30-40lbs but if you want high power at low rpms with a small motor thats what you need to do. Also I think the sr and ca have the same weight because the ca is an iron block and the .2liter larger sr is all aluminum. My cars pretty light (sr,cf bumper,flush mount headlights,no ps or ac,no back seat,and I'm in the midle of removing the sound deading tar) motors almost stock escept for 3"ex, nismo mounts, stage 3 xtd clutch, 1 piece ds, and cone filter. It feals fast as hell to me sure you realy need 400hp.

[a_ahmed]

Even Tsuchiya said it, "steering felt numb" lol.... weight = bad, less weight = good, no weight = perfect lol. They should have imported the USDM tyte KA :P

[Morph]

Even Tsuchiya said it, "steering felt numb" lol.... weight = bad, less weight = good, no weight = perfect lol. They should have imported the USDM tyte KA :P

Omfg dude are you kidding me... If its that much of a deal get a damn fiberglass body.

[Ali 556]

how to spin tyers ALL the way to 125 KMh (70 mph)......?

here is your answer.....

http://s162.photobucket.com/al...9.flv

killing a '06 Z06....

http://s162.photobucket.com/al...4.flv

http://s162.photobucket.com/al...5.flv

don't forget one thing....STAY AWAY from the ''over priced-lagggggggggy-hard to deal with crap'' A.K.A SR20DET...

thx

[a_ahmed]

how to spin tyers ALL the way to 125 KMh (70 mph)......?

here is your answer.....

http://s162.photobucket.com/al...9.flv

killing a '06 Z06....

http://s162.photobucket.com/al...4.flv

http://s162.photobucket.com/al...5.flv

don't forget one thing....STAY AWAY from the ''over priced-lagggggggggy-hard to deal with crap'' A.K.A SR20DET...

thx

specs/info/where/you?/etc...

Omfg dude are you kidding me... If its that much of a deal get a damn fiberglass body.

For someone NOT interested in drifting and drag racing, yes.

[CBCUSTOMS]

how to spin tyers ALL the way to 125 KMh (70 mph)......?

here is your answer.....

http://s162.photobucket.com/al...9.flv

killing a '06 Z06....

http://s162.photobucket.com/al...4.flv

http://s162.photobucket.com/al...5.flv

don't forget one thing....STAY AWAY from the ''over priced-lagggggggggy-hard to deal with crap'' A.K.A SR20DET...

thx

Those videos were awesome. I don't know anyone that i know that has had a problem with the SR. I guess some are just bad. Anyways, i like mine and I still get a big *** smile when I get done driving it.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Variable turbos -> No one uses them yet, except the likes of porsche 911...

Nobody has a KAT that has full boost by 2000RPM and makes 400RWHP either. Adopt a set of nuts. If you want what you claim, be the first to do the variable geometry. If not... live with yourself not having a car that has full boost at 2000RPM. Or twin charge like I said before.

[Ali 556]

specs/info/where/you?/etc...

spec : LS2 '95 S14 360rwhp & 34x tq (check link for more).

info : check link.

where : saudi arabia ( a friend of mine.....yes i'm in saudi arabia )

you? : NO but i can take the car from him...lol

etc : check link

LINK :

http://silviav8forums.com/foru...t=167

hope you like it....

if you want more info LMK...ok...?

Ali

[SeVa-S13]

Just thoughts, what do you think?blah blah blah.... misinfo/hearsay...blah blah...over-exaggeration of weight changes...blah blah

I WANT A V8.

Fixed that for ya.

[bt2s14]

You're making the differences in weight much more dramatic than they are.

[Morph]

You're making the differences in weight much more dramatic than they are.

Correct!!!

[PapaSmurf2k3]

1 Euro says this car/person will never reach this goal.