G50: Under Plenum Hose replacement (Dial up = unhappy people)

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ceningolmo
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I started the under plenum, bypass hose replacement job today. This thread is to show pictures I take as I go... I probably won't provide any running commentary. Wes already did a wonderful write-up, this is just to give some further photographic evidence of the job.

Just to give you an idea of what the scope of the project is...

Under Plenum hose kit (ordered from Joe) - replace all relevant hosesBy Pass hose kit (ordered from Joe) - replace all relevant hosesRemove injectors and have them serviced at DeatschRremove and replace O2 sensorsRemove and replace Knock sensors and knock sensor harnessRemove and replace Spark plugsreplace TB gasketReplace IAC gasketReplace EGR gasketReplace plenum gasketsFinally, just some general cleaning of parts...particularly the Plenum and TB.


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ceningolmo
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maxnix
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Ross, you are my hero.

Mine looks a little cleaner, but there are so many details.

Brian

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ceningolmo
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Thanks Brian... I'm just hoping to survive this. Luckily Wes agreed to help me this coming Sunday. So, he will be here for reassembly.

That may be the only way my car finishes this adventure in an operational state.

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ceningolmo
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keep going, Ross!check the date code on the power brake booster hose at rear of plenum (lo-res in pictures-i can;t read it--looks like maybe 2000?). suggest you replace those 2 pb booster hoses if more than 5 yrs old. that was about the only hose that actually broke when i did mine.

might also want to do your heater hoses since you are going in this far....

wes will know, but do all your fuel hoses while in there, and don't forget to position the hose clamps so you can still get at them after plenum is back on. in 2 months, you'll be snugging them up again.....

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elwesso
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im reasonably sure the brake booster hose comes in the kit... If not, we will probably replace with generic...

We will have to replace fuel hose anyway since we are taking the rail out for the injector service...

i/we are going to make a raid at the autoparts store for some extra clamps (i always get pissed off at a few and break them, plus aftermarket clamps are better and easier to deal with IMO)

Im not sure if the heater hoses are going to be done this time around... When I did my plenum i inspected them and they looked fine, so i decided to save some money (those were EXPENSIVE)

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ceningolmo
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Currently 16 degrees in my garage. I tried to work on stuff for about 5 minutes... froze my *** off... hands went numb and I dropped a socket somewhere in the valley of the engine.

I gave up and went inside for hot chocolate.

I'll try again tomorrow. Must...buy...heater!

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lino
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ceningolmo wrote:
Just to give you an idea of what the scope of the project is...

Under Plenum hose kit (ordered from Joe) - replace all relevant hosesBy Pass hose kit (ordered from Joe) - replace all relevant hosesRemove injectors and have them serviced at DeatschRremove and replace O2 sensorsRemove and replace Knock sensors and knock sensor harnessRemove and replace Spark plugsreplace TB gasketReplace IAC gasketReplace EGR gasketReplace plenum gasketsFinally, just some general cleaning of parts...particularly the Plenum and TB.
This project is what I dream about doing to my car. Thanks for starting the thread it will help me a lot.
ceningolmo wrote: I'm just hoping to survive this. Luckily Wes agreed to help me this coming Sunday. So, he will be here for reassembly.

That may be the only way my car finishes this adventure in an operational state.
Come on have faith. Take on the Q.. 1 on 1 . I'm just kidding. I wouldn't . I'd definitely feel much more comfortable having Wes there too. You're lucky...count your blessings.
ceningolmo wrote:Currently 16 degrees in my garage. I tried to work on stuff for about 5 minutes... froze my *** off... hands went numb and I dropped a socket somewhere in the valley of the engine.

I gave up and went inside for hot chocolate.

I'll try again tomorrow. Must...buy...heater!
. I know the feeling. It's -11° here.

Good Luck with the project and I can't wait to hear about the results, especially the driveability difference.

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elwesso
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just so everyone knows, im ammenable to being a traveling "tech"... fly me or pay for my gas and ill do whatever you need done on your Q

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ceningolmo
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Since I will be performing this project on both of my Q45a's... I ordered two of all the parts.

Here are some pics of the KS, O2, spark plugs, Under Plenum hose kits, and By Pass hose kits after they arrived.



Also, since I will be performing this project in arctic-like conditions, I decided a garage heater would be a good idea. Here are some pics of what I bought.


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elwesso
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this kind of organization sickens me... What fun is the worlds most expensive jigsaw puzzle if you dont have to hunt around for the right piece???

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ceningolmo
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And... here is the heater/Propane tank now that I finally got it set up. Working in a nice warm garage is the only way to go!

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elwesso wrote:just so everyone knows, im ammenable to being a traveling "tech"... fly me or pay for my gas and ill do whatever you need done on your Q
I think you're confusing "tech" and "call girl".

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ceningolmo
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It is a "full service" visit when Wes comes over to help with your Q.

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ceningolmo
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ceningolmo
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ceningolmo
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Ok... so it's been a while since I updated anything.

I pulled all the hoses, pulled the plenum, pulled the injectors, pulled the intake runners, and pulled KS.

Injector harness and KS harness sucked... they were old, brittle, and did not appear reliable. So, ordered new ones of each. **** those were expensive! $95 for the KS harness, $50 for the injector harness even though it has about 10x the amount of wire and connections. Anyway... those should be here tomorrow.

Accumulators showed up for both Q's today... Thanks Keith!! I'll get the dead ones back to you ASAP.

Pulled 7 of the spark plugs today, will finish the last one tomorrow. I'll get the ornament covers on tomorrow as well.

Here are some pics of some of the work with plugs...



The spark plugs I pulled don't appear to be more than a year old... I didn't know they had been replaced so recently or I wouldn't have bothered. But, since I was in there, I decided to replace them anyway. On the plus side... I'll sell the used ones I took out to someone for cheap. They look barely used.

My plan from here is the finish spark plugs, button up the ornament covers, and be done with anything related to the plugs. From there I will replace the KS harness and put in the new KS. After that, I will start reinstalling hoses... until I get to the injectors. I'll install new injector harness and reinstall freshly Deatsched injectors (3 of mine were completely dead and 2 more were nearly dead!). Once injectors, harness, and runners are all installed I'll move on to the plenum.

Hopefully i can get all that finished in a reasonable amount of time. When I get the engine compartment finished, i'm going to install the last 5 recharged accums, new brake pads, and do the O2 sensors. Then I'm done with the Silver one.

After that, it's time to repeat the whole process on the green Q. But, I'm going to add a little something new...I'm going to reseal the valve covers! Yikes... that should be interesting.

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ceningolmo
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Ok... put the ornament covers back on, hooked everything back up again. I pulled the KS and Injector harness out. Replaced KS and KS harness.

Time to start replacing hoses!


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Q451990
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I'm sure you probably know this, but be sure to lubricate the o-rings on the injectors before reinstallation. A pinched lower o-ring can cause massive flooding and hydrolocking...

Be sure to tie that garage heater down... looks like it could propel itself right out of there! Might not be bad to have a CO2 detector in the garage too

Looks like you're having fun... keep up the pictures!

Heath

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ooooh your so lucky !!and ive been there with the cold heater is def the only way to go keep up the good work and great pictures!

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ceningolmo
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Q451990 wrote:I'm sure you probably know this, but be sure to lubricate the o-rings on the injectors before reinstallation. A pinched lower o-ring can cause massive flooding and hydrolocking...

Be sure to tie that garage heater down... looks like it could propel itself right out of there! Might not be bad to have a CO2 detector in the garage too

Looks like you're having fun... keep up the pictures!

Heath
Sounds like Wes will be present for reinstallation of injectors... so, I'm sure he will keep me from doing anything that cause death to my engine.

As for the heater... it is an 80K BTU unit...and it sounds like freaking jet plane is taking off when I start it up. I'm not complaining... it's nice to work in a warm garage, but man that thing SERIOUS. I'm afraid to aim in the wrong direction for fear that it may begin peeling paint of the car or melting the walls of my garage.

CO2 detector? Would this help me with the fits of dizziness, black outs, and the feeling that I'm thinking REALLY slow? What if these symptoms don't necessarily present themselves just when the heater is on... what if, hypothetically, these symptoms have been routinely presenting themselves ever since the purchase of my first Q45?

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ceningolmo wrote:
CO2 detector? Would this help me with the fits of dizziness, black outs, and the feeling that I'm thinking REALLY slow? What if these symptoms don't necessarily present themselves just when the heater is on... what if, hypothetically, these symptoms have been routinely presenting themselves ever since the purchase of my first Q45?
Good stuff

Funny side note... a friend of mine said that firefighters and city police woke him up at 3:00a on Wednesday. Long story short, the readings in his upstairs neighbor's apartment were high - and his were higher... apparently a boiler in the basement had a problem. After huddling in a blanket on the couch for a few hours with all of the doors and windows open to a lovely Hoboken, NJ night - he went to work on 3 hours of sleep. I'm beginning to think that every house with any type of fossil fuel fired appliance should have a CO detector.

Heath


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ceningolmo
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Well... Wes and I spent the day doing reassembly today. All went reasonably well with a couple of minor snags. Nothing too ugly.

Unfortunately, in the end, we weren't able to get the car to idle properly. It started ok... will run smoothly for a moment, and then the idle drops significantly and will eventually stall. It is clear by the whistling sound that there is a vacuum leak somewhere in the system.

Sadly, I'm just too flippin tired to worry about fixing it right now. Wes took off (thanks again Wes!) with my car not running at the moment. Fortunately, he didn't seem to think it would be too tough to fix.

Seems like the #1 cylinder was the source of the air leak. So, sometime in the next couple of days I am going to remove the plenum and some hoses and see if I can reseat the gaskets and double check that all the hoses are sealed up properly and that all looks well and good. Hopefully that will fix up the air leak. If not, I'm sure I'll be back on here asking *** loads of questions.

More pictures to come... when I'm less tired and dejected.

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ceningolmo
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More pics of reassembly... which was unsuccesful. I am now taking the plenum off and will begin reassembly again.

Wes thought it was a good idea to go back and double check all the seals and connections. Air is coming in from somewhere. I shall find it!


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Where exactly did you put that thumb?

One trick for finding vacuum leaks is spraying something cobustable under the hood (like brake parts cleaner or carb cleaner) at different areas. When the idle changes you know it's being sucked in and burning. I think it will make your second plenum job easier if you know where you're going to fix the leak.

The good news is that your second time around will be much easier...Good Luck!

Heath

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elwesso
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All I can say Heath......... I was forced to go in manually....

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ceningolmo
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That was just after Wes did the proctology exam on me. I didn't remember that as a part of the original write up for this job... but, he was very insistent that it was a necessary part of the process. So...

maxnix
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ceningolmo wrote:That was just after Wes did the proctology exam on me. I didn't remember that as a part of the original write up for this job... but, he was very insistent that it was a necessary part of the process. So...
Trust no "spare" parts were left out?

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ceningolmo
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Well.. after taking things back apart I found a couple points of interest. The engine was not in running condition when Wes left...there definately was an air leak somewhere.

I have removed plenum, fuel rail, and runners again and here are a few of the highlights.

There were a couple of hoses that were not replaced that were iffy. One or two had some splits in them...so, I'm going to replace those.

I missed A LOT of clamps. I mean... A LOT. Its ridiculous... I knew there were one or two that I couldn't get to when I was putting things back together... but, this is just out of hand. I found probably 8 connections with no clamp on them.

I failed to install the new gasket on the IAC.

I failed to refill the coolant from the liquid that was lost when I pulled out the y shaped hose thing in the valley of the engine.

I failed to tighten the clamp on the main coolan hose running to the fill nozzle on the coolant system.

There were at least 3, possibly 4, small vacuum hoses that got disconnected or were never connected in the first place.

I found a pretty good sized chunk of plastic (about the size of a small fingernail) stuck between the intake gasket and the intake below the #1 runner. I'm sure this is where my issues with bolt alignment on #1 came from....and, probably didn't help with the air leaks.

So...I'm going to finish removing the rest of the runners and check those for any debris I missed the first time through. I'll remove the gaskets and give them a light cleaning (I never removed them the first time... I planned to but never did).

How do you guys feel about using a little RTV around the edges of the runners to make sure I get a good seal? Certainly this would be a very small amount...and, of course, it would be around the outside edge in order to make sure no RTV bleeds toward the intake holes. Since I am putting in the effort to clean all this stuff...I would like to be positive that I got a good seal on it this time.

After that I will go back through everything with a fine tooth comb... make sure it is all perfect. No missed clamps, no missed gaskets, no missed vacuum hoses. Christ, I feel like an idiot for missing that much ****.

Hopefully, I'll have learned all the hard lessons before I get started on the Green Q. I'm doing valve covers on that one...so, it would be nice if the stuff with hoses and runners went a little smoother next time.


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