Too much fuel on start-up

[myRed240]

I tried to start my car the other day and all I got was sputtering and fuel spitting out of the exhaust side of turbo. I pulled the plugs and they were soaked in gas. Tried several times to no avail.

Went back today and was going to inspect the injectors, so I pulled the fuel pump fuse, removed gas cap and then cranked it to relieve fuel pressure. To my amazement it fired up. It ran like crap but it stayed on. I turned it off, replaced the fuse and tried to crank it up, but it wouldn't-same symptoms as before. Removed the fuse again and it started again. WTF?

Can all of you very knowledgeable folks please help a struggling ka-t owner out?

Here's what I've added to my car:

NGK BKR7E plugs (at first gapped to .033, now at .042)Z32 fuel filterEnthalpy ECU tuned for:New Walbro 255 fuel pumpNew DW 555cc injectorsZ32 MAF

(plus all the other turbo stuff)

[Florida240sx]

You got an adjustable FPR???Sounds like with your new fuel pump has too much pressure... But car should still start mine did, and I have same set-up...Your plugs need ot be gapped to below 32.Check all your plug wires for spark... maybe one is bad...You touch anything on the car before this happening?? Or just running fine parked it and then problems??.....Also after checkign for spark check the ecu. There is little chips he has maybe one is loose? They fit in real tight though but have heard through shipping they come loose sometimes.

[myRed240]

No FPR. Do I need one? Which do you recommend?Plugs were at .032 but gapped them back up thinking it was part of the problem. Plug wires are newer NGK's. This is the first start up after install. I'll check the ECU next for a loose chip.

Thanks!

[lrb_2000]

I'm running my stock FPR at 12psi and i'm fine. Same with my friend how is running 15psi. Both with walbro's I believe....Make sure you're getting spark. Also, make sure your injectors are sealed tight, and not stuck open.

BTW nice car.. I can't believe how low of miles it has.

[j-z]

pull your rail off with the lines still attatched and turn the pump on. you might have some ripped oring causing leaking and no start up. i know my deatschworks add too much fuel only on start up because sometimes after i drive it somewhere and park it ill come back to start it up, and itll sputter down and i have to open the throttle. few times it happened and it wouldnt start at all. i just unplugged the fuel pump fuse and the car fired right up and ran fine for a sec or two. put the fuse back in and it started right up. my conclusion is that they are adding a bit too much fuel in on start up. i know theyre not leaking either because i did the test i suggested before i put them in, so i know its the injectors themselves. oh well, when i go 740s it def wont be deatchworks thats for sure....

[myRed240]

Yeah I'm definately going to take a look at the injectors/O-rings. I think I'm getting spark since it did start eventually...

Thanks for the input guys!

[Zion8561]

sometimes after i drive it somewhere and park it ill come back to start it up, and itll sputter down and i have to open the throttle. few times it happened and it wouldnt start at all.

I am 90% certain that your problem is a faulty coolant temp sensor or fouled wire harness that connects it.

[WDRacing]

You don't need an adjustable FPR, but a gauge would be nice to know what your fuel pressure is running at. As an example, my buddies Skyline had the return line get crimped, effectivly increasing his pressure to 53psi at idle...made for some bad starts.

Also, you want to run the most gap you can in your spark plugs until they can no longer fire do to the amount of boost you run. The larger spark means more energy to cause the explosion...make sense? Only when the compression of to much boost occurs do you decrease your plug gap. I ran 28psi of boost and my plugs were gapped at .032.

Check the injectors for leaks, let us know.

WD

[myRed240]

What's the best way to check injectors for leaks? A visual inspection or...?Thanks WD.

[WDRacing]

YEs sir, a visual is the best way. The issue could still be spark related. I was thinking that maybe your spark is so weak that it only lights off when there is hardly any fuel...I dunno.

Pull the rail off, energize the pump, but don't turn the motor over. See if the injectors are leaking when the rail is pressurized. Plull your plugs, clean them up and just go over the wires for ignition. Pull the fuse for the pump, have someone turn the motor over while your holding the plug wire to your tongue...kidding, to the block or metal of somekind to see if there is a decent spark.

Jump on AIM if ya wanna BS, I'm WDRacin

WD

[Florida240sx]

. Pull the fuse for the pump, have someone turn the motor over while your holding the plug wire to your tongue...WD

How bad would that shock your friend??

[crzycav86]

I am 90% certain that your problem is a faulty coolant temp sensor or fouled wire harness that connects it.

i was thinking something like this as well... or the cold-enrichment settings from the tune are way too rich.

[Biggamehit]

How bad would that shock your friend??

dude that made my night LMAO

glad you put kidding on there.

i shocked my self pretty good the other night. my car was running really ****. so i popped my bonnet and i see the ****ing 4th wire arcing of the vavle cover. so i grabed it. and i should have known better not to complete the circuit. and i ****ing touched my fender and i was getting a pretty good jolt for about 3 seconds.

[myRed240]

Okay, so I went to my car to remove the fuel rail and do some troubleshooting. When I arrived the guy at the exhaust shop says that the car starts up, but idles pretty bad. I said, "WTF? The fuel pump fuse isn't in and it starts up? " He said, "Yep. It runs like crap, but it starts."

So I went to my car, observe that the fuse is not in and proceed to start it up. He's right, it does idle pretty rough. I didn't let it run for more than a minute, and I kept expecting it to cut out, but it didn't.

Can someone explain this to me? Why would the car run with no fuse in?

I'm still going to take the rail off and inspect it this weekend, but I need some sort of explanation.

Is there some way that I could have wired the fuel pump wrong? I'm pretty sure I didn't, as I studied the diagram over and over.

Thanks again!

[WDRacing]

Have you rewired the pump?

[myRed240]

The only re-wiring I did was when I installed the walbro fuel pump.

Is it possible to have wired it wrong? I only remember two wires from the pump, power and ground.

If the fuse is removed, does the pump still receive any power? Say if I turn the motor on to energize the pump, but I don't turn the motor over, will the pump still recieve power? If so, would this just mean that the injectors are leaking enough to allow the engine to run?

I'm gonna review the wiring diagrams from my FSM. And then continue to study for a friggin computer programming exam

[myRed240]

Bump for some more help...

Started the car today, it ran for only a few seconds. It wouldn't start up after that. Put the fuse back in and still nothing.

Checked the injectors, O-rings look good. Pulled the plugs and they were fouled up! Now I've got to pick some more up. Wasn't able to pull the whole rail off simply because I couldn't get to a nut on the left side.

Anyone got any other suggestions?

THanks!

[WDRacing]

Ok, so the pump isn't getting power with the fuse out right? You need a fuel pressure gauge, I'd buy one asap. Once the lines have fuel in them, the car will run for a few minutes until the fuel system is depleted. But with the fuse pulled, you should definitly have no power at the pump.

Is the IAT sensor installed? How about the water temp sensor? Having any of thses faulty will give you some problems, although I doubt this severe.

[myRed240]

Ok, so the pump isn't getting power with the fuse out right? You need a fuel pressure gauge, I'd buy one asap. Once the lines have fuel in them, the car will run for a few minutes until the fuel system is depleted. But with the fuse pulled, you should definitly have no power at the pump.

Is the IAT sensor installed? How about the water temp sensor? Having any of thses faulty will give you some problems, although I doubt this severe.

I don't think it's getting power with the fuse out... what's the best way to tell? I'll definitely look into a fuel pressure gauge.

The IAT sensor is plugged in, but it's just sitting next to the maf/filter, as my piping is not completed yet. I have my AEM intake hooked up right now so that the IACV, valve cover and egr vac line is getting metered air correctly.

I never messed with the water temp sensor, so I didn't think it was a problem.

Thanks again WD!

[WDRacing]

Best way to see if the pumps getting power is to pull off the line, turn the key to acc and see if the pump comes on. Let me get a another guy involved here...he may have some idea's

WD

[EstoMax]

i would check your MAF too. the thick white wire is not the signal wire! (that was my prob) when i first put my z32 MAF on i wired it backwards and it flooded the hell out of the motor... only got it to run with fuel pump fuse out but unlike yours mine would die after 10-15 sec.

Marko

[myRed240]

Hmm, can you give me the wiring order (colors)?I followed this: http://www.jimwolftechnology.c...S.PDF

and referenced my FSM. I believe I wired it the way you just said not to.

That would be firggin' awesome if it's a simple wiring problem (unless I need a new MAF).

Thanks guys!

[WDRacing]

I wired mine using that same diagram and mine worked as advertised...sorry.

[C-Kwik]

Try pulling the spark plugs and disconnect each of the injector plugs. Might have a friend help with this. Keep the fuel pump fuse in. And do this with the engine cold (not that you have the ability to really warm the thing up). Crank the motor with the starter, and have a friend watch. Of there is a bad o-ring, then fuel will begine to pop out out of the cylinders as it cranks.

It may be able to start without the fuel pump fuse as there may be fuel pressure in the lines and it may be leaking enough to keep the engine idling. It sounds like you may have more than one-o-ring leaking though. You'll be able to tell which ones when you see the ful come up out of the spark plug holes. If you do this alone, you can see fuel come up through the gap under the hood(hood open) from the driver's seat. To figure out which one, take a couple sheets of paper towel and lay them over the holes. Place a wrench or something on top to hold it in place. Crank it again. Check the paper towel and look to see which holes caused the paper towel to get wet.

Visual inspections of o-rings can be tricky. They tend to become brittle when exposed to fuel and break and tear when removing.

If the o-rings are replaced, replace all of them. Use new ones and perhaps use some vasoline on them to help keep them from tearing when you are installing them. Make sure everything lines up well as you install. If you do replace the o-rings, try removing the entire fuel rail and install the injector in each. Run the fuel pump with the injectors sealed to the rail but watch for leaks at the pintle.

[C-Kwik]

I am 90% certain that your problem is a faulty coolant temp sensor or fouled wire harness that connects it.

Doubtful. I had a problem with the coolant temp sensor wire(broken inside the insulation). The ECU ignores the signal for a certain period of time upon start-up. Then once it detects the problem, the coolant sensor giving no or a very erratic signal, it goes into a failsafe mode, limiting you to 1500 RPM. This was on a 98 240 that I had the issue with. The motor would start up fine with a bad signal. It would idle fine as well. It would limit RPM, but otherwise would be fine. I limped my car home with less than 1500 RPM many times when I was troubleshooting that problem.

[WDRacing]

Thanks bro, we needed some different idea's. Hows the BIO coming...LOL.

[Zion8561]

Maybe there is a difference in the ECU programming for the OBD I cars (which mine is) and the OBD II cars when it comes to the CTS? All I know is thats what was causing my car to flood upon startup when it was hot (and would start perfectly fine when cold).

Sounded like JZ was having similar symptoms with his car (don't know what year it is) so I threw it out there. When troubleshooting, I like to start with the simple stuff first.