I think my Chain Guides just went bad (broke) on 91Q

[carlosinseattle]

I was on the highway last night traffic was really bad here in Seattle. As I was coaszting at around 10-15mph I felt a "Clunk". It fels like someone nudged my car from behind or something. I didn't hear anything because I had my music turned up loud.

Next thing I notice is a little red light in the dash that tursn on. When I look closer, I realize it's my oil light. I was amazed, since I just checked the oil this past weekend, and Ichanged it only 3 weeks ago. I turned the stereo down, and I hear the car sounding like someone poured marbles in my oil. I parked it, checked the oil, and the level was fine. I drove it home, around three miles and parked it.

My car is a 91Q with 113K on it. before this it ran super strong. I do have the occassional transmission chuggle problem, but the body is pristine inside and out.

My question is how can I check to see if it is the chain guides and what other problems did this cause like timing chain skipping or other internal damnage? I want to know if it's worth fixing, or should I get a new motor.

Any suggestions??????

[elwesso]

guides wouldnt throw an oil light... unless of course the oil pump chain jumped off... Regardless, your engine is going to be pretty much shot because you tspun a rod bearing and the crank is probably jacked up... MAYBE the crank isnt scored too bad, but i doubt it...

[bullittandy]

Sounds like guides. A new used engine can be had for $1000 plus labor.

Prepare yourself for all kinds of self rightous indignation from a couple of people here about your bad luck.

[elwesso]

BTW i moved your post out of the Q45 forum and merged it with the thread in the online mechanic!

[carlosinseattle]

guides wouldnt throw an oil light... unless of course the oil pump chain jumped off... Regardless, your engine is going to be pretty much shot because you tspun a rod bearing and the crank is probably jacked up... MAYBE the crank isnt scored too bad, but i doubt it...

WOW...OUCH!!!!

You say "Maybe the crank isn't scored too bad" That's encouraging...not.

Actually, I appreciate your honesty. What would I have to do to check things out? Can I just drop the oil pan and take a look at the crank? Are you saying the little pieces of plastic damaged the crank, or is it because of oil starvation? I saw someone's post here where they had a bunch of little plastic pieces clogging up the oil pick up tube. Is that what you think has happened? Can I see that if I drop the pan on my car?

Or should I just call it a loss and move ahead and get a motor? Do you suggest Junkyard or JDM? I have a local yard that I can probably get one for $750.00 delivered. I'm probably looking at the same price, plus shipping if I go the JDM route from Makato in California.

If I go with Junkyard, what are the things to look for? I know to look for chain guide replacement signs, like the color of the sealant. What's the date of manufacture change for the metal guides?

[elwesso]

Carlos, either scenario is possible... Seems odd that the oil light would suddenly come on. You COULD drop the oil pan and see whats goin on, but its quite a bit of work... You could do it though if you wanted, and take a couple bearing caps off and see how the crank is. Youll be able to see the pickup too... regardless, the damange was due to oil startvation, what caused the oil starvation is still very iffy...

Whatever the case is, i wouldnt spend a lot of time dealing with this... The GOOD news is that your top end is probably still just fine... So if you wanted, you could just pull the crank out, have it reground by a machine shop, put new bearings in, and new chain guides, and you may just dandy!

With engines only costing 1000-1500, and you dont do your own labor, it adds up quickly and becomes more cost effective to just get a new engine!

Id probably go with a JDM, but before you pay for it you need to take off the valve cover and see how the head looks as far as cleanliness!

[maxnix]

Prepare yourself for all kinds of self rightous indignation from a couple of people here about your bad luck.

It isn't bad luck if one ignores the warnings and postings on this board. But it can be costly.

It is why the vetted and responsible members of this board always ask new members with 1990-1993 G50 about timing chain guides. We know it has to be addressed and we care about fellow board member's safety and well being. It is not an "if" but a "when" issue. It is a well documented occurence on this board.

Carlos, there are plenty of posts about R&R the timing chain guides and removing the oil pan. Suggest you search and read them.

Also, if you go that route, read Q45tech's post about how JDM engines are selected and rehabilitated. In Seattle, costs will run higher unless you can do it yourself. Joe is your friend for parts.

[bullittandy]

It isn't bad luck if one ignores the warnings and postings on this board. But it can be costly.

It is why the vetted and responsible members of this board always ask new members with 1990-1993 G50 about timing chain guides. We know it has to be addressed and we care about fellow board member's safety and well being. It is not an "if" but a "when" issue. It is a well documented occurence on this board.

Carlos, there are plenty of posts about R&R the timing chain guides and removing the oil pan. Suggest you search and read them.

Also, if you go that route, read Q45tech's post about how JDM engines are selected and rehabilitated. In Seattle, costs will run higher unless you can do it yourself. Joe is your friend for parts.

Right on cue.

BTW, you're right I know its not bad luck (I was being decent-check into it).

[Q451990]

you're right I know its not bad luck (I was being decent-check into it).

Wow... I gotta say, I think people are sometimes over-sensitive to Brian's commentary - but in this case no good can come from scolding someone who just lost their baby. I'm sure Carlos is already beating himself up enough without any help.

Heath

[carlosinseattle]

Wow... I gotta say, I think people are sometimes over-sensitive to Brian's commentary - but in this case no good can come from scolding someone who just lost their baby. I'm sure Carlos is already beating himself up enough without any help.

Heath

Thanks Heath;

I tempted fate and I lost. I kinda wish I had done the job, but I'm not too upset. It's like Kramer on that Seinfeld episode. He kept driving the new car with the salesman in with him to see how far he could make it before it ran out of gas.

Well...Call me Kramer! My luck ran out just like his. I knew the chain guide job would cost a lot in parts and labor anyway, so I figured I wouldn't worry much if it happened. I didn't factor in, or read about, the entire engine needing to be replaced. In some ways, that's a more straightforward job than chain guides. I took the transmission out of my VR4 last summer, so I'm hoping this won't be too much harder.

I'm not being cocky. I serously am open to everybody's suggestions and opinions. Well I guess I now have plans for the weekend.

[bullittandy]

If you replaced a transmission then you can replace this engine. A new used engine might end up costing more when everything is said and done but you'll have an engine with 50-90000 less miles. I'd buy a takeout transmission as well if you can find one with few miles.

Good luck!

[elwesso]

Wow... I gotta say, I think people are sometimes over-sensitive to Brian's commentary - but in this case no good can come from scolding someone who just lost their baby. I'm sure Carlos is already beating himself up enough without any help.

Heath

THANK YOU for that comment!!!!!!!!! Heed these words, all!

I assume that you (carlos) have decided on replacing the motor... My thought for you would be reaplce the motor in the 95 active, put in the 90-93 trans, and restore the active for an AMAZING Q!

[carlosinseattle]

Thanks Wes,

You're right, man that's a great idea. My 91 only has 113K, and the 94Qa has 140K. Much lower miles, and it shifted super strong.

My only concern is the transmission "chuggle" issue I had with my 91. Will it show up on the 94Qa if I put the 91 transmission in it? I hated the chuggle. One of the reasons I wanted a newer Q is because I thought 94 and newer never had the "Chuggle" problem. Is that something I'd have to deal with down the road?

Here's a post about it: zerothread?id=40197

[elwesso]

I dont think its trans related... Just drive it in 3rd gear more often!!! One of the side effects of having only 4 gears for a racing motor!

[carlosinseattle]

I decided to open up the car to see the extent of the damage. I'm a little worried about the water pools uder the intake plenum. Can anyone tell me what this means? Is there a mojor problem with the motor now? If so, what is it?

[maxnix]

I tempted fate and I lost.

There is only one "fate" with the old guides if they are not replaced.

You made your choice, so good luck on the new engine. I strongly suggest you don't ignore Q45tech's selection and rehabilitation procedures also. They too can save you money and heartaache and make your car safer from an operational standpoint.

[maxnix]

I decided to open up the car to see the extent of the damage. I'm a little worried about the water pools uder the intake plenum. Can anyone tell me what this means? Is there a mojor problem with the motor now? If so, what is it?

At the least, it means one fo your under plenum hoses has failed. Not unexpected if they are original. Why a wise owner follows the T-3 JDM takeout engine selction and rehabilitation routine.

Worst case, we won't mention since we're all cuddly here.

[breaksr]

Sorry I just read this message with the anti-freeze under plenum problem. Double check the radiator cap on that metal hose that pokes up (big warning label on the cap) in front of the radiator. Mine went bad (rubber seal deteriated) and about a gallon of anti-freeze shot out and ended up under the plenum. From the looks of that picture there is plenty of green stain on that metal pipe. It's possible that the two cooling hoses under the plenum might be leaking but check the obvious first. To dry out that area under the plenum take some paper towels and a long screw driver with a drill bit taped carefully to the end of the screw driver. Push the paper towel down into the well under the plenum. Let the water and other ick soak up in the towel for a few seconds. Turn the screw driver / drill bit and let it catch the towel. Be careful not to catch any wires under there you can really make a mess. Pull the towel out and keep repeating with new towels until all of the fluid is gone. Use only two towels at a time and they should be your standard paper towels. You should be able to pick up any pieces that tear off so don't worry about that. The drill bit catches onto the towel quite well. It helps to use a very bright light in there so you can see what you are doing. Enjoy.