Lowering vert

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94_240sx
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I want to lower my vert bad and stock setup is bit soft for me. I was going to get KTS coilovers, but I'm having second thought. To be honest with you, I don't know what's going to be the best for me. If I buy KTS coilovers, I have to spend about $1100, so I'm just trying to be careful before I go ahead and do that. Anyone moved from shock and spring combo such as AGX+Sportline/Tein to coilovers? How was your overall experience and what do you recommend? I'd like to know ride quality, adjustbility and etc.

I searched, but couldn't find AZHitman's setup. I remember his car has a decent drop. Mine will be daily driver, so I don't want too much bumpy ride. I heard KTS is not that bad as a daily driver and that's why I was going to get KTS. BTW, I searched ebay for Eibach Sportline springs and desc. said "Exc. convertibles." Is it true?


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AZhitman
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I had Tein S-Tech's and AGX GR-2 shocks and it was very nice.

Disregard the "except convertibles" nonsense, your car is a coupe with no top.

I now have coilovers, but they're more for show, as I preferred the ride on the Tein's.

Cheap, good quality, nice ride. You can't go wrong.

No need for coilovers on a non-track car IMO.

ca18datsun510
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i have silkroad coilovers in my vert.

they actually ride better in the vert then they did when i had my hatch.

i love them, 8k springs front 6k rear for reference.

94_240sx
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Thanks for your quick response. AZHitman. Yeah, I remember now. AGX+Tein S. Tech. I guess there will be slightly more drop for vert since it's bit heavier than coupe. Maybe it won't be noticeable at all. I know shock & spring will be bit more comfy, but coilover's height adjustability is pretty attractive too. Anyway, It looks like if I go with shock and spring combo, it looks like best bet will be AGX with Tein S. Tech or Eibach sportline. I'd like to have some more inputs. I appreciate if you guys can share your experiences.

94_240sx
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"they actually ride better in the vert then they did when i had my hatch."

I guess it's because vert is bit heavier that hatch???

KTS coilovers spring rate is same as Silkroad 6 front / 8 rear.

One more question. It looks like I can't go wider than 215/45 tire on 17x8 +33 rims in front if I have KTS coilovers. If I get shocks and springs, can I have wider tires than 215?

fallingspeaker
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How low was the drop with your tein/agx setup azhitman? Also, does the amount of drop have anything to do with wheels not fitting (for later)? I've been searching and have been reading about your setup you had a couple years ago... I wanna drop and have a fairly comfortable ride with still some added performance but I don't wanna scrape on everything.

My thingy on the bottom of the engine (the cover thing) is kinda drooping a bit i guess since the old owner musta ran over a few robot children and messed it up.

94_240sx
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That's kinda where I'm at. I want to get rid of huge wheel gap, but have decent ride quality and good handling. If I can have a nice setup, I don't mind speding $1100 for coilovers. I'm just afraid that coilovers might be a overkill.

"My thingy on the bottom of the engine (the cover thing) is kinda drooping a bit i guess since the old owner musta ran over a few robot children and messed it up."

That's usually called lower cooling panel. I took mine off when I replaced PS hose. Without it, it's not going to hurt anything much, but your engine room will get dusty faster.

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AZhitman
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94_240sx wrote:One more question. It looks like I can't go wider than 215/45 tire on 17x8 +33 rims in front if I have KTS coilovers. If I get shocks and springs, can I have wider tires than 215?
I ran 245/40/17 on 17x8 +33. You'll be fine.

215's on a 8" rim? Ugh. Stretched, stiff, and ugly (IMO).

94_240sx
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"I ran 245/40/17 on 17x8 +33. You'll be fine. 215's on a 8" rim? Ugh. Stretched, stiff, and ugly (IMO)."

That's very good to know!!! It looks like I have 2 choices with KTS coils. 215 or 225, but most people said 215 is safe, and they couldn't guarantee 225 to fit in front. SPL also said 225 might fit depends on camber, brand of tires...etc. Yes, I know 215 looks ugly on 8" rim. I'm leaning toward to shock and spring combo.

245/40 17 sounds great on 17x8 +33. Do I have to roll rear fender with that tire size? I know AGX is popular among 240 people, so I'll go with it, but how about springs? S. Tech or Eibach? What do you recommend for the vert? I want stiff and more drop.

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NISXAN
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I installed some kyb/agx combos with H&R springs last fall. I got about a 1.5" drop in the front and a 2.0" drop in the rear. The fronts are 4-way adjustable and the rear are 8-way.

I love them! Plus, I bought them from a friend who was getting rid of his car, so I got the whole set for $200!

fallingspeaker
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I don't know if anyone has ever driven in hawaii but the roads are terrible with 9 foot deep potholes every yard or so. Would coilovers really hurt my bum and shake my teeth loose on roads like these? Adjustable height sounds pretty cool... but having a soft squishy butt instead of a calloused one also sounds good.

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AZhitman
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Definitely skip the coilovers then...

We're fortunate, Phoenix has some of the best roads and freeways in America. No potholes, fresh asphalt everywhere....

fallingspeaker
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lucky...

Here's how it works in hawaii. It rains... giant pothole developes, 4 years later they fill it in with sand then cover it with 2 inches of "fresh asphalt". 3 days later it rains and goes back to how it used to be 4 years ago.

Repeat.

Government is so cheap...

Probably go with springy things then. Oh yeah, because the roads are so rough here, I hear every single rattle inside of the vert door panels... really gets to you after a while haha.

I guess you can be sure of one thing here tho... everytime you wash your car it rains exactly 23.71 seconds after you dry the last panel, like clockwork.

Oh well enough advertising about paradise, i still love it.

Thanks for your info azhitman.

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cmkelly
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It never rained on Magnum PI.....

94_240sx
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Please help!! I did my homework for shock and spring combo and decided to get KYB AGX with new springs. AGX looks like best bang for the buck and performs well. Problem is I'm having hard time choosing the springs. I want good drop and performance. I've been searching Nico and found some good information so far. I got the prices from eBay though.

-------------------------------------------------------Spring Drop (F/R) Price-------------------------------------------------------Suspension Techniques 1.3/1.3 ?RSR Down 1.6/1.2 $240S-Tech 1.5/1.2 $145 (Most popular with AGX)Eibach Prokit 1.8/1.6 $205 (2nd most popular)Eibach Sportline 2.2/2.1 $207.48 (I heard actual drop is 1.75)Whiteline Control 1.6/1.8 $259 (No one sells it. Out of stock at PDM)H&R SPORT 1.3/1.3 $222.39-------------------------------------------------------

One thing that I noticed was drop was different from car to car although same spring was installed on same type of car. Also most of the time, springs don't lower cars than their spec says. I wonder which spring will be most safe bet for my 240 vert. Again, I want noticeable drop to get rid of my wheel gap and have a nice stance. It looks like Sportline gives good drop, but what if it's too low. Besides, some people don't like it because shocks tend to blow sooner and voids AGX warranty. Your input will be appreciated. What do you recommend guys or what was your experience like with aftermarket springs? I really want to make a decision ASAP.

attwater
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Do this: Tanabe GF210 Springs with KYB AGX struts. The owner of the Speed Alliance in San Diego (Chris) is a big fan of our cars. I have purchased more parts through him and his associate Warren than anywhere else. Chris and Warren did the research and recommended this combo. I bought it last year and the drop was dead on and the ride quality is fantastic. ...and thanks to Chris the price was lower than anywhere else. I think it is http://www.speedalliance.com Talk to Chris or Warren and tell them Jay with the red 240sx vert sent you. These guys like our cars and they have managed to get me parts that no one else can get, at prices that no one can touch. Nice people. Yeah I know it looks like I am giving a sales pitch, but I am loyal to that shop for the service they have provided. It isn't always easy finding people you can trust in the world of cars...

94_240sx
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Thanks attwater. Googled for specs and got this.

Spring Rate: Front (2.9kg/mm), Rear (2.7kg/mm) Avg. Lower: Front (1.5), Rear (1.0)

Spring rate is good and drop is okay. How low is your vert now with this setup. Got any pics? I'll definitely look into this.

attwater
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Keep in mind that the car will drop a little lower than published due to the fact that it is a convertible. The verts are heavier...Overall I am extremely happy with the setup.

94_240sx
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That is gorgeous!!! Drop looks just about right for me. What are the specs for your rims and tires? I have new 17x8 rims and am thinking about getting 245/40s all around. I got below specs from wheel & suspension forum and I think I'll get one of these, Tein S-Tech or Tanabe GF210. I want to see some pics of vert with AGX+Tein S.Tech. Anyone? I wonder what other people think about these 2 springs. If Tanabe offers slightly more drop, I'll definitely go with it. But I wonder how lower S. Tech will go on a vert. Thanks a bunch attwater! I'm glad that I'm going somewhere.

TEIN S-TECH ($145 shipped on eBay)(progressive, TEIN only lists the maximal rate)Spring Rate - F : 3.7Spring Rate - R : 3.2Ride Height - F : -1.5"Ride Height - R : -1.2"

TANABE GF210 ($169.26 shipped from http://www.4myride.com/index.c...01800)Spring Rate - F : 2.9Spring Rate - R : 2.7Ride Height - F : -1." to -1.6"Ride Height - R : -.6" to -1"

BTW, I also found this.Specification-----------convertible -------coupe ---------hatchback Curb Weight, lbs. -------2800----------2699 --------------2730
Modified by 94_240sx at 2:34 PM 7/11/2006

fallingspeaker
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of those two (tanabe vs. tein) which has the softer ride? Does the higher spring rate of tein mean harsher?

attwater
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Thanks for the compliment! Wheels are 17". Tires are 215-45-17. The car has a wider stance due to the H&R (15mm) spacers. Needed them in order to clear the wheels away from the 300Z/Brembo brake conversion (the wheels would've rubbed the calipers otherwise). The spacers really changed the look of the car.Honestly I would not go any lower than my current setup. Any lower and things get messy. I was able to adjust the front camber perfectly without adding a camber kit, but for the rear I needed to cut/slot the arms in order to pull the wheels out (there may be a rear camber kit available now, but there wasn't a year ago). Any lower and the car would not make it into gas stations and the alignment would be a mess. Furthermore, 245 tires might not allow you to stear anymore, you might want to look into that or ask the forum. There are some smart people around here.Talk to Chris at Speed Alliance and he'll beat whatever price you can find... He gave me a great deal on the suspension.

94_240sx
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Can't tell exactly, but I think GF210 will be harshier. S. Tech spring is progressive and below spring rate only shows maximum rate for S. Tech. It means S. Tech might be more comfort under normal driving condition, but spring rate goes up and reach below maximum as you push them to the limit.

Tein S. TechSpring Rate - F : 3.7Spring Rate - R : 3.2

TANABE GF210Spring Rate - F : 2.9Spring Rate - R : 2.7
Modified by 94_240sx at 2:07 PM 7/12/2006

fallingspeaker
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Hey so what if I have those stock SE rims... Will the drop be too low because I dont have a bigger tire?

Also kinda side tracked question (no I didn't search), Do you think the SE rims will fit z32 brakes?

94_240sx
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You can get camber adjustment kit from PDM Racing.

http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/suspension.html

Wheels are 17". Tires are 215-45-17. --> What is the offset?

The car has a wider stance due to the H&R (15mm) spacers. --> Did you roll put them on all 4 corners? If so, did you roll rear fenders?

Any lower and the car would not make it into gas stations and the alignment would be a mess. --> I live in N. Dallas where roads are pretty nice and clean. We just have flat surface around here.

Furthermore, 245 tires might not allow you to stear anymore, you might want to look into that or ask the forum. --> AZHitman told me that 245/40 17 with +33 offset will work with no problem.

Talk to Chris at Speed Alliance and he'll beat whatever price you can find... --> If I decide to go for Tanabe(probably), I'll definitely do that.

94_240sx
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"Hey so what if I have those stock SE rims... Will the drop be too low because I dont have a bigger tire?"

Actually, radius for the stock SE rim and tire is 12.1 inch and radius of attwater's tire is 12.3 inch, so there's not much difference. IIRC, stock size is 195/60 15 and his tire is 215/45 17. You can go here and check it your self. This site comes in handy.

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

94_240sx
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attwater,Do you have so called "ganstalean" with that setup?

It's common for aftermarket shocks and spring setup. I just want to double check it...

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madcowvert
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for the money you spend on shocks and spring i would just get megan coilovers i have never heard a complaint.

also however you drop your car whether it be spings or full bodys do your self a favor and got and get an aligment. alot of people think that is is camber that kills tires but it is really the toe-in and toe-out that kills tires. camber would just were out the inside of the tire but and the same rate as if the tire had no camber.

so go get an aligement right after.

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madcowvert
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attwater wrote:Keep in mind that the car will drop a little lower than published due to the fact that it is a convertible. The verts are heavier...Overall I am extremely happy with the setup.
there are two reassons why they tell you except convertibels. because the sping rate and damper settings are diffrent. the body of the convertibel has been so renforced that when you drop it the ride won't be as good as befor ( i'm not saying that its bad ) because the body is alot more rigid and dose not felx as much.

attwater
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To answer your questions:--> What is the offset? I bought the wheels a few years ago. Pretty sure the offset was the same as stock. I'd need to look it up.

--> Did you roll put them on all 4 corners? If so, did you roll rear fenders?No I didn't roll fenders. When buying spacers you measure out from the sidewall to the fender to determine what size spacers to buy.

--> I live in N. Dallas where roads are pretty nice and clean. We just have flat surface around here.....Yeah, I live in the Chicago burbs and the roads are pretty decent here. You don't notice driveways and curbs and other issues until you have a low car...

--> AZHitman told me that 245/40 17 with +33 offset will work with no problem. Well go for it then.

As for "gangstalean" (never heard that before). I never noticed a lean in my car. So thanks for bringing up something to drive me crazy I just stepped out of my office to take a look. My car isn't on flat ground, so it is hard to tell. However, I did not notice any significant lean, nor has anyone ever mentioned it.

For Madcowvert: Bad negative camber will wear out a set of good tires in no time (as will toe). I can show you what happens to a set of tires after one years worth of driving with too much negative camber. ...down to the cords. Tires don't normally wear out in one year. More weight and pressure falls to the inside and wears them faster (less surface area on the road). ...and yes, any time suspension is messed with, an alignment is in order immediately. I always abide by that rule.

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madcowvert
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i was talking more about the people that say that they killed a set of tiers in a week and blame it on camber but it was really the toe in and toe out. but i know you can see where i was going with this.


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