Why so much hatin on entry level coilovers??

[ddgsxr504]

Ok yeah this should be in the suspension forum but there is much more traffic here and my question is mostly 240 biased.

Why is there so much hate against K sport and Megan Coilovers??

I know that JIC, KTS, Tein, Apexi, and Tanabe ect are more well known and reliable (supposedly) but I did a little research on all of these.

Most coilovers run the same spring rates with the common being 7/5kgmm

The first thing I noticed is that some are inverted design and some are not. Also to use Ksports for example, (yes I run these but this example is non-biased), I noticed that on the Ksports the mouting portion of the sleeve (where it bolts to the spindle) on the front coilovers is one pieced CNC machined aluminum where as Apexi, JIC, and Tein are all welded on. So aside from valving design how are the others stronger?? I only say this because I have heard rumors of the Ksports breaking on people.

Discuss:

[sleepsilvia]

i've seen some tein and tanabe coilovers go for about the same for what the megan racing does. i'd feel more comfortable with one of those companies anyways.

[ddgsxr504]

Yeah but why do you have experience with any or all of them??? That doesn't really bring any insight does it.

[sleepsilvia]

i'm not tryin to say that they suck, but from what i've heard, people have been satisfied with tein and other of the "top brands". i would rather be using parts from a company that i know will perform well than a company that only a few people have used. the only way you can find out is to test them yourself. i'm not sayin that megan racing is a cheap brand because i know people who have their parts on their cars and they speak highly of them.

[Chingon]

Good dampers are big money. I suppose people assume (and most of the time it's a good assumption), that the more you pay w/big brand names reflects on the quality of the dampers themselves. I really like the ksport housings much better (less unsprung weight) but the dynos reflects not such great characteristics (i think I saw some floating on FA). The other companies that you mention use welded steel brackets which is much stronger than aluminum, but aluminum is an excellent component for strut housings/etc.. itself. I've been meaning to buy a set of blown k-sports to experiment w/some koni race inserts... but have really have not the time or motivation..

I know k-sport started carrying inverted design for the s13-s14, but they are big money..

[ddgsxr504]

The other companies that you mention use welded steel brackets which is much stronger than aluminum, but aluminum is an excellent component for strut housings/etc.. itself.

I agree with you just about everything you have said but being an NDI Tech and getting my degree in metallurgy I am sorry to say that welded steel brackets will never be as strong as a mount completely CNC machined out of a solid block of 6061-T6 aluminum. Welds are stronger than the actual metal so cracks will develop in the edges of the welds.

That's neither here nor there so I guess we'll have to see how well Megans/Ksports hold up to the many successful years of the "top brand" manufacturers.

[masticatingcow]

That's neither here nor there so I guess we'll have to see how well Megans/Ksports hold up to the many successful years of the "top brand" manufacturers.

Bah! KTS for lyphe!

I hear you, brotha, and it's great to see someone thinking critically on this. Let me toss this into the mix... there's a lot more to a damper/spring combo than the welds. Remember that the effectiveness of the coilover is wrapped up in the valving of the damper and the choice of an appropriate spring. Perhaps I've not been around cars long enough (doubtful), but I've NEVER seen a damper assembly break at the bracket. Most of the time, the kind of force that would do that is either absorbed by something else (like the chassis in a collision) or is cushioned by the design of the damper itself!

Regardless, I believe that often enough, we are paying for a name brand when we shell out extra cash for parts... but at the same time, we're also buying the assurance that hundreds, if not THOUSANDS, of like units have been used by similiarly-minded folks for often very similiar applications with some measurable degree of success.

[lrb_2000]

I've never riden on any other coilovers, but i've had my KSports for about 6 months now.. and love them, I don't know what the difference would be.. I got them for the Street though, I didn't feel comfortable spending $1300+ on coilovers, that i'm not going to use to the full extent.. so I bought these for like $800, and love the 7kg/5kg spring rate.. it's not too bad for daily driving.. they have open adjustments, no clicks.. so you can set the dampening wherever you want up to like 4 full rotations.. the ride height adjustment is great, my car has no wheel gap at all, and I could go another 2 inches lower if I wanted, or raise up to stock.. I love it.. I guess we'll just have to see how they hold up.. but I heard it's only $110 to replace a blown strut.

btw... Ksports = D2's.. and Megan = APEXI EXV.. as you can see, the name brand makes the price higher.. because there's a good $300 difference between the megan and apexi, or at least used to be.

[thejapino]

Bah! KTS for lyphe!

I hear you, brotha, and it's great to see someone thinking critically on this. Let me toss this into the mix... there's a lot more to a damper/spring combo than the welds. Remember that the effectiveness of the coilover is wrapped up in the valving of the damper and the choice of an appropriate spring. Perhaps I've not been around cars long enough (doubtful), but I've NEVER seen a damper assembly break at the bracket. Most of the time, the kind of force that would do that is either absorbed by something else (like the chassis in a collision) or is cushioned by the design of the damper itself!

Regardless, I believe that often enough, we are paying for a name brand when we shell out extra cash for parts... but at the same time, we're also buying the assurance that hundreds, if not THOUSANDS, of like units have been used by similiarly-minded folks for often very similiar applications with some measurable degree of success.

well put...

[nismofly]

its well known that tein basic, jic, apexi evx arent any better

its when you get up to like apexi n1 evo that they really stand up for the name

you probably wont notice the difference on the street either, heck coilovers are overkill for street period

id rather buy my parts from companies that know suspension and have their products on many world class race cars, vs. companies that cater to the tuner market and are just making parts to make parts

[kietdude]

How about the life expectancy of the brand name vs. the entry level coilovers? I had a set of apexi's a while ago and they lasted 80,XXX miles or so. I would think the name brand coilovers would last longer, but who knows.

[Juujai]

i don't hate entry level coilovers. i just don't like the way they get manufacturered without any extensive testing or r&d. a lot of shock dynos reveal that many manufacturers like jic and megan have flat adjustments.

anything that doesn't move in the car i don't mind knock off. like body kits uh lights whatever. but anything that is mechanical i would spend a little extra for quality. imagine Megan Pistons... or Megan full counter crank shafts... i'd question the tolerances, materials, method of production..

[TrueSlide]

Remember have the people that comment on entry level coilovers have:

1. Never used them2. Are bandwagon jumpers.

They make up opinions they try to pass on as fact with no realistic experience on said product. They choose to dimish it and talk down on it because its the "cool" thing to do. These same people have no experience and DO NOT know what to look for in a product but a name. Quality means little to them, all that matters is a name. I do not trash talk a product unless I have experience with it, many others should take that same advice.

[ddgsxr504]

Remember have the people that comment on entry level coilovers have:

1. Never used them2. Are bandwagon jumpers.

They make up opinions they try to pass on as fact with no realistic experience on said product. They choose to dimish it and talk down on it because its the "cool" thing to do. These same people have no experience and DO NOT know what to look for in a product but a name. Quality means little to them, all that matters is a name. I do not trash talk a product unless I have experience with it, many others should take that same advice.

Thank you... that was the whole point of me making this thread. Just think of back in the day when Tein or the like first came out.... I'm sure that everyone was saying the same stuff about them.

Thanks guys for all your intelligent input... much props to NICO for having a mature conversation about this topic as we all know the direction it could have gone.

[nismofly]

i think my point is

megan and k sport arent being produced by any sort of suspension engineers, theyre just made to be coilovers, no real suspension tuning in mind

the same can be said for some of the lower end models from the brand names, but thats low end

the higher end stuff, no way

i dont see why paying $300 or so more for KTS is so hard when they are better

[Juujai]

i agree with fly. its not like kts is multiple times more expensive than ksport. even a person making $6.75 shouldn't have trouble coming up with an extra $300 dollars.

if you can't even squeeze a little cash here and there then cars as a hobby is a pretty bad idea. because things do happen that suck money out of nowhere. (blown tire, hitting pot holes, motor blow)

[SeVa-S13]

I've driven on KTS, Megan streets, Ksport/D2's, Tein HE's and some random used JIC crap a friend got off eBay from Malayasia or something.

The Megans were nice, but obviously not set up correctly but I still liked them.The Ksports squeaked like hell but on softer settings weren't too god awful to stand for a daily kinda deal so I liked that aspect.The HE's were set super stiff (drift ricer friend) and while bone-jarring, the car was set up very well and was quite impressive for a budget mobile.The JIC's seemed to offer a nice balance of stiffness and give and inspired confidence, for me.The KTS did what the JIC's did, but better. I plan to buy some myself if I have the cash when the time comes.

[StricNyne]

i want the mr suspension, i run right now kyb gr2 with eibach prokit springs, so when it blows i will be using, i deciding on those after waiting to hear horror stories about them and heard non, my worst fear to be honest with the mr was spring sag, and i heard nothing of the such

[Jookmasta]

i agree with the previous comment somewhere on the post on how people are quick to judge or spit out a name brand name product when they themself are just going off heresay. its like saying that altho that company may not have 3 different series of coilovers and haven't been around for decades that the coilovers arent up to par. i mean i remember back in the day when the tein's and jic had rust issues. obviously the quality has been stepped up but no reason to really think they are better than the others unless there was a comparison done by either urself or on a shock dyno.

this is one of the few areas i can gladly say that the 240 community has actually benefited from the popularity of the 240. look at how many options we have now with the choice in coilovers. about 4 years ago, the only choices were really just the brand names. not to mention that prices in coilovers have come down a bit since now there are coilovers which can be had for less than a g and still be up to par quality wise.

nonetheless, good thread cuz im sure plenty of people have had this question on their mind at one point or another.

[chmercer]

i dont speak from heresay when i say that d2, ksport, megan, tein, are pretty crappy coilovers. if you guys want to cry about getting your chinese droopy springs and snowmobile shocks made fun of, then whatever. KTS is the cheapest setup i would reccomend for anyone that still offers decent performance for the buck. anything less, why even bother.

[lrb_2000]

i dont speak from heresay when i say that d2, ksport, megan, tein, are pretty crappy coilovers. if you guys want to cry about getting your chinese droopy springs and snowmobile shocks made fun of, then whatever. KTS is the cheapest setup i would reccomend for anyone that still offers decent performance for the buck. anything less, why even bother.

Alright.. so what do I need to look for as far as things going wrong with my coilovers? I have Ksports.. so... what is this droopy springs and stuff? Because as far as i'm aware, beings that I drive my car everyday, they feel the same as they did 6 months ago.. and the roads around here are pretty crappy, I think i've caught air a few times.

[TrueSlide]

i dont speak from heresay when i say that d2, ksport, megan, tein, are pretty crappy coilovers. if you guys want to cry about getting your chinese droopy springs and snowmobile shocks made fun of, then whatever. KTS is the cheapest setup i would reccomend for anyone that still offers decent performance for the buck. anything less, why even bother.

He speaks from around the block experience. Around the block + "crappy" coilovers = bad.

I dont mind if people have anything negative to say, this jerk just has no proof, just his little bit of ride around experience. Unless you have experience on your ride or have actually tested the coilovers in a stress enviroment then dont say crap. Chr, we know none of those are good enough for you, but no one gives a **** and actually what performance activities have you done or put these coilovers through?

Why are t hey not good coils anyways, I mean Iam sure you had extreme knowledge and experience from a trip around the block.

[chmercer]

He speaks from around the block experience. Around the block + "crappy" coilovers = bad.

I dont mind if people have anything negative to say, this jerk just has no proof, just his little bit of ride around experience. Unless you have experience on your ride or have actually tested the coilovers in a stress enviroment then dont say crap. Chr, we know none of those are good enough for you, but no one gives a **** and actually what performance activities have you done or put these coilovers through?

Why are t hey not good coils anyways, I mean Iam sure you had extreme knowledge and experience from a trip around the block.

no proof? what ****ing proof do you want? they cost like 700 bucks and are made in crappy overseas factories. i dont give a **** what suspension feels like driving around the block. who cares, its street driving. ive driven many different suspension setups/carsk at many drift events and can speak for which ones are ****ty or not.

IF YOU HAVE ONLY OWNED 1 SET OF COILOVERS, STOP POSTING IN THIS THREAD.

all i hear on this forum is like "man insert crappy coilovers are so awesome (i switched from shock spring combo)"

well no **** its gonna be way better than shock spring, but that dosent make it a good coilover in comparison to other coilovers.

dude with ksports - the springs will start to droop later on, i would suggest getting some qa1 springs and having the dampers replaced with some inverted units. the shock brackets and mounts are OK as long as you dont break the aluminum rears.

in reply to the first post - JIC USA dampers are very crappy, also very poor customer service. JIC japan products are good.

whoever it is who said the aluminum brackets are stronger than steel is a fool. there is a reason zeal sells aluminum brackets for track only, steel for street. steel brackets are far more durable. multiple cases of broken aluminum shock cases when used on the street.

this thread should be moved to wheels/tires/suspension

[lrb_2000]

where would I look to buy the qa1 springs?

also, I didn't expect much from these coilovers, I knew I was only paying $800, and thats the quality I wanted.. I'm in no way comparing these to high end coilovers.. but for me being on a tight budget, or at least used to be, these are fine. I'm sure i'll upgrade in the future.

[ddgsxr504]

whoever it is who said the aluminum brackets are stronger than steel is a fool. there is a reason zeal sells aluminum brackets for track only, steel for street. steel brackets are far more durable. multiple cases of broken aluminum shock cases when used on the street.

All I said was that a one piece CNC MACHINED (MILLED) BLOCK OF 6061-T6 is stronger than WELDED STEEL BRACKETS that are paper @ss thin. FOOL.

This thead was never intended to make it seem like entry level coilovers are better than the proven ones... only that just because something isn't on par with a top brand manufacturer doesn't mean it's crap.

Wow you are always so F'ing angry all the time. Get laid or take a couple of F*cking Zanex or something.

[TrueSlide]

he is pissed because less and less people are jumping off his wagon of only JIC, Tein, Tanabe and other BIG JDM companies make the only good stuff, everything else is ****. Wasnt it proven awhile back Megan and Apexi N1 were made by the same freaking company, megans are just rebadaged and afforable.

[ddgsxr504]

Hey True what's I. Y. A. A. Y. A. S. ?? The only reason I ask is that since I am in the Marine Corps and I also work on the Aviation side of the house all of our ORDINANCE (bombs, guns. ect) guys have adopted that slogan and have used it as long as I have been here (7+ years) except theirs is a little different...

I Y A O Y A S... with the O obviously standing for ordinance so what does the (A) stand for?

[onosqv]

My friend bought ksports when they first came to the US for his integra - a year or 2 ago? One of the coilovers literally seized on him (height adjustment wise) after about 4-6 months. He can no longer adjust his height on the front passenger strut.

Also, all around the coilover has some rust/corrosion after only about 2-3 months.

Dampening is decent for an entry level coilover...

Needless to say, if you decide to buy one of those, get it teflon coated like the better brands have (this will end up making the coilover cost more...).

I have a set of KTS coilovers for about 9 months now. Adjusting height is as easy as when I first had the coilovers. The only thing to watch out for is make sure the front adjustment nuts are on tight (they are on the bottom of the car). I forgot to tighten them thinking they were tightened enough @ the factory and one of them are now missing. No rust anywhere... except the bolts that came w/ my height adjustable camber plates from KTS, those are BOO.

Performance wise it's freaking wicked. Took it to autox, almost no body roll on street settings (I also have other mods, so iono). Took it to rallyx (rally on "paved" dirt), it survived. Street it is stiff but you get used to it.

[ddgsxr504]

Where did the K sports rust at? they are pretty much all aluminum so any insight to your comment would be very appreciated so I know what to look for.

[nismofly]

Wasnt it proven awhile back Megan and Apexi N1 were made by the same freaking company, megans are just rebadaged and afforable.

its well known that tein basic, jic, apexi evx arent any better

its when you get up to like apexi n1 evo that they really stand up for the name

apex'i n1 evo is a world beating suspension setup, dont get the evx and the evo mixed up

again, the cheap stuff is coilovers to have coilovers, there is no suspension tuning thought of

example: megan uses the same damper for 8/6 street and 12/10 "track" coilovers, that should tell you something right there

its not the brand names were arguing over, its the units themselves...when have you ever seen us recommend tein basic or apex'i evx or something like that? never, it wont happen, because there is no difference between those and the megans or whatever

you wouldnt buy megan seats, or an ssautochrome turbo, why should suspension be any different? god knows its at least as important if not more than any other stuff that you refuse to buy cheap stuff for

if tein or some other supposed "reputable brand name" made seats and stuff that looks like the megan stuff, id shoot myself before i bought it just the same as the megans

its not that its *only* megan, k sport, etc...that are bad

its all coilovers in that range, regardless of brand name