Gt3076r-wg & Ca18det

[Bugatti]

Any experiences running that turbo in ca18det ? I have just rebuild my engine and i chose biggest internally wastegated Gt3076r-wg .64ar. During my break-in session i made few tests to see how laggy was it, it ran 13psi@4000rpm with second gear. Boost was set 13psi with avc-r. Engine is 1000km old now and i made second test, 23psi@4500rpm. That test almost melted my engine, afr about 15. So waiting now aftermarket engine management and tuning. My goal is get 400hp@crank

Mods:

-Accralite forged pistons 0,50oversized-Sten Parner motors h-profile steelrods(4340)-Jun intake/exhaust cam 264/9,3mm-Adjustable cam gears -Gt3076r-wg-1,2mm Trust headgasket-Stainless steel manifold-550cc Denso injectors-Front mounted intercooler-Megan racing fuel pressure regulator-3" system from turbo-Rpc-x Stage 2 Cluth-Apexí avc-r-PLX m-250 + 52mm gauge

Coming: Hestec+3bar map-sensor (finnish made) engine management

[c-rad]

Cool setup, but a couple questions-

First, why are you shooting for crank HP? Unless you remove your motor and put it on an engine dyno, there is no way to measure it. You can just guesstimate the crank HP through drivetrain loss calculations with wheel rated HP. So I assume you are looking at around 320-340 at the wheels?

That said, why not just go with one of the GT2871R's? Would have better spool characteristics and still give you the power you are looking for.

What type of fuel management were you using on the dyno?

From the pic, it looks like you were using the stock MAF which is maxed out around 230hp which is probably why you were leaning out so bad.

Last, given the name of some of those parts you listed, is it safe to assume you're Scandinavian?

[Bugatti]

Hi! Yes iam scandinavian, from Finland.

Car isn´t dynoed yet, ive got standard ecu mapped for my 550cc injectors, original maf is only my break-in session. After i get some $$$ i replace original ecu and maf with 3bar map-sensor.

I know one s13 in Finland with gt3071r-wg .64ar, almost same setup as mine except cams. 23psi@384hp from engine, torque was way over 450nm so it looks .64turbine is givin all and started to make backpressure, engine management was haltech. I build my new engine to handle so much power, which means every hp over 400 is welcome.

(Pretty hard write these messages, english just wont fit me )

[c-rad]

Hi! Yes iam scandinavian, from Finland.

Car isn´t dynoed yet, ive got standard ecu mapped for my 550cc injectors, original maf is only my break-in session. After i get some $$$ i replace original ecu and maf with 3bar map-sensor.

I know one s13 in Finland with gt3071r-wg .64ar, almost same setup as mine except cams. 23psi@384hp from engine, torque was way over 450nm so it looks .64turbine is givin all and started to make backpressure, engine management was haltech. I build my new engine to handle so much power, which means every hp over 400 is welcome.

(Pretty hard write these messages, english just wont fit me )

Cool, good luck with the setup. Hope it all works out well.

And don't worry about the English as I am sure it is a lot better than my Finnish.

[silvia_ca18det]

for 400hp u are going to want to upgrade them injectors a little bit!

[c-rad]

for 400hp u are going to want to upgrade them injectors a little bit!

He will be okay with 550s and 400 CRANK hp. 550s are good for around 350 to the wheels.

[boost_boy]

He will be okay with 550s and 400 CRANK hp. 550s are good for around 350 to the wheels.

No he won't! Those 550s on a properly tuned CA may yield you about 360 to the crank. I managed 312.5whp@18psi with a T3/T04B stage 1 with a .63 rear housing and a .50 front, MSD 50 lb/hr injectors, NISMO f/p regulator, SDS, and a relatively small, but good intercooler, and my injectors were at 102% duty cycle. Upgrade your injectors.

Dee

[c-rad]

No he won't! Those 550s on a properly tuned CA may yield you about 360 to the crank. I managed 312.5whp@18psi with a T3/T04B stage 1 with a .63 rear housing and a .50 front, MSD 50 lb/hr injectors, NISMO f/p regulator, SDS, and a relatively small, but good intercooler, and my injectors were at 102% duty cycle. Upgrade your injectors.

Dee

Weird, I didn't think the engine had anything to do with the amount of HP the injectors were rated for. The SR must have a better VE then since you can make 355whp with a 12:1 tune at stock pressure with 550s.

[Bugatti]

Another "legend" from Finland. Ca18det with Holset hx35, Hestec engine management, stock internals, stock cams and 503cc injectors. 2years ago this car was pulling 498hp@31psi. Last summer that car came dragging our airfield drags , with new owner. Engine was bit worn 400hp@31psi, same setup injectors were 503cc and fuel pressure 43psi at idle

But i have considered to change my 550s to 660 or 700, because i wont kill my fuel pump with high pressures.

Pic of that "badass" engine


Modified by Bugatti at 7:21 AM 3/15/2006

[Kouks]

Another note that I must throw out there is that the ca has top feed injectors, while sr is obviously side feed. In my learnings, it is that side feed injectors can run at 95 percent duty cycle safely, while top feed injectors like ours, SHOULD try to keep below 85-90 percent IDC.

Side feed injectors have fuel around them which keeps them cooler than traditional top feeds.

when you do the formula for injectors, it matters which you have to finish the equation.

Using the formula cc/10.5=lbs/hr(#lb.hr x # of injectors x safe duty cycle for top feed injectors) / BSFC(Brake Specific Fuel Consumption)

So you could run them at 100 percent, but these are safe limits.

GTR-444cc/10.5=42.3 lb/hr

(42.3 X 4 X .85) / .55 = 261.5whp

CA-370cc/10.5=35.2 lb/hr

(35.2 X 4 X .85) / .55 = 217.6whp

Might as well post 550ccs too, hold on.....

550/10.5=52.4

(52.4 x 4 x .85) /.55 = 324whp

Dont blow your **** up! remember this is at 85 percent duty cycle....

[CA19DET]

well if the guy above who made 498 or whatever with 505cc's is doing something we dont know about

impressive none the less..

i think the GT3076-R will own the GT2871-R with the same internal wastegates GT25 0.64 A/R but if it was externally gated the GT3076-R will really start to show its true colors, especially is used with teh T3 .63 A/R turbiine with external gate..

13psi by 4000rpm is really really good,

i would like to make 18psi at 4000rpm on a GT2871-R-15 (which is a little smaller trim than the regular GT2871-R on the compressor side (52 vs 54 or 56) = faster spool/less top power)

that GT3076R would start to really amke power at about 20-24pis, BUT the internal WG is going to be the problem, i think the backpresure will over power the actuator and you'll get bad creeep and surging etc,

good luck, and post dynos.

and of coourse get soem engine managment, 15:1 AFR's will mest even the forgest of forgies,
Modified by CA19DET at 11:04 AM 3/15/2006

[float_6969]

I think you could do it with 550's, but you'd have to bump the fuel pressure WAY up to do it. I've never been a big fan of that, as it just seems like a bandaid...

[Bugatti]

i really hope 550s can make it, but if not its time to buy bigger ones. Hmm maybe i can buy t3 turbine housing, but first i wanna see how it makes on internally wastegated.

[Bugatti]

Update!

Aftermarket ecu was too much for my wallet, so i ordered z32maf,700cc injectors and it will be tuned by our own nissan club guy. I also went to dyno without tuning, Pretty good results i think. Only 6500rpm and afr was 14,17 and boost only 11,45psi.

it ran 13psi@4000rpm with second gear.

And that is bull****, after my brake in sessions. i have noticed this: under 4500rpm nothing happens! and after 4500rpm, Turbo kick pretty nice even low boost.

Dyno sheet: (messy picture) but 257hv@6500rpm 0,79bar/11,45psi

[iliketocrash]

how do you like your RPC clutch? do they even make a clutch specifically for the ca18det? or was it special order?

[boost_boy]

Another note that I must throw out there is that the ca has top feed injectors, while sr is obviously side feed. In my learnings, it is that side feed injectors can run at 95 percent duty cycle safely, while top feed injectors like ours, SHOULD try to keep below 85-90 percent IDC.

Side feed injectors have fuel around them which keeps them cooler than traditional top feeds.

when you do the formula for injectors, it matters which you have to finish the equation.

Using the formula cc/10.5=lbs/hr(#lb.hr x # of injectors x safe duty cycle for top feed injectors) / BSFC(Brake Specific Fuel Consumption)

So you could run them at 100 percent, but these are safe limits.

GTR-444cc/10.5=42.3 lb/hr

(42.3 X 4 X .85) / .55 = 261.5whp

CA-370cc/10.5=35.2 lb/hr

(35.2 X 4 X .85) / .55 = 217.6whp

Might as well post 550ccs too, hold on.....

550/10.5=52.4

(52.4 x 4 x .85) /.55 = 324whp

Dont blow your **** up! remember this is at 85 percent duty cycle....

I think when I made 312.5whp @18psi back in 1992, my nismo fuel pressure regulator was failing, thus causing the injectors to work so hard. I just went back to the stock regulator for a while and it worked perfectly. The 700cc injectors you're thinking of using Bugatti, should be enough for your quest!

Dee

[Bugatti]

how do you like your RPC clutch? do they even make a clutch specifically for the ca18det? or was it special order?

I bought it 2years ago, For sintered its pretty easy clutch. But if i remember right this clutch is discontinued and are now special order stuff. In Finland we had about 2month ago group buy for those and 10order was minimum. im thinking change my Rpc to Rps sintered.

I think when I made 312.5whp @18psi back in 1992, my nismo fuel pressure regulator was failing, thus causing the injectors to work so hard. I just went back to the stock regulator for a while and it worked perfectly. The 700cc injectors you're thinking of using Bugatti, should be enough for your quest!

Dee

Thanks for information! With 700cc i should get pretty big numbers, and 400should not be a problem. I really dont have even hp-limit, every hp over 400 is +++, next i concentrate head, intakemanifold and exhaust manifold. Also think to buy T3 turbine housing, if atp-turbo sells those without buying new turbo.