What turbo for X horsepower? (chart inside)

[Joe]

here is a chart one of our members(Bronze MFP) came across on an aussie skyline forum. its important to remember these are for ESTIMATED horsepower numbers dont take them very litterally. just use it for a general idea of what you are going for.

1st Manufacturer is HKS (duh)2nd is Greddy 3rd is APEXi4th is KKK5th is power enterprises

if any of those are incorrect please let me know.

[Dano]

nice find Joe

-Dan

[Joe]

nice find Joe

-Dan

i did all the easy work dont thank me

[krayton]

Sort of on topic. Off the local boards a turbo expert did this research on HKS turbos: (all info is from him and his findings)

Well I decided to cross reference the HKS line of signiture turbos to show you how outragious thier prices are. Yes, I know everyone knows they are ultra expensive, but not everyone knows exactly whats involved here. This just makes me puke!

TO4S($2800) = 60-1/P-trim($800) Thats right. The TO4S is nothing more than your average 60-1, that can be purchased anywhere. I have seen them for as low as $550. But $800 gets you a nicely built unit. $2000 difference. Huh!

TO4R($2900) = T-67/P-trim($900) Yes, the mighty TO4R. Again, a very nice T67 can be had for the cheap price of $900, and will work the same as the legendary TO4R. All this while saving $2000.

TO4Z($3500) = T-67/P-trim with a fancy compressor cover($1000) OK, this is where HKS gets really rediculous. The TO4Z is a ball bearing TO4R with a fancy compressor cover that doesnt increase power in any way. So, get a T-67/P-trim and I'll polish the compressor for ya, for 100 bucks. That brings it to $1000 without the ball bearing option.(Innovative may be able to make something custom in Ball bearing for well under $3500) A $2500 difference!! This is the biggest rip off of the bunch. Simply astonishing what HKS can get away with...Astonishing!

T51R KAI($3200-$3900) = Smaller GT42R($1400-$2400) This is where things got a little tricky. Perhaps some of you already know, but I didnt, and had to figure it out myself with the specs. The almighty T51's that everyone gets a stiffy over is a GT42R. The difference in price is between the standard bearing and ball bearing options. This is the smaller GT42R measuring 94mm at the exducer. A $1500-$1800 difference. Hey Matt! Did you know you had a T51R KAI on your car?

T51R SPL($3400-$4100) = Bigger GT42R($1400-$2400) Same as above but the T51R SPL is the bigger GT42R with the 102mm exducer compressor wheel. Again, the difference is between standard bearing and ball bearing. The problem with this one, is that most places sell the small or bgi GT42R for the same price. HKS sells them for more. So the difference between the 2 goes up by $200 ($1700-$2000 difference) So if you go and buy the bad boy T51R SPL ball bearing turbo, you just wasted $2000....(and people actaully do)

So there you have it folks. What makes this so sad, is that HKS didnt come up with any of these turbos. They didnt put any R&D into them. They are Garrett turbos....some of them are off the shelf. And I cant imagin what they are paying for turbos. I know about what some shops are paying for turbos/parts. If HKS is the same, they have about a 600% markup on turbos. Friggen 600%??? I cant belive they arent in a lawsuit for price gouging. I dont know about anybody else, but HKS can suck a fatty D ...HARD!!

[Sky240PWR]

wow!!...I have a pt67, they say they put out 780hp on their sight(haven't put it on yet) so thats equal to the T51R right??.......they range from $1000-1200!!(pt67)
Modified by Sky240PWR at 5:33 AM 11/8/2005

[bmadd2402]

you know, the price is jacked up, but I can imagine why. HKS buys the turbos from garrett here in the states, then R&D's them in Japan in their cars, then packages them as HKS, while paying garrett to do so, as well as their racing programs and advertising. THEN we in the states buy them from a market where EVERYTHING is more expensive, and wonder why.

[Bluefire]

Krayton, your post is very misleading. Those prices you posted for the garrett equivalents are not prices for ball bearing turbos. While ALL the HKS turbos are full ballbearing. You should have at least posted ballbearing prices. Also Although very similar, HKS turbos are different from there garrett equivalents. Like bmadd2402 said, the turbos are built by garrett to HKS's specs. Even garrett themselves cannot sell HKS spec'd turbos.

But you were right on the money with the fact that they are overpriced. But I guess some people are willing to pay extra for the added response...

-Bluefire

[bmadd2402]

disregard
Modified by bmadd2402 at 9:42 AM 10/30/2008

[Sil240]

where would a GT-30R fit in?Im probably just blind, but i didnt see it. Also does anyone know when it would hit full boost on a RB20 aprrox 15psi?

[DRIFTERx]

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/...x.pdf

this should answer most of the "what size turbo?" questions

[Chaos the Xile]

With HKS you are buying mostly the name with a purchase

[Masterdebater]

their real name is HK$. u pay for the name when u get hks parts.

[SeVa-S13]

their real name is HK$. u pay for the name when u get hks parts.

It's true, but I feel so much baller knowing that random jap newspaper is wrapped around a sweet HKS bit I paid too much for.

Edit: ^^^^ for shipping cost of HKS cast manifold

[Nismo241]

HKS turbo's are WAAAYYYY different than a Garrett unit. It's not just the size of the turbine and compressor wheels that make a turbo. The way the housings are designed is what makes an HKS turbo and HKS turbo. I'd gladly pay for an HKS turbo if I could afford it, but for now, I'll stick with garrett.

[Sky80]

Lol, this thread is full of soo much "well i heard this about HKS turbos" it blows my mind... And krayton who is this master of all masters turbo expert? This is rediculous

[Bluefire]

HOLY CRAP way to revive a thread from 2 YEARS AGO...

[Joe]

[QUOTE=Sky80]Lol, this thread is full of soo much "well i heard this about HKS turbos" it blows my mind... And krayton who is this master of all masters turbo expert? This is rediculous[/QUOTE

this "master" has forgotten more about turbos than ill ever know. he has the worlds quickest dodge stealth and has tuned some of our friends cars to ridiculous, and reliable numbers.

so you are ridiculous, i vouch trevor's knowledge and his "master" status 100%

[themadscientist]

HKS turbo's are WAAAYYYY different than a Garrett unit. It's not just the size of the turbine and compressor wheels that make a turbo. The way the housings are designed is what makes an HKS turbo and HKS turbo. I'd gladly pay for an HKS turbo if I could afford it, but for now, I'll stick with garrett.

Keep telling yourself that. My HKS turbo says garrett right on it. Keep beleiving that hype, Hosokawa needs a new mercedes.

[Dnight07]

what do you guys think about turbonetics gtk's series any good ??, do you guys think they are worth it and crack up to be all that and a bag of chips? planning in buying a bad A turbo for my rb. please let me know what the best thing would be on the street and track hp goal 700whp

[Sky80]

Lol, this thread is full of soo much "well i heard this about HKS turbos" it blows my mind... And krayton who is this master of all masters turbo expert? This is rediculous[/QUOTE

this "master" has forgotten more about turbos than ill ever know. he has the worlds quickest dodge stealth and has tuned some of our friends cars to ridiculous, and reliable numbers.

so you are ridiculous, i vouch trevor's knowledge and his "master" status 100%

Trevor who? You act like i live next door

[steaminhotryce]

Thanks for the chart. This will come in handy for my friend. =)

[krayton]

Trevor who? You act like i live next door

Trevor is the one that I posted all the info from. Hes tuned and built some crazy cars. I'm just passing the info along. But whatever you wanna believe.

[Kalypso]

this is sick

[Booztd 3]

Easy tip....no confusing turbo names, etc

Take the amount of air the compressor will flow in lb/min and multiply that by 10. That is an acceptable crank HP rating the engine/turbo will make together.

Take 85% of that number and you'll get a pretty close estimate of what WHP you'll get

Example

Turbo flows 66lb/min

66*10 = 660 Crank HP

66*.85 = 560rwhp

You may be able to create more HP, however you risk at running outside of the compressors efficiency range which at that point the air is useless

[Cjmartz2k]

That's the equation I use. That also, of course, is a ballpark estimate of the max of the turbo. Depending on motor/compressor design, you might have to run retarded high boost to get that.

[Booztd 3]

That's the equation I use. That also, of course, is a ballpark estimate of the max of the turbo. Depending on motor/compressor design, you might have to run retarded high boost to get that.

That equation is valid for any engine with a 90-95% VE which is most 'stock-ish' compression, overhead cam designs these days

The max HP is likely what you will see with the boost cranked, because the compressor is rated for the max that it will flow

[Cjmartz2k]

Interesting. I'd heard figures before on different engine's volumetric efficiency, but they were no where near that. They were like 60 or 70% on honda's, which are supposed to have awesome VE. All this was just second hand BS'ing while drinking over p0ker, so it's with a grain of salt. One thing my car guy points out is that is what the COMPRESSOR can make, not the whole turbo. If you have a really restrictive wheel or ex housing compared to the compressor, you might not get that either.

How accurate do you think that chart is? I've heard very different numbers for some of those turbo's. I didn't think the TO4s/r made that much?

[bmadd2402]

you know who prolly knows the VE for an RB25DET? HKS. You know who prolly doesn't? Garrett. You know who should if you are buying a garrett turbo? The end user. What you are paying for is an engineer to do the math of selecting a suitable turbine for an engine. IE, the GT3071. Bad a$$ turbo. For a honda. Websites say it is a 450 HP turbo, yes, but not on an RB. If you want to know before you buy your turbo how it is going to perform, either ask someone who has that turbo and emulate them, or go with a bolt on solution from a reputable company with a racing team, engineers and what not. and this is a free market.... of course there is a mark-up. thats why there is yahoo.com.jp. just my two pennies. BTW, way to raise the dead.

[Cjmartz2k]

If you think HKS is researching the VE of RB's and tailoring their turbo's to suit (even though they sell those turbo's for a wide range of motors) then you've watched 2 Fast 2 Furious one to many times. They make there money because (a) people don't know any better and (b) there are so many JDM tight drift spec nut swingers out there promoting there crap. They sell over priced, re-badged crap.

[bades]

nic that helps me out alot